Why Biglaw? Forum

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Mal Reynolds

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by Mal Reynolds » Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:23 pm

AT9 wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:
AT9 wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:So where did you end up.
In retrospect, that post definitely made it seem like I've ended up somewhere, which I haven't. I'm still a lowly 0L. IF I do well enough to have biglaw as an option, perhaps the money/exit options will seem too good to pass up once I'm actually in that position. But from my perspective looking forward, I don't want to force myself into biglaw knowing that I will probably hate it.
Oh so you're a 0L. Thanks for your valuable contribution.
No problem. I'm here to offer more critical insight whenever you wish.
No I was being sarcastic. You are providing nothing of value.

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AT9

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by AT9 » Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:31 pm

I can't tell if you're still being sarcastic or if you didn't catch my counter sarcasm.

Anyway, I'll return to the thread in a few years when my asshole rank is high enough to post something valuable.

Mal Reynolds

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by Mal Reynolds » Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:49 pm

AT9 wrote:I can't tell if you're still being sarcastic or if you didn't catch my counter sarcasm.

Anyway, I'll return to the thread in a few years when my asshole rank is high enough to post something valuable.
So if you were being sarcastic that means you agree you have nothing valuable to post?

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AT9

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by AT9 » Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:53 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:
AT9 wrote:I can't tell if you're still being sarcastic or if you didn't catch my counter sarcasm.

Anyway, I'll return to the thread in a few years when my asshole rank is high enough to post something valuable.
So if you were being sarcastic that means you agree you have nothing valuable to post?
Sarcastically playing along is all.

Edit: In all seriousness, just offering my perspective as someone who found myself having to work through the question of this thread recently. My thought process may be useful in some way to other 0Ls facing that question or to dean Perez. Hopefully I'll be posting here a few years from now and can offer my perspective as someone looking back.

Danger Zone

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by Danger Zone » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:08 pm

AT9 wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:
AT9 wrote:I can't tell if you're still being sarcastic or if you didn't catch my counter sarcasm.

Anyway, I'll return to the thread in a few years when my asshole rank is high enough to post something valuable.
So if you were being sarcastic that means you agree you have nothing valuable to post?
Sarcastically playing along is all.

Edit: In all seriousness, just offering my perspective as someone who found myself having to work through the question of this thread recently. My thought process may be useful in some way to other 0Ls facing that question or to dean Perez. Hopefully I'll be posting here a few years from now and can offer my perspective as someone looking back.
Can you stop posting until then?

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AT9

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by AT9 » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:15 pm

Danger Zone wrote:
AT9 wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:
AT9 wrote:I can't tell if you're still being sarcastic or if you didn't catch my counter sarcasm.

Anyway, I'll return to the thread in a few years when my asshole rank is high enough to post something valuable.
So if you were being sarcastic that means you agree you have nothing valuable to post?
Sarcastically playing along is all.

Edit: In all seriousness, just offering my perspective as someone who found myself having to work through the question of this thread recently. My thought process may be useful in some way to other 0Ls facing that question or to dean Perez. Hopefully I'll be posting here a few years from now and can offer my perspective as someone looking back.
Can you stop posting until then?
If it annoys you guys, no.

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patogordo

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by patogordo » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:36 pm

what is with the sudden influx of fourth graders on tls

was there a field trip or something

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84651846190

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by 84651846190 » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:45 am

Wait, are there still people signing up to go to Texas Tech law school? TTU law school is three years of foregone wages plus six figures of debt for a HIGHER chance of unemployment than exists in the general population. What kind of mentally ill person would still consider this a wise investment?

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MCL Law Dean

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by MCL Law Dean » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:07 am

SPerez wrote:My intention for this thread wasn't to crap on people interested in making a good living as a lawyer. Where I come from on this is that from my experience, if you pick a job just for the money it will never be enough. If you already know you want to be a lawyer, there's nothing wrong with trying to maximize your income doing something you want to do. But I worry a lot of people are looking at Biglaw only for the money, which I think leads to people having a horrible experience, leaving the profession, and bad-mouthing it to prospective applicants. I'm glad that others responded to my questions with their reasons so that future applicants can at least get an idea of some of the things they should be considering. Because I'm young enough to know how to use the internet but also old enough to remember the days before the internet, I've seen how it has changed law school applicants. There's so much "data" out there, many have trouble finding the "information". The internet tends to distill all the nuance out of advice, which can lead to bad decisions just like having no information. I think the responses to my question here have helped add to the "information" out there. I'm learning, too, and that's why I come here.

