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Do I have a reasonable shot? (for a good school)
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:42 pm
by PittGuy21
I am currently a junior at a state university and I was wondering if anyone could chance me on getting into a good school. I have only recently developed an interest in law and I want to test it first by working as a patent agent for a year or two. After my freshmen year I was doing great, I had a 3.8 GPA taking rigorous biochemistry coursework, I participated in undergraduate research and was a member of a few clubs. But then hit a rough patch in my life. Shortly after my sophomore year began I started to develop schizophrenia. Thinking I had a personality disorder, I tried to get help from the school psychologists, they just passed me off and told me to call anyone on a list of psychiatrists who were all in there 80's.
Long story short I ended up a psychiatric facility the weekend before finals began. I was told by my school that I had a year to take all of my finals from that semester because of my hospitalization. After leaving the hospital I decided to go back to school for the spring semester and full course load consisting of two hard classes and two easier classes. That semester was a disaster. The medication I was on causes something called "poverty of thought" which makes it difficult to think abstractly as well as to form complete sentences. By the time the semester was over and I had made up all my finals I had a GPA of 2.3 for that year. Which leaves my current GPA at 3.05. (I have been taking my junior year off). I am switching my major to computer engineering and will do everything to get my GPA up.
My question would be: with my special circumstances and assuming I can raise my GPA, is there anything I could do to get into a top law school? I can probably do well on my LSAT as I am good at standardized and IQ tests, and I have some good recommendations but will that be enough to get me into a good law school?
Re: Do I have a reasonable shot? (for a good school)
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:45 pm
by Typhoon24
It is largely contingent on your LSAT performance. A 17X score could mean an acceptance to one of the lower top-14 schools.
Re: Do I have a reasonable shot? (for a good school)
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:15 pm
by PittGuy21
That's a relief. If I can't get into a T14 though would Santa Clara be good? They're ranked very high in IP.
Re: Do I have a reasonable shot? (for a good school)
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:35 pm
by jkhalfa
Well, you have a quite reasonable explanation for those bad grades. I'm sure that falls under "medical emergency" or something, and you can probably spin that into one hell of a personal statement too. Not a lot of applicants face genuine "adversity" like a mental illness, so you'll stand out.
As long as you invest the time needed to get a very good LSAT, you'll be a standard STEM splitter with a great life story, which translates into a good shot at lower T14.
PS: Also a Pitt guy, and I've never heard anything good about our counseling center. You'd think a university with a top med school and a mental hospital right on campus could find competent mental health people, but apparently not.
Re: Do I have a reasonable shot? (for a good school)
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:43 pm
by thevuch
dude a good LSAT score will do things for that you cant even really wrap your head around right now. break 170 and everything changes
Re: Do I have a reasonable shot? (for a good school)
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:14 pm
by rad lulz
d
Re: Do I have a reasonable shot? (for a good school)
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:17 pm
by brotherdarkness
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Re: Do I have a reasonable shot? (for a good school)
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:20 pm
by RodneyRuxin
PittGuy21 wrote: After my freshmen year I was doing great, I had a 3.8 GPA taking rigorous biochemistry coursework, I participated in undergraduate research and was a member of a few clubs. B
See you at Chicago
Re: Do I have a reasonable shot? (for a good school)
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:50 pm
by SFrost
I think it's a little funny people think overcoming mental illness is a boost to an application.
It's more of a gigantic red flag. Sorry, folks.
Re: Do I have a reasonable shot? (for a good school)
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:07 pm
by jkhalfa
SFrost wrote:I think it's a little funny people think overcoming mental illness is a boost to an application.
It's more of a gigantic red flag. Sorry, folks.
Can you support this claim? A lot of people with mental disorders go on to live completely normal or even high achieving lives, so I don't see why it would be a red flag. Especially schizophrenia... I don't think that's the kind of disease you can fake or exaggerate. IIRC, it's mostly genetic and/or the result of intense drug use.
