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Graduated UG in 2012 with subpar grades to put it lightly. No valid excuse other than immaturity. Held two jobs since then- one working for a non for profit in the education field and another for a tech company in a marketing role. What score should I be shooting for to make LS worthwhile? Taking my first test in June. Took a cold diagnostic (timed) and received a 158. Going to self study using the LSAT Trainer as my primary resource. Also, I'm looking to work in the NYC market. Big law would be nice but not end all be all. Also due to UG debt, scholarships would probably be a priority over prestige. Thanks!

I sincerely thank you for being brave enough to do what I could not (until now), which is to admit having a GPA that low. I graduated over 10 years ago, and my GPA is preventing me from even considering top schools. I hope you get some solid advice, here, since I'm basically in the same position

Good luck!

Jmazz88 wrote:Graduated UG in 2012 with subpar grades to put it lightly. No valid excuse other than immaturity. Held two jobs since then- one working for a non for profit in the education field and another for a tech company in a marketing role. What score should I be shooting for to make LS worthwhile? Taking my first test in June. Took a cold diagnostic (timed) and received a 158. Going to self study using the LSAT Trainer as my primary resource. Also, I'm looking to work in the NYC market. Big law would be nice but not end all be all. Also due to UG debt, scholarships would probably be a priority over prestige. Thanks!

170+

Seen that score get people I taught LSAT to into decent top-50 law schools despite abysmal GPAs.

as high a score as you can get, preferably in the mid to high 170's. at the end of the day, a really strong LSAT can counter-balance and sometimes negate a relatively low GPA.

17X. 172 seems to be a real sweet spot, for whatever reason.

NU is within reach, as is Georgetown. Lower ranked schools with big scholly dollars is also in play.

ETA: And you can for sure get there with a 158 cold diagnostic. I had a 161 cold diagnostic and finished in the 170s. Check out the LSAT prep fourm, so many great resources.

You're not smart enough for law school .

Mr. Pancakes wrote:You're not smart enough for law school .

Coming from an individual who likes to refer to himself as Mr. Pancakes, i'll take that statement with a grain of salt. However with my dismal GPA I can see how you would assume this. Basically I did the absolute minimum during UG and consider myself to lucky to have graduated at all. That is about as much as I am willing to divulge.

phillywc wrote:17X. 172 seems to be a real sweet spot, for whatever reason.

NU is within reach, as is Georgetown. Lower ranked schools with big scholly dollars is also in play.

ETA: And you can for sure get there with a 158 cold diagnostic. I had a 161 cold diagnostic and finished in the 170s. Check out the LSAT prep fourm, so many great resources.

Thank you for the advice philly. This forum is certainly a major asset in prepping for this test. Hopefully the 12 Week schedule from LSAT Trainer will suffice. Are there any other "reverse splitter-friendly" (I believe is the right terminology) schools in which I should focus on in the T-25? Also, any other recommendations in regards to prepping for the test?

The passage of time can go a long way toward softening the impact of a poor GPA, especially if you have great work experience or more recent education that can show that you're a better student than you were back in undergrad. I got into UT this cycle with a 2.6/170. I think I might have had a shot at UVA or Northwestern, but that would have mostly been from being in the military for 20 years since undergrad.

When you're using the various admissions predictors, keep in mind that there are not a lot of data points for people with sub-2.7 GPAs, so I'd take the predictions with a grain of salt.

Jmazz88 wrote: Thank you for the advice philly. This forum is certainly a major asset in prepping for this test. Hopefully the 12 Week schedule from LSAT Trainer will suffice. Are there any other "reverse splitter-friendly" (I believe is the right terminology) schools in which I should focus on in the T-25? Also, any other recommendations in regards to prepping for the test?

Reverse Splitter is the wrong term, you are a regular splitter. I'd really aim for UVA/Duke/Northwestern/Gtown. While WUSTL, Minny and and a few other schools may make it rain for a high lsat, you have to decide if you want to work in those places, and if you could get a job even if you wanted to there (some of the markets are very tie sensitive).

Work a few more years. You have to distance yourself from that GPA. Why would anyone believe your work ethic has changed so much in the last 2 or 3 years that you'll be successful now? It will take time to have a good answer for that.

