Top Law Schools

I hope I don't get attacked on this board like I was at other boards for asking this.

I live in Southern CA and my GPA is a low 2.8, mainly because I didn't do very good my freshman and sophomore years, but I never got below a 3.0 during my junior and senior years, though that won't matter because my GPA is still a 2.8.

Any chance I can get into a school such as UCLA, USC, or Pepperdine if I was able to get around a 165 on the LSAT? Other people called me stupid for even asking this question. I only bring up those schools because I live near these schools and would prefer to stay in the area. I know Southwestern is another school in the area.

I just got off the phone with a tutor and he was telling me that going to a T3 and doing extremely well will help you with landing a job, though others have said to avoid T3 and T4's at all costs.

I'm black btw. I've been told that my race would be an advantage when applying to any law school. Thanks for any input given.

Poke around with http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com and http://www.mylsn.info to see what your chances will be with certain number combinations. Being an under-represented minority (URM) for law school admissions purposes can mean that your results might be pretty unpredictable, so it's tough to assess your odds.

Just FYI: USC and UCLA are the only good law schools in LA, the rest are pretty terrible and should either be shut down or at least consolidated. I wouldn't go to Pepperdine.

strikefirefall wrote:I hope I don't get attacked on this board like I was at other boards for asking this.

I live in Southern CA and my GPA is a low 2.8, mainly because I didn't do very good my freshman and sophomore years, but I never got below a 3.0 during my junior and senior years, though that won't matter because my GPA is still a 2.8.

Any chance I can get into a school such as UCLA, USC, or Pepperdine if I was able to get around a 165 on the LSAT? Other people called me stupid for even asking this question. I only bring up those schools because I live near these schools and would prefer to stay in the area. I know Southwestern is another school in the area.

I just got off the phone with a tutor and he was telling me that going to a T3 and doing extremely well will help you with landing a job, though others have said to avoid T3 and T4's at all costs.

I'm black btw. I've been told that my race would be an advantage when applying to any law school. Thanks for any input given.

I feel like I can speak to this and give some advice as someone who applied this past cycle with a very similar GPA and a 172 LSAT. I was rejected from USC and placed on the waitlist at UCLA. I didn't apply to Pepperdine though, so I can't offer any insight there. A 165 LSAT will likely not cut it, even as a URM you will probably need to score mid-high 170s in order to have a shot

USC is possible (http://lawschoolnumbers.com/musicdiplomacy) but definitely not a sure thing. As BigZuck mentioned, play around with those sites and see what results people with your numbers & status have been getting. I imagine the URM board may be helpful too.

BigZuck wrote:Poke around with http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com and http://www.mylsn.info to see what your chances will be with certain number combinations. Being an under-represented minority (URM) for law school admissions purposes can mean that your results might be pretty unpredictable, so it's tough to assess your odds.

Just FYI: USC and UCLA are the only good law schools in LA, the rest are pretty terrible and should either be shut down or at least consolidated. I wouldn't go to Pepperdine.

I actually thought Pepperdine was good. I also forgot to mention Loyola which I heard was decent. Thanks for the heads up.

Any chance I'd be able to gain admission into UCLA or USC? It's a longshot, I know.

I've been to that site before and did look around. Saw some pretty interesting stuff.

Being a URM (under-represented minority) will definitely help your low uGPA. It also makes your cycle more unpredictable. As a URM, you should get into Pepperdine and other schools in that range (40-60 in USNWR) and can reach for UCLA and USC. Don't go to any school ranked below Pepperdine. Study your ass off for the LSAT and push yourself into 168-170 range to guarantee yourself a good school with money.

I poked around mylsn.info for you and it doesn't offer much guidance. Not many LSN users have your profile, so it makes predictability poor. Score as high as you can on the LSAT and apply to a lot of places.

HRomanus wrote:Being a URM (under-represented minority) will definitely help your low uGPA. It also makes your cycle more unpredictable. As a URM, you should get into Pepperdine and other schools in that range (40-60 in USNWR) and can reach for UCLA and USC. Don't go to any school ranked below Pepperdine. Study your ass off for the LSAT and push yourself into 168-170 range to guarantee yourself a good school with money.

I poked around mylsn.info for you and it doesn't offer much guidance. Not many LSN users have your profile, so it makes predictability poor. Score as high as you can on the LSAT and apply to a lot of places.

Do not attend Pepperdine without a full ride with no stips (which you will not get, I don't think).

Retake the LSAT, get a 17x, apply broadly. Cal has (rarely) taken applicants with strange numbers if they have a good story, although they tend to lean more towards taking high gpa/low lsat people.

As a big splitter and AA, you will have an unpredictable cycle. USC and UCLA are possible, but you need to wait until you hit 170+ on your prep tests. A 165 won't cut it at USC/UCLA (and if you happen to slide in, it'll be at sticker) and under no circumstances should you attend a T3 or T4 in Cali.

