Should I Retake? 176/3.1 Forum

Splitter1415 · Post by **Splitter1415** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:33 pm

Hello,

I started a thread earlier in What Are My Chances? the other day and received some useful comments. I am wondering if I should study very hard and retake hoping to get a 180. Is that a waste of time? I am stuck in NYC and do not have an option of applying to law schools outside of NYC. My numbers probably will not get me into NYU or Columbia. I believe I will probably have a decent chance at Fordham, though. What do you think? Will getting a 180 give me a chance to get into NYU? I am sad there is no school between NYU and Fordham in NYC.

I am attaching a link to the thread I started earlier below.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 9&t=227783

dardardelight · Post by **dardardelight** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:43 pm

I mean, if you applied early to NYU it might be possible. Somebody got into NYU with a 3.2 / 176 (ED) this past year. Do you have any softs going for you? Did you attend a top undergrad? Are you absolutely , no matter what , stuck in NYC? Fordham with $$ might not be a bad option. I'd say the difference between 176 and a 178 is pretty negligible, but I'm just a 0L .. so correct me if I'm wrong, people.

I suppose it's up to you to toil for a 176 > LSAT score in June or September. I'm a prospective splitter too (3.3 GPA) and I know if I get a 176, there's no way I'm retaking

BankruptMe · Post by **BankruptMe** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:45 pm

I would apply to NYU, Columbia, Fordham, CUNY (you said you want public interest, you will get tuition free fore than likely) and Cornell if you can look outside of the city, but in the state

dardardelight · Post by **dardardelight** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:52 pm

Sorry.. Just read your story that's attached in the other link. You'll definitely make for a compelling applicant and I suppose one could put you in the "non-traditional" category given all your experiences. You mentioned a greencard .. are you a URM ? If you are, then I'd say you have a terrific shot at NYU ED . Even if you're not, I'd definitely ED to NYU and apply to all the other lower tiered NYC schools like fordham/brooklyn/cordoza/ and maybe even hofstra . You'll be sure to get some $$ from those schools.

And I'm with you .. I really wish there was a law school in between fordham and nyu in NYC haha

SnakySalmon · Post by **SnakySalmon** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:57 pm

You have a SHOT at getting into NYU now. It's not great, but it's a bit better than it looks, because your story is genuinely compelling. Either way, you're over their 75th LSAT percentile by three points, so I don't think a couple more is probably going to be a deal breaker either way. If you think you can do better you might as well retake, but you should absolutely apply either way.

Splitter1415 · Post by **Splitter1415** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:36 pm

dardardelight,

No, I am not attending a top undergrad. I really have no softs. I have held a small exhibition and my photographs have been published in a big jazz magazine, but it's not a big deal and has nothing to do with law schools. Yes, I got a greencard through marriage two years ago. I am Asian and we are everywhere! I will apply to Brooklyn and Cardozo for sure. Thank you for your advice and good luck with your LSAT!

BankruptMe,

Oops, I forgot about CUNY. I actually go to one of the CUNY schools right now and a professor recommended CUNY Law. Unfortunately, Cornell is too far. My spouse does not want me to move. I probably will not waste the application fees on Columbia, but will definitely apply to Fordham. Thank you.

SnakySalmon,

So many people around me discouraged me from applying to NYU. I guess it wouldn't hurt to apply expecting a rejection letter? I really don't know if I can do better. The reading section is pretty hard for me. I will study for a while and think about it. Thank you.

Splitter1415 · Post by **Splitter1415** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:43 pm

So far, it's 5 vs 1. More votes and comments are welcome.

BankruptMe · Post by **BankruptMe** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:49 pm

Splitter1415 wrote:dardardelight,

No, I am not attending a top undergrad. I really have no softs. I have held a small exhibition and my photographs have been published in a big jazz magazine, but it's not a big deal and has nothing to do with law schools. Yes, I got a greencard through marriage two years ago. I am Asian and we are everywhere! I will apply to Brooklyn and Cardozo for sure. Thank you for your advice and good luck with your LSAT!

BankruptMe,

Oops, I forgot about CUNY. I actually go to one of the CUNY schools right now and a professor recommended CUNY Law. Unfortunately, Cornell is too far. My spouse does not want me to move. I probably will not waste the application fees on Columbia, but will definitely apply to Fordham. Thank you.

SnakySalmon,

So many people around me discouraged me from applying to NYU. I guess it wouldn't hurt to apply expecting a rejection letter? I really don't know if I can do better. The reading section is pretty hard for me. I will study for a while and think about it. Thank you.

email the admissions departmets (including columbia), say my name is xxxxxx I would like to apply to __________ for the 20xx year. My UGPA is 3.1 and my LSAT is 176. Would it be possible to attain a fee waiver.

also sign up for candidate referral service on LSAC. Schools will send you fee waivers

Splitter1415 · Post by **Splitter1415** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:02 pm

BankruptMe,

I am embarrassed to send an email like that to NYU, Columbia and Fordham with my numbers, but will try with all other law schools in NYC. Thank you.