My intention of this thread also was not to rehash the same old "law school sucks/don't go" discussion. There are plenty of other places where that discussion is happening so I'm not going to help hijack my own thread. Maybe one of these days I'll finally get around to hosting a Google Hangout for TLS'ers and then we can get into my opinions on the state of legal education, etc. If you want to ask me questions in my other thread, feel free to post there, too.

Excuse me if we get back to the OP. Two recently published books make the claim that the legal profession has changed (Steven Harper’s The Lawyer Bubble: A Profession in Crisis) or is changing (Richard Susskind’s Tomorrow’s Lawyers: An Introduction to Your Future). The books are interesting because they discuss the types of changes that are broad, sweeping, and dramatic. In suitable lawyer fashion, both books are unfailingly analytical. They both also argue that the old order is collapsing. The Lawyer Bubble is backward looking and laments the legacy we have squandered, while Tomorrow’s Lawyers is future oriented and offers fairly specific prescriptive advice, particularly to those lawyers entering the legal field at a time when the number of traditional (what I call “artisan”) legal jobs is shrinking.

THE LAWYER BUBBLE: A PROFESSION IN CRISIS. By Steven J.
Harper. New York: Basic Books. 2013. Pp. xvi, 208. $26.99.

TOMORROW’S LAWYERS: AN INTRODUCTION TO YOUR FUTURE. By Richard Susskind. Oxford: Oxford University Press. 2013. Pp. ix, 165. $18.95.

Or if you only have time/interest to read a review, see:

http://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php ... 23&EXT=pdf

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NYSprague

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by NYSprague » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:24 am

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:Wait, are there still people signing up to go to Texas Tech law school? TTU law school is three years of foregone wages plus six figures of debt for a HIGHER chance of unemployment than exists in the general population. What kind of mentally ill person would still consider this a wise investment?
Yesterday ATL had an article about a 2011 Texas Tech law grad who is working as a nanny. She is licensed in New Jersey and Pennsylvania.

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IAFG

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by IAFG » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:42 am

NYSprague wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:Wait, are there still people signing up to go to Texas Tech law school? TTU law school is three years of foregone wages plus six figures of debt for a HIGHER chance of unemployment than exists in the general population. What kind of mentally ill person would still consider this a wise investment?
Yesterday ATL had an article about a 2011 Texas Tech law grad who is working as a nanny. She is licensed in New Jersey and Pennsylvania.
I would hire the shit out of her too

Should I post nanny listings in Symplicity

jk148706

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by jk148706 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:49 am

NYSprague wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:Wait, are there still people signing up to go to Texas Tech law school? TTU law school is three years of foregone wages plus six figures of debt for a HIGHER chance of unemployment than exists in the general population. What kind of mentally ill person would still consider this a wise investment?
Yesterday ATL had an article about a 2011 Texas Tech law grad who is working as a nanny. She is licensed in New Jersey and Pennsylvania.
Yeah this Texas Tech grad:

http://abovethelaw.com/2014/04/lawyer-w ... abysitter/

I can't imagine why she might prefer Biglaw

Danger Zone

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by Danger Zone » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:10 am

Did anyone else notice she got an LL.M. in Agricultural and Food Law from the University of Arkansas? I didn't even realize that was a real thing.

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Mal Reynolds

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by Mal Reynolds » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:34 am

TTU. What a terrible fucking school.

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DoubleChecks

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by DoubleChecks » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:56 am

Mal Reynolds wrote:
AT9 wrote:I can't tell if you're still being sarcastic or if you didn't catch my counter sarcasm.

Anyway, I'll return to the thread in a few years when my asshole rank is high enough to post something valuable.
So if you were being sarcastic that means you agree you have nothing valuable to post?
Haha who are you Mal Reynolds? Your account is old enough, and your post count high enough that you must have had your username changed in the years between when I frequented TLS more often and now, because I sure as HELL would have remembered you from before lolol, for better or for worse.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by A. Nony Mouse » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:58 am

Mal Reynolds wrote:TTU. What a terrible fucking school.
Well, for getting a job in Pennsylvania or New Jersey, anyway. Not saying Texas Tech is at all spectacular, but she's gotta bear at least some of the responsibility for trying to go from TTU to PA/NJ.