HRomanus wrote:Being a URM (under-represented minority) will definitely help your low uGPA. It also makes your cycle more unpredictable. As a URM, you should get into Pepperdine and other schools in that range (40-60 in USNWR) and can reach for UCLA and USC. Don't go to any school ranked below Pepperdine. Study your ass off for the LSAT and push yourself into 168-170 range to guarantee yourself a good school with money.

I poked around mylsn.info for you and it doesn't offer much guidance. Not many LSN users have your profile, so it makes predictability poor. Score as high as you can on the LSAT and apply to a lot of places.

I'm going to apply to a lot of schools across the country. I just wanted to stay in CA because it's somewhere I'd like to live for the rest of my life.

But if going back to the east coast (where I'm from) means I can get into a good school, I'd be more than willing to do it.

Pepperdine is ranked around #61. So I shouldn't look at any school ranked lower?

strikefirefall wrote:

HRomanus wrote:Being a URM (under-represented minority) will definitely help your low uGPA. It also makes your cycle more unpredictable. As a URM, you should get into Pepperdine and other schools in that range (40-60 in USNWR) and can reach for UCLA and USC. Don't go to any school ranked below Pepperdine. Study your ass off for the LSAT and push yourself into 168-170 range to guarantee yourself a good school with money.

I poked around mylsn.info for you and it doesn't offer much guidance. Not many LSN users have your profile, so it makes predictability poor. Score as high as you can on the LSAT and apply to a lot of places.

I'm going to apply to a lot of schools across the country. I just wanted to stay in CA because it's somewhere I'd like to live for the rest of my life.

But if going back to the east coast (where I'm from) means I can get into a good school, I'd be more than willing to do it.

Are you still in college or are you working? A few more points and work experience would probably get you money from Northwestern. UVA would also probably take you with a few more points. Retake and apply broadly, i'm begging you.

phillywc wrote:Are you still in college or are you working? A few more points and work experience would probably get you money from Northwestern. UVA would also probably take you with a few more points. Retake and apply broadly, i'm begging you.

I don't think he's taken the LSAT yet or applied anywhere.

HRomanus wrote:

phillywc wrote:Are you still in college or are you working? A few more points and work experience would probably get you money from Northwestern. UVA would also probably take you with a few more points. Retake and apply broadly, i'm begging you.

I don't think he's taken the LSAT yet or applied anywhere.

Whoops, RC fail. Wait to take it until you can score higher then.

phillywc wrote:

HRomanus wrote:

phillywc wrote:Are you still in college or are you working? A few more points and work experience would probably get you money from Northwestern. UVA would also probably take you with a few more points. Retake and apply broadly, i'm begging you.

I don't think he's taken the LSAT yet or applied anywhere.

Whoops, RC fail. Wait to take it until you can score higher then.

TLS: where retake is always TCR.

HRomanus wrote:

phillywc wrote:

HRomanus wrote:

phillywc wrote:Are you still in college or are you working? A few more points and work experience would probably get you money from Northwestern. UVA would also probably take you with a few more points. Retake and apply broadly, i'm begging you.

I don't think he's taken the LSAT yet or applied anywhere.

Whoops, RC fail. Wait to take it until you can score higher then.

TLS: where retake is always TCR.

I'm just working. Never taken the LSAT before. Finished college last year.

HRomanus wrote:

phillywc wrote:

HRomanus wrote:

phillywc wrote:
I don't think he's taken the LSAT yet or applied anywhere.

Whoops, RC fail. Wait to take it until you can score higher then.

TLS: where retake is always TCR.

I'm just working. Never taken the LSAT before. Finished college last year.

In that case, don't limit yourself. The LSAT is extremely learnable, even if you get a low score on your first cold practice test. I scored a 153 on my first practice test and scored a 170 on the real thing. It's hard work, but if you really apply yourself, you can do it.

I think with a 170+ and URM status, you have a really decent shot at UCLA and USC. I would apply through the T10-T20, if you don't have a problem with leaving the state (I would strongly encourage that you broaden your horizons). Don't go to Pepperdine without a sizeable scholarship. Under no circumstances should you go to a T3 or a T4. Maybe if your family is loaded and you have a full scholarship and don't mind wasting your time.

*Edit*

Fucked up the quoting. Whatever, you get it.

I have no problem leaving the state. I just recently moved to LA and love it here, so it would be a preference to stay here, but I'm willing to go anywhere. I'm about to hire a tutor I just spoke to over the phone. I plan to study everyday. I work security and 2 of my shifts are overnight, so I have 6 hours during work to study out of an 8 hr shift.

strikefirefall wrote:I have no problem leaving the state. I just recently moved to LA and love it here, so it would be a preference to stay here, but I'm willing to go anywhere. I'm about to hire a tutor I just spoke to over the phone. I plan to study everyday. I work security and 2 of my shifts are overnight, so I have 6 hours during work to study out of an 8 hr shift.