And I'm not saying "I wish I had schizophrenia so I could outperform my numbers" or anything, but as long as OP's grades recover I think he has a valid medical excuse for his GPA and personal statement material better than the average T14 applicant's.
Re: Do I have a reasonable shot? (for a good school)
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:20 pm
by SFrost
jkhalfa wrote:SFrost wrote:I think it's a little funny people think overcoming mental illness is a boost to an application.
It's more of a gigantic red flag. Sorry, folks.
Can you support this claim? A lot of people with mental disorders go on to live completely normal or even high achieving lives, so I don't see why it would be a red flag. Especially schizophrenia... I don't think that's the kind of disease you can fake or exaggerate. IIRC, it's mostly genetic and/or the result of intense drug use.
And I'm not saying "I wish I had schizophrenia so I could outperform my numbers" or anything, but as long as OP's grades recover I think he has a valid medical excuse for his GPA and personal statement material better than the average T14 applicant's.
You're in a different world if you think schizophrenia is an application boost.
Re: Do I have a reasonable shot? (for a good school)
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:29 pm
by jkhalfa
SFrost wrote:jkhalfa wrote:SFrost wrote:I think it's a little funny people think overcoming mental illness is a boost to an application.
It's more of a gigantic red flag. Sorry, folks.
Can you support this claim? A lot of people with mental disorders go on to live completely normal or even high achieving lives, so I don't see why it would be a red flag. Especially schizophrenia... I don't think that's the kind of disease you can fake or exaggerate. IIRC, it's mostly genetic and/or the result of intense drug use.
And I'm not saying "I wish I had schizophrenia so I could outperform my numbers" or anything, but as long as OP's grades recover I think he has a valid medical excuse for his GPA and personal statement material better than the average T14 applicant's.
You're in a different world if you think schizophrenia is an application boost.
So you're saying you can't support your claim?
I never said it was a boost. It's a good medical excuse for a GPA hit, akin to getting hit by a car or something. It is also a challenge that OP will have to overcome, and his conquering of that obstacle could serve as a strong foundation for a personal statement. In any case, he's definitely not going to be excluded from a top school just because of diagnosis, which is what you seem to imply.
Re: Do I have a reasonable shot? (for a good school)
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:39 pm
by SFrost
jkhalfa wrote:SFrost wrote:jkhalfa wrote:SFrost wrote:I think it's a little funny people think overcoming mental illness is a boost to an application.
It's more of a gigantic red flag. Sorry, folks.
Can you support this claim? A lot of people with mental disorders go on to live completely normal or even high achieving lives, so I don't see why it would be a red flag. Especially schizophrenia... I don't think that's the kind of disease you can fake or exaggerate. IIRC, it's mostly genetic and/or the result of intense drug use.
And I'm not saying "I wish I had schizophrenia so I could outperform my numbers" or anything, but as long as OP's grades recover I think he has a valid medical excuse for his GPA and personal statement material better than the average T14 applicant's.
You're in a different world if you think schizophrenia is an application boost.
So you're saying you can't support your claim?
I never said it was a boost. It's a good medical excuse for a GPA hit, akin to getting hit by a car or something. It is also a challenge that OP will have to overcome, and his conquering of that obstacle could serve as a strong foundation for a personal statement. In any case, he's definitely not going to be excluded from a top school just because of diagnosis, which is what you seem to imply.
Perhaps we have different perceptions related to the severity of a schizophrenia diagnosis. It's a lifelong illness. This isn't at all comparable to being hit by a car and recovering. Many people regard severe mental illness as a ticking time bomb. There's significant stigma attached to mental illness. In particular, when the illness is severe enough to require a year away from school and hospitalization, I do think the OP will be excluded from many schools on that basis alone.
Of course, I'm not aware of any national database tracking this, so it's all just my opinion. If you think it's no big deal maybe an adcomm will as well.
Re: Do I have a reasonable shot? (for a good school)
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:22 am
by North
Just go into computer engineering dude. Why you would go to LS after hacking it in that major is beyond me.