But, you'll have to crush the LSAT to even have a chance at a good enough school with enough scholarships to make it worthwhile. Most likely law school will be a terrible financial choice for you. That 2.5 GPA is just a killer. It matters too much in admissions.

Anybody that gives you scholly is probably going to be a regional school that doesn't place well in NYC unless you finish high in your class, so there is an opportunity cost there. Don't assume you will graduate top X% and be one of the lucky few who goes from a regional to NYC because lots of people have that plan.

Look at Law School Transparency to see which schools send people to New York in (relatively) high numbers. Keep in mind, this is New York State so the data isn't perfect.

T-14 gives better chances, but at greater financial risks.

TCR here, assuming being an attorney is what you want to do with your life, is to get a job and spend a year solving the LSAT while working. Apply to the PT program at GULC. A 172 gives you a chance there, a 175 gives you a good chance. Might get significant money at GW, even PT, with that LSAT. While you're at it you can throw an ED app at NU just in case, as well as regular apps at the rest of the T14 and try to ride some waitlists (especially if applications remain down overall).

PT programs are a little less competitive and are still a bit of a "backdoor" in (though not nearly as much as they used to be when PT students didn't have to be included in a school's LSAT/GPA numbers).

androstan wrote:TCR here, assuming being an attorney is what you want to do with your life, is to get a job and spend a year solving the LSAT while working. Apply to the PT program at GULC. A 172 gives you a chance there, a 175 gives you a good chance. Might get significant money at GW, even PT, with that LSAT. While you're at it you can throw an ED app at NU just in case, as well as regular apps at the rest of the T14 and try to ride some waitlists (especially if applications remain down overall).

PT programs are a little less competitive and are still a bit of a "backdoor" in (though not nearly as much as they used to be when PT students didn't have to be included in a school's LSAT/GPA numbers).

I think this is good advice except that I wouldn't bother EDing Northwestern. The full ride for ED admits makes that an unlikely shot. If you're going to ED anywhere make it UVA with a 170+

I think everyone can agree that the best option is just to do as best as you possible can. study like hell for the LSAT and once you have your score, you can more accurately decide if it would be worth going to law school. I agree with the above poster that says the more removed from undergrad, the less detrimental your gpa might be. With all that said, i would shoot for a 172, You would have a shot at some of the lower T14. You should play around with LSN to see. Also, i am not sure what you mean by "lucky to graduate", if this was due to some academic C&F issue like plagiarism, that could complicate things for you.

Hat.trick wrote:I think everyone can agree that the best option is just to do as best as you possible can. study like hell for the LSAT and once you have your score, you can more accurately decide if it would be worth going to law school. I agree with the above poster that says the more removed from undergrad, the less detrimental your gpa might be. With all that said, i would shoot for a 172, You would have a shot at some of the lower T14. You should play around with LSN to see. Also, i am not sure what you mean by "lucky to graduate", if this was due to some academic C&F issue like plagiarism, that could complicate things for you.

No, luckily I did not have any disciplinary issues or a C&F problem like plagiarism. Most, if not all, of my classes did not have mandatory attendance. That is basically where my poor GPA stems from.

[quote="notalobbyist"]Don't assume you will graduate top X% and be one of the lucky few who goes from a regional to NYC because lots of people have that plan.
[quote]

+1. I just wanted to add:

OP wants scholarship over prestige. With a 2.5 GPA, T-14 will most likely be out.

Even if OP attends T-14, I'd be very worried in OP situation. With a 2.5 UG GPA, I would highly doubt that OP can pull above GPA 3.5 (where his classmates came from UG GPA >3.7) to get NYC BigLaw.

Sorry for being harsh, given your situation, law school is not worth it, regardless of what LSAT score u get.

Jchance wrote:

Sorry for being harsh, given your situation, law school is not worth it, regardless of what LSAT score u get.

This.

Seriously. Undergrad is so fucking easy compared to law school. Moreover, the odds of you getting a good enough score to get accepted to a good school is slim to none. Additionally, even if you are able to pull this off, you have very low odds of getting a higher GPA in law school than you did in undergrad.

Don't waste your time. Seriously. Walk away.

Mr. Pancakes wrote:

Jchance wrote:

Sorry for being harsh, given your situation, law school is not worth it, regardless of what LSAT score u get.