This is good. Check out the lsat prep form. Many people here improved greatly without a tutor or class.

irvine is in play if you want small law in oc with no debt at the right lsat score

strikefirefall wrote:I have no problem leaving the state. I just recently moved to LA and love it here, so it would be a preference to stay here, but I'm willing to go anywhere. I'm about to hire a tutor I just spoke to over the phone. I plan to study everyday. I work security and 2 of my shifts are overnight, so I have 6 hours during work to study out of an 8 hr shift.

I was in a somewhat similar situation to you (couldn't afford, nor had the time, for LSAT prep classes). I highly recommend the PowerScore prep materials. I was starting at a 162 and it bounced me up high enough to score a full ride from a decent regional, which is all I needed for my career goals. I didn't have quite the time you do (I was working in a FT legal job that demanded my attention, so my study time was relegated to nights and weekends), but you should be able to work wonders with enough time and dedication. You have a bigger GPA deficit to overcome than I did, but URM status and a 170+ should definitely make you competitive.

Good luck!

I've heard of the powerscore materials. Might give them a try

Just wanted to say thank you to all of you for your insight. Nice to find a forum where people actually try to help you instead of bashing you for asking a question. I appreciate all of your help.

strikefirefall wrote:
Pepperdine is ranked around #61. So I shouldn't look at any school ranked lower?

Don't get too obsessed with the rankings. They fluctuate wildly year to year and don't mean much past a certain point. Look around on LawSchoolTransparency (http://www.lawschooltransparency.com) and see which schools actually send graduates into decent jobs and use that as your criteria.

Also remember that most law schools are regional: they're strongest in the local area. So if you wanted to work in North Carolina (just a random example) it would be way better to go to UNC or Wake Forest with money over, say, Boston College, even though BC is ranked higher.

TheSpanishMain wrote:

strikefirefall wrote:
Pepperdine is ranked around #61. So I shouldn't look at any school ranked lower?

Don't get too obsessed with the rankings. They fluctuate wildly year to year and don't mean much past a certain point. Look around on LawSchoolTransparency (http://www.lawschooltransparency.com) and see which schools actually send graduates into decent jobs and use that as your criteria.

Also remember that most law schools are regional: they're strongest in the local area. So if you wanted to work in North Carolina (just a random example) it would be way better to go to UNC or Wake Forest with money over, say, Boston College, even though BC is ranked higher.

Yeah, so if I wanted to live in CA for the long term, it would be best to look into schools in CA, AZ, and the surrounding states.

But what if I miraculously did very well on my LSAT, and was able to gain acceptance into a top school in the east coast? Should I ignore it even though I want to live in CA? Or would it not matter in that type of situation?

strikefirefall wrote:

TheSpanishMain wrote:

strikefirefall wrote:
Pepperdine is ranked around #61. So I shouldn't look at any school ranked lower?

Don't get too obsessed with the rankings. They fluctuate wildly year to year and don't mean much past a certain point. Look around on LawSchoolTransparency (http://www.lawschooltransparency.com) and see which schools actually send graduates into decent jobs and use that as your criteria.

Also remember that most law schools are regional: they're strongest in the local area. So if you wanted to work in North Carolina (just a random example) it would be way better to go to UNC or Wake Forest with money over, say, Boston College, even though BC is ranked higher.

Yeah, so if I wanted to live in CA for the long term, it would be best to look into schools in CA, AZ, and the surrounding states.

But what if I miraculously did very well on my LSAT, and was able to gain acceptance into a top school in the east coast? Should I ignore it even though I want to live in CA? Or would it not matter in that type of situation?

Depends on how strong your ties are to CA and what you mean by "top." If you grew up in Cali, attended UG there, or have 2+ years of work experience, you'll have a much better chance at getting back. If by "top" you mean the top 14 schools, then yes you have a decent shot. The difference between USC/UCLA and a school like Cornell/Duke/Northwestern, is that you'll almost certainly have an easier time placing in Cali from UCLA/USC, but your job prospects will generally be much better from Duke/Northwestern/Cornell. At USC/UCLA, getting the type of job you want (assuming biglaw) will be the struggle. From D/N/C, it'll be much easier to find a good job, but that job may well be in NYC, so the bigger struggle will be making sure that good job is in Cali.

I mention D/C/N as opposed to other T14s because those are probably your reach schools with a 2.8, but this discussion doesn't matter until you have an LSAT. Go study and good luck.

Agreed. If by "top" you mean T14, sure, although you'd probably be paying sticker and I tend to think that's dumb bordering on suicidal.

Bottom line, though, this is all speculation until you have an actual LSAT score. Put your energy into the test and come back when you have a score.

i had a low 3.3 LSAC gpa (my school GPA was higher) and around a 165 LSAT and was accepted to ND on >half ride scholarship, accepted to UMich, WL at Harvard/Northwestern, and full ride to Santa Clara/Northeastern. Not black or any special snowflake. Not sure how I managed any of that.