HRomanus · Post by **HRomanus** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:07 pm

Splitter1415 wrote:BankruptMe,

I am embarrassed to send an email like that to NYU, Columbia and Fordham with my numbers, but will try with all other law schools in NYC. Thank you.

What? Why would you be embarrassed? The worst that they can do is say no.

EDIT: I seriously wonder about the usefulness of retaking. You are already at an elite score and the odds you can increase it are much lower than the odds you will decrease it. Though, as the poster below me noted, you will double your odds of admission if you can do so. That being said, the odds are very, very low that you will get a 180. Only 0.1% of test takers earn this score.

onguyen228 · Post by **onguyen228** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:08 pm

Well, according to the law school predictor, with your numbers now you have a 35% chance for NYU and a 25% chance at Columbia. If you do get a 180 on your next LSAT the chances will be increased to 60% and 54% for NYU and Columbia, respectively. I don't know how much of a boost will your unique story give you in admission, but it is worth a try to increase your LSAT score. You could also just do Fordham for now and play the transfer game later. From the datas I've seen regarding transfers, it looks like Columbia accepts quite a bit, but that means no $.

Cicero76 · Post by **Cicero76** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:11 pm

No you should not retake and yes you should apply to NYU. Your chances aren't even that bad.

180 is not better than 176 for most practical purposes

BankruptMe · Post by **BankruptMe** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:14 pm

Splitter1415 wrote:BankruptMe,

I am embarrassed to send an email like that to NYU, Columbia and Fordham with my numbers, but will try with all other law schools in NYC. Thank you.

What is there to be embarrassed about? Why would you pay money for applications when you can get them for free? Also, that 176 is enticing.

My good friend got free applications from Havard on down, had a 160-165, so I am sure you can get free applications.

UnicornHunter · Post by **UnicornHunter** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:15 pm

Splitter1415 wrote:BankruptMe,

I am embarrassed to send an email like that to NYU, Columbia and Fordham with my numbers, but will try with all other law schools in NYC. Thank you.

What? Your LSAT is one of the top scores in the country. In this environment of low applications, you have a good (better than 50/50) shot at NYU, and a non-0 shot at Columbia. Send them a fee waiver request early on in the cycle (like, 2 weeks before it begins) and get your apps in early.

Also, not to give personal advice, but your career earnings trajectory is radically different from a school like Cornell or Northwestern than it is from a school like Fordham or CUNY Law. If, for some reason, you don't get into NYU/Columbia, you are leaving hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars on the table by not applying to the rest of the T14. Make sure your spouse understands that before they get to decide that you can't move out of NYC for three years (keep in mind, you'd be able to spend your summers in the city too).

BankruptMe · Post by **BankruptMe** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:22 pm

AfghanTourist wrote:
Splitter1415 wrote:BankruptMe,

I am embarrassed to send an email like that to NYU, Columbia and Fordham with my numbers, but will try with all other law schools in NYC. Thank you.
What? Your LSAT is one of the top scores in the country. In this environment of low applications, you have a good (better than 50/50) shot at NYU, and a non-0 shot at Columbia. Send them a fee waiver request early on in the cycle (like, 2 weeks before it begins) and get your apps in early.

Also, not to give personal advice, but your career earnings trajectory is radically different from a school like Cornell or Northwestern than it is from a school like Fordham or CUNY Law. If, for some reason, you don't get into NYU/Columbia, you are leaving hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars on the table by not applying to the rest of the T14. Make sure your spouse understands that before they get to decide that you can't move out of NYC for three years (keep in mind, you'd be able to spend your summers in the city too).

I fully agree with this. Penn is about 3 hours from the city and in a major city, Chicago is in a major city as well as NW, and GULC is in DC.

So there are opportunities (and lower cost of living) if you go to school in one of those cities. I feel like if you show your spouse "Hey, I got into one of the top law schools in the country with XXX,XXX in scholarship money, meaning we do not need debt, they would be open to moving. If the spouse doesn't want to move to the West Coast or even Chicago, that is understandable. However, Cornell and Penn are not more than 4 hours away from NYC.

pardon my bad english.