Re: Do I have a reasonable shot? (for a good school)
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:34 am
by jbagelboy
Schizophrenia... I mean, I'd get that shit on lock (if possible) before trying to become licensed to represent the interests of others in court.
Re: Do I have a reasonable shot? (for a good school)
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:55 am
by Volake
OP, congratulations on managing your condition. You've shown a lot of strength in not allowing this materialization to keep you from pursuing the future you've wanted.
The good news is that you have a clear explanation for a decline in academic performance. If possible, you're going to want to establish a positive record that shows that that year was an anomaly that does not reflect your ability, but rather the medication you were on. Assuming you can raise your GPA, a lot of adcomms will, to some extent, consider you as if you didn't have that shitty year. Unfortunately, they still will need to use your raw numbers in their reporting to the ABA, so they will inevitably consider your raw scores. A strong LSAT would help you there.
Other posters have mentioned the prejudice factor against those with mental illness, particularly schizophrenia. Unfortunately, this prejudice is prominent and it's hard to know who might hold this against you. Anecdotally, I know of another transfer student whose disclosure of mental health history, including a diagnosis of schizophrenia, did not prevent him from being offered acceptance to multiple T6 schools.
In any case, best of luck in whatever future you choose to pursue. Feel free to pm me if you have any other questions on the matter.
Re: Do I have a reasonable shot? (for a good school)
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:26 am
by esther0123
PittGuy21 wrote:I am currently a junior at a state university and I was wondering if anyone could chance me on getting into a good school. I have only recently developed an interest in law and I want to test it first by working as a patent agent for a year or two. After my freshmen year I was doing great, I had a 3.8 GPA taking rigorous biochemistry coursework, I participated in undergraduate research and was a member of a few clubs. But then hit a rough patch in my life. Shortly after my sophomore year began I started to develop schizophrenia. Thinking I had a personality disorder, I tried to get help from the school psychologists, they just passed me off and told me to call anyone on a list of psychiatrists who were all in there 80's.
Long story short I ended up a psychiatric facility the weekend before finals began. I was told by my school that I had a year to take all of my finals from that semester because of my hospitalization. After leaving the hospital I decided to go back to school for the spring semester and full course load consisting of two hard classes and two easier classes. That semester was a disaster. The medication I was on causes something called "poverty of thought" which makes it difficult to think abstractly as well as to form complete sentences. By the time the semester was over and I had made up all my finals I had a GPA of 2.3 for that year. Which leaves my current GPA at 3.05. (I have been taking my junior year off). I am switching my major to computer engineering and will do everything to get my GPA up.
My question would be: with my special circumstances and assuming I can raise my GPA, is there anything I could do to get into a top law school? I can probably do well on my LSAT as I am good at standardized and IQ tests, and I have some good recommendations but will that be enough to get me into a good law school?
Major congrats to you for keeping so strong. But this makes me so sad... while I am totally with you in terms of how meds can affect your performance significantly, the fact that your diagnosis was schizophrenia might cause some concerns for admissions. My understanding is that it is a life long condition, but as long as you can substantiate that it can be managed and will remain stable, perhaps the negative stigma can be lessened.
I think the issue with schizophrenia is not that it's been
mistakenly known as "split personality disorder," but the fact that it is a life-long disorder and can potentially escalate dramatically. Also stress can be a trigger too... so this is something that you could look into for your own health as well as for admissions purposes.
Best of luck to you, and you've clearly shown much strength and drive so far!
Re: Do I have a reasonable shot? (for a good school)
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:49 am
by Br3v
Typhoon24 wrote:It is largely contingent on your LSAT performance. A 17X score could mean an acceptance to one of the lower top-14 schools.
Re: Do I have a reasonable shot? (for a good school)
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:51 am
by oblitigate
jkhalfa wrote:SFrost wrote:jkhalfa wrote:SFrost wrote:I think it's a little funny people think overcoming mental illness is a boost to an application.