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ggocat

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by ggocat » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:02 am

Danger Zone wrote:Did anyone else notice she got an LL.M. in Agricultural and Food Law from the University of Arkansas? I didn't even realize that was a real thing.
Classmate of mine did this after graduating from my TTT. He ended up at the USDA with an apparently nice government job.

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mx23250

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by mx23250 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:29 am

SPerez wrote:
  • Have HORRIBLE hours. 2200 billable hour requirement = 50 /hr work weeks minimum for 50 weeks.
This would actually seem like a vacation to what I've been doing for the last 6 years as a PhD student/scientist working 80+ hrs/week in the lab, including almost every weekend (this doesn't even include the time I had to spend on classes, studying, writing papers, etc.). In fact, during my 5 years as a PhD student I think I only took about 3 weeks of actual vacation time so that I could finish in 5 yrs rather than the 6 or 7 yr norm. 50hrs/week with up to 2 weeks of vacation per year will seem like a breeze :)

vlshort3955

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by vlshort3955 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:44 am

"I know being a parent helps me deal with stress, because on no given day is my job the most important thing in my life." I love this.
IAFG wrote:On the point of it not being "family-friendly," I gotta say I think being a mom actually helps me. I think people take it easier on me because I have family obligations. I know being a parent helps me deal with stress, because on no given day is my job the most important thing in my life. Of course being a junior doesn't make me a better parent, but being a parent probably makes me a saner, happier first year.

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Blindmelon

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by Blindmelon » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:06 pm

mx23250 wrote:
SPerez wrote:
  • Have HORRIBLE hours. 2200 billable hour requirement = 50 /hr work weeks minimum for 50 weeks.
This would actually seem like a vacation to what I've been doing for the last 6 years as a PhD student/scientist working 80+ hrs/week in the lab, including almost every weekend (this doesn't even include the time I had to spend on classes, studying, writing papers, etc.). In fact, during my 5 years as a PhD student I think I only took about 3 weeks of actual vacation time so that I could finish in 5 yrs rather than the 6 or 7 yr norm. 50hrs/week with up to 2 weeks of vacation per year will seem like a breeze :)
You say that now, but what you count as "work" time in the lab is different than work time at a bigfirm. I used to work 50-60 hours a work in my old job, but this is way, way worse. Start taking your hours and back out every minute you aren't actually engaged in work. All bathroom time, getting a cup of water, quick banter with coworker, lunch, any meetings that go over general info and not specific to a certain project, any time spent dealing with IT issues, time spent learning something you should already know, and your 50 hour week turns into a 70 hour week and you only get 50 hours of credit (which will drive you mad). Also factor in that PhD work is intelectually engaging, much of biglaw work is mundane and boring making focus harder (and therefore billing hours harder). Plus the stress of messing up something small and mundane (which you will) makes it that much worse.

minnbills

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by minnbills » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:35 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
You say that now, but what you count as "work" time in the lab is different than work time at a bigfirm. I used to work 50-60 hours a work in my old job, but this is way, way worse. Start taking your hours and back out every minute you aren't actually engaged in work. All bathroom time, getting a cup of water, quick banter with coworker, lunch, any meetings that go over general info and not specific to a certain project, any time spent dealing with IT issues, time spent learning something you should already know, and your 50 hour week turns into a 70 hour week and you only get 50 hours of credit (which will drive you mad). Also factor in that PhD work is intelectually engaging, much of biglaw work is mundane and boring making focus harder (and therefore billing hours harder). Plus the stress of messing up something small and mundane (which you will) makes it that much worse.
Is anyone else getting sick of the biglaw sob story?

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by A. Nony Mouse » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:19 pm

More sick of people who've never worked as biglaw associates calling current biglaw associates whiners or special snowflakes, actually.

bk1

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by bk1 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:33 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:More sick of people who've never worked as biglaw associates calling current biglaw associates whiners or special snowflakes, actually.
This, though I do understand why people are apt to respond with "#firstworldproblems."

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ph14

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by ph14 » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:33 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:More sick of people who've never worked as biglaw associates calling current biglaw associates whiners or special snowflakes, actually.
Agreed.

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El Pollito

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Re: Why Biglaw?

Post by El Pollito » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:36 pm

bk1 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:More sick of people who've never worked as biglaw associates calling current biglaw associates whiners or special snowflakes, actually.
This, though I do understand why people are apt to respond with "#firstworldproblems."
It's a law school message board, what other types of problems are we supposed to have?

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