This.

Seriously. Undergrad is so fucking easy compared to law school. Moreover, the odds of you getting a good enough score to get accepted to a good school is slim to none. Additionally, even if you are able to pull this off, you have very low odds of getting a higher GPA in law school than you did in undergrad.

Don't waste your time. Seriously. Walk away.

I agree 100 percent

OP, I do have a question: did you have some kind of epiphany that suddenly made you realize that you wanted to go to law school, or that attending classes might be a good thing? I have a pretty low GPA, myself, but that was almost 15 years ago, and I had an (at the time) undiagnosed anxiety disorder to battle through. Just not showing up to class may not sound very good on an addendum (because you WILL have to explain that GPA if you decide to attend law school).

Mauve.Dino wrote:OP, I do have a question: did you have some kind of epiphany that suddenly made you realize that you wanted to go to law school, or that attending classes might be a good thing? I have a pretty low GPA, myself, but that was almost 15 years ago, and I had an (at the time) undiagnosed anxiety disorder to battle through. Just not showing up to class may not sound very good on an addendum (because you WILL have to explain that GPA if you decide to attend law school).

Did not plan on writing an addendum due to the fact that I do not have a "valid" reason for the poor GPA.

Jmazz88 wrote:
Did not plan on writing an addendum due to the fact that I do not have a "valid" reason for the poor GPA.

Well, this is going to be difficult. The thing is, you'll probably get into a school somewhere (there's always someone willing to take your money), but unless you get an amazing LSAT, it definitely won't be a school worth going to--as in, there's a 99.9% chance that you will not find a job. You mentioned that you're taking the test soon, but I honestly wouldn't. You have to walk in that room CONFIDENT that you are going to get either a perfect score, or very, very close to it, because something has to counteract that GPA.

Take some time not only to study like hell, but to also seriously think if this is something you want to do with your life. Get some work experience, show you have matured enough to realize your undergraduate mistakes. You have to make yourself look like a potential law student.

I can't emphasize enough: you NEED an excellent LSAT score. Otherwise, I would not pursue this unless you are comfortable going to a local third or fourth tier school and doing the "shitlaw" jobs that nobody wants--if you're lucky enough to find a job, that is.

I think if you can get into the 170s on your LSAT, a lot of your concerns will go away. While it's true that schools are worried about their numbers, a 2.5 uGPA really isn't significantly different from a 3.1 or 3.2 in that regard - for any of the Tier 1 schools, either GPA puts you in the same "below 25th percentile" category anyway. The school can offset your admission and still maintain their numbers by admitting a high GPA/low LSAT applicant, and those aren't hard to come by.

ScottRiqui wrote:The passage of time can go a long way toward softening the impact of a poor GPA, especially if you have great work experience or more recent education that can show that you're a better student than you were back in undergrad. I got into UT this cycle with a 2.6/170. I think I might have had a shot at UVA or Northwestern, but that would have mostly been from being in the military for 20 years since undergrad.

When you're using the various admissions predictors, keep in mind that there are not a lot of data points for people with sub-2.7 GPAs, so I'd take the predictions with a grain of salt.

This, and considering this cycle I think that OP isn't in a bad situation. I have a sub-3.0 and 168 and am in at UT and Held at NU, and still waiting on (lol) Yale. I don't think OP is in a bad position if he has 165+, but 170+ is obviously TCR.

Attax wrote:

ScottRiqui wrote:The passage of time can go a long way toward softening the impact of a poor GPA, especially if you have great work experience or more recent education that can show that you're a better student than you were back in undergrad. I got into UT this cycle with a 2.6/170. I think I might have had a shot at UVA or Northwestern, but that would have mostly been from being in the military for 20 years since undergrad.

When you're using the various admissions predictors, keep in mind that there are not a lot of data points for people with sub-2.7 GPAs, so I'd take the predictions with a grain of salt.

This, and considering this cycle I think that OP isn't in a bad situation. I have a sub-3.0 and 168 and am in at UT and Held at NU, and still waiting on (lol) Yale. I don't think OP is in a bad position if he has 165+, but 170+ is obviously TCR.

Out of curiosity is UT seen as a national school? For example would UT carry weight in the NYC market?