It is worth at least a conversation

SnakySalmon · Post by **SnakySalmon** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:26 pm

AfghanTourist wrote:
Splitter1415 wrote:BankruptMe,

I am embarrassed to send an email like that to NYU, Columbia and Fordham with my numbers, but will try with all other law schools in NYC. Thank you.
What? Your LSAT is one of the top scores in the country. In this environment of low applications, you have a good (better than 50/50) shot at NYU, and a non-0 shot at Columbia. Send them a fee waiver request early on in the cycle (like, 2 weeks before it begins) and get your apps in early.

Also, not to give personal advice, but your career earnings trajectory is radically different from a school like Cornell or Northwestern than it is from a school like Fordham or CUNY Law. If, for some reason, you don't get into NYU/Columbia, you are leaving hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars on the table by not applying to the rest of the T14. Make sure your spouse understands that before they get to decide that you can't move out of NYC for three years (keep in mind, you'd be able to spend your summers in the city too).

Agree with all. I'm not sure what the people around you are saying, but you got one of the top 5-600 LSAT scores in the country. Multiple T-14s will want you, and some will want you a lot. If you seriously want to work in human rights, you owe it to yourself to go to a school that will open that door for you.

TheodoreKGB · Post by **TheodoreKGB** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:31 pm

Splitter1415 · Post by **Splitter1415** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:37 pm

HRomanus,

I do not want them to think I am naive. I thought schools only gave fee waivers to students that they would absolutely want. You're probably right. I wait tables full time and take 9 credits in school, so I do not have much time to study for the LSAT again. I will see how I do on one of the practice tests next week. Thank you.

ongyuen228,

I have heard that law school predictor does not work for splitters. I don't want to think much about transfer games at the moment. I am not even 100% sure Fordham will accept me. They seem to like well-rounded students. Thank you for your advice.

Cicero76,

Really? I thought a 180 would be much better compared to a 176. Thank you.

BankruptMe,

The reasons? First, my numbers are not great. Second, I am not extremely poor. Now that you have encouraged me, I will definitely email some law schools. Thank you.

AfghanTourist,

My dream is to work for an organization like human rights watch or UN, so I know I will have a better chance coming out from NYU/Columbia. I will just be happy offering assistance to underserved people in the U.S, though. My spouse has a great job here and is still in undergrad. His work pays for his school. I have no idea when he will graduate. He really wants me to stay in NYC with him. I understand what you're saying, though. I need to talk to him again. Thank you.

BankruptMe,

Thank you again. My spouse will not move with me and feel very sad if I move away. Of course, I want to stay in NYC as well, but the fact that there is no school ranked between NYU and Fordham bothers me.

Splitter1415 · Post by **Splitter1415** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:46 pm

SnakySalmon,

People around me think I got lucky on the LSAT. Maybe they think I am dumb because of my poor English. I don't know much about how things work in this country and did not do well in political science classes. I do want to work in human rights. Maybe I'm just dreaming, but I want to try. I will look at other top schools I have never looked into. Thank you.

TheodoreKGB,

Do you think I should ED at NYU? Thank you.

SplitMyPants · Post by **SplitMyPants** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:58 pm

Were you not already aiming for a 180 when you got your 176? My point is that once you're 175+, a retake has a risk of decreasing your score more so than for other ranges. You could study your ass off again and end up with "only" a 177 or a 175.

Splitter1415 · Post by **Splitter1415** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:04 pm

SplitMyPants,

No, I was not aiming for a 180. I thought I would get a 165 or a little less. I was studying extensively for the TOEFL at the time, so I guess that helped me score better in the reading section. You are absolutely right. I do not want to end up with a 170. Thank you.

SnakySalmon · Post by **SnakySalmon** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:09 pm

Splitter1415 wrote:SplitMyPants,

No, I was not aiming for a 180. I thought I would get a 165 or a little less. I was studying extensively for the TOEFL at the time, so I guess that helped me score better in the reading section. You are absolutely right. I do not want to end up with a 170. Thank you.

Jesus Christ. If you seriously got an 176 without studying for it, you are probably an actual genius. Go to a good school.

SplitMyPants · Post by **SplitMyPants** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:10 pm

Splitter1415 wrote:SplitMyPants,

No, I was not aiming for a 180. I thought I would get a 165 or a little less. I was studying extensively for the TOEFL at the time, so I guess that helped me score better in the reading section. You are absolutely right. I do not want to end up with a 170. Thank you.

Well then damn, congrats on your score! I bet that was quite a pleasant surprise!!!

I'll PM you my LSN profile. My gpa is higher, but it is still sub-3.5. As others have noted, do not discount the impact your great LSAT will have on your cycle. Apply to a range of great options.

TheodoreKGB · Post by **TheodoreKGB** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:13 pm

Mullens · Post by **Mullens** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:15 pm

Even if for nothing other than to negotiate scholarships, you should apply to T20 schools not in NYC.

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