It's more of a gigantic red flag. Sorry, folks.
Can you support this claim? A lot of people with mental disorders go on to live completely normal or even high achieving lives, so I don't see why it would be a red flag. Especially schizophrenia... I don't think that's the kind of disease you can fake or exaggerate. IIRC, it's mostly genetic and/or the result of intense drug use.
And I'm not saying "I wish I had schizophrenia so I could outperform my numbers" or anything, but as long as OP's grades recover I think he has a valid medical excuse for his GPA and personal statement material better than the average T14 applicant's.
You're in a different world if you think schizophrenia is an application boost.
So you're saying you can't support your claim?
I never said it was a boost. It's a good medical excuse for a GPA hit, akin to getting hit by a car or something. It is also a challenge that OP will have to overcome, and his conquering of that obstacle could serve as a strong foundation for a personal statement. In any case, he's definitely not going to be excluded from a top school just because of diagnosis, which is what you seem to imply.
Schizophrenia requires bar app disclosure I believe
I remember the TX app seemed to imply it bars an applicant from the bar. A bar bar if you will
So doesn't make sense that a law sch would give this
Re: Do I have a reasonable shot? (for a good school)
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:57 am
by oblitigate
esther0123 wrote:PittGuy21 wrote:I am currently a junior at a state university and I was wondering if anyone could chance me on getting into a good school. I have only recently developed an interest in law and I want to test it first by working as a patent agent for a year or two. After my freshmen year I was doing great, I had a 3.8 GPA taking rigorous biochemistry coursework, I participated in undergraduate research and was a member of a few clubs. But then hit a rough patch in my life. Shortly after my sophomore year began I started to develop schizophrenia. Thinking I had a personality disorder, I tried to get help from the school psychologists, they just passed me off and told me to call anyone on a list of psychiatrists who were all in there 80's.
Long story short I ended up a psychiatric facility the weekend before finals began. I was told by my school that I had a year to take all of my finals from that semester because of my hospitalization. After leaving the hospital I decided to go back to school for the spring semester and full course load consisting of two hard classes and two easier classes. That semester was a disaster. The medication I was on causes something called "poverty of thought" which makes it difficult to think abstractly as well as to form complete sentences. By the time the semester was over and I had made up all my finals I had a GPA of 2.3 for that year. Which leaves my current GPA at 3.05. (I have been taking my junior year off). I am switching my major to computer engineering and will do everything to get my GPA up.
My question would be: with my special circumstances and assuming I can raise my GPA, is there anything I could do to get into a top law school? I can probably do well on my LSAT as I am good at standardized and IQ tests, and I have some good recommendations but will that be enough to get me into a good law school?
Major congrats to you for keeping so strong. But this makes me so sad... while I am totally with you in terms of how meds can affect your performance significantly, the fact that your diagnosis was schizophrenia might cause some concerns for admissions. My understanding is that it is a life long condition, but as long as you can substantiate that it can be managed and will remain stable, perhaps the negative stigma can be lessened.
I think the issue with schizophrenia is not that it's been
mistakenly known as "split personality disorder," but the fact that it is a life-long disorder and can potentially escalate dramatically. Also stress can be a trigger too... so this is something that you could look into for your own health as well as for admissions purposes.
Best of luck to you, and you've clearly shown much strength and drive so far!
Didn't mean to sound insensitive OP, I didn't realize you have schizophrenia. I would double check which states (if any) this may complicate practicing law in. Good look brother (or sistah)
Re: Do I have a reasonable shot? (for a good school)
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:02 am
by potterdam
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Re: Do I have a reasonable shot? (for a good school)
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:27 am
by malleus discentium
Have you looked into retroactive withdrawal for the grades you got during your medical situation?
Re: Do I have a reasonable shot? (for a good school)
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:35 am
by mountaintime
Your grades aren't the problem. You better make sure you can get licensed before spending all that time and money on LS.