What accounts for Fordham's free fall in the rankings?
Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:28 pm
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That is not true. As I said in the original post, Fordham's Biglaw placement is on par or better than UT, UCLA and Vanderbilt.resilience99 wrote:Fordham's lsat median has been dropping and they haven't really reduced the class sizes. They place a large number of students in biglaw but because the class sizes are large, it is a relatively small percentage.
ThisNova wrote:IDK but
USNWR sucks and should be ignored
+ 10,000Nova wrote:IDK but
USNWR sucks and should be ignored
Both wrong.Moneytrees wrote:That is not true. As I said in the original post, Fordham's Biglaw placement is on par or better than UT, UCLA and Vanderbilt.resilience99 wrote:Fordham's lsat median has been dropping and they haven't really reduced the class sizes. They place a large number of students in biglaw but because the class sizes are large, it is a relatively small percentage.
.guano wrote:Both wrong.Moneytrees wrote:That is not true. As I said in the original post, Fordham's Biglaw placement is on par or better than UT, UCLA and Vanderbilt.resilience99 wrote:Fordham's lsat median has been dropping and they haven't really reduced the class sizes. They place a large number of students in biglaw but because the class sizes are large, it is a relatively small percentage.
Fordham reduced their class size quite a bit, and their biglaw placement lags behind UT/UCLA/USC/Vandy ( especially if you add Art. III clerkship)
However, outside the T18, they're the best shot at market paying biglaw. For those who don't get into the T14 and want NYC and/or biglaw it's high risk/high reward. About a quarter of the class gets biglaw or clerkship, about a quarter get decent legal jobs, and the rest are up shit creek without a paddle
Last year's NLJ250 list is now behind a paywall (and this year's isn't out yet), but, here's the numbers:Moneytrees wrote:guano wrote: Fordham reduced their class size quite a bit, and their biglaw placement lags behind UT/UCLA/USC/Vandy ( especially if you add Art. III clerkship)
However, outside the T18, they're the best shot at market paying biglaw. For those who don't get into the T14 and want NYC and/or biglaw it's high risk/high reward. About a quarter of the class gets biglaw or clerkship, about a quarter get decent legal jobs, and the rest are up shit creek without a paddle
Why are you just making stuff up? Fordham is objectively better than UT, and is roughly equal to Vanderbilt and UCLA, in Biglaw placement. It does lag behind USC, I'll give you that. This is based on data, it's not my opinion. I'm no Fordham apologist, and have no interest in arguing that Fordham is underrated relative to the Big 2 in NYC. But Fordham's placement numbers are up there with the best outside of the top 14, which is why I asked the question about the rankings in the first place.
Thank you for your responses. I tend to agree that rankings don't matter all that much, but I was definitely puzzled by Fordham's slip in the rankings. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing a glaring weakness/issue with the school.
Interesting. Not sure why those numbers differ lawschooltransparency. Perhaps the latter also measures percentage of people getting jobs at smaller firms. Thanks the info.guano wrote:Last year's NLJ250 list is now behind a paywall (and this year's isn't out yet), but, here's the numbers:Moneytrees wrote:guano wrote: Fordham reduced their class size quite a bit, and their biglaw placement lags behind UT/UCLA/USC/Vandy ( especially if you add Art. III clerkship)
However, outside the T18, they're the best shot at market paying biglaw. For those who don't get into the T14 and want NYC and/or biglaw it's high risk/high reward. About a quarter of the class gets biglaw or clerkship, about a quarter get decent legal jobs, and the rest are up shit creek without a paddle
Why are you just making stuff up? Fordham is objectively better than UT, and is roughly equal to Vanderbilt and UCLA, in Biglaw placement. It does lag behind USC, I'll give you that. This is based on data, it's not my opinion. I'm no Fordham apologist, and have no interest in arguing that Fordham is underrated relative to the Big 2 in NYC. But Fordham's placement numbers are up there with the best outside of the top 14, which is why I asked the question about the rankings in the first place.
Thank you for your responses. I tend to agree that rankings don't matter all that much, but I was definitely puzzled by Fordham's slip in the rankings. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing a glaring weakness/issue with the school.
Pennsylvania (60.4%)
Chicago (55.1%)
Columbia (53.1%)
NYU (52.9%)
Northwestern (51.4%)
Harvard (50.3%)
Duke (48.4%)
Stanford (47.3%)
UC-Berkeley (45.3%)
Cornell (44.3%)
Virginia (42.3%)
Michigan (38.4%)
Georgetown (31.3%)
Yale (30.6%)
UCLA (29.1%)
USC (28.6%)
Vanderbilt (26.3%)
Texas (25.8%)
Fordham (23.4%)
UC-Irvine (23.2%)
George Washington (22.5%)
Boston University (21.3%)
Boston College (21.1%)
Illinois (18.8%)
Washington University (16.3%)
The year before that, the results outside the T14 were very similar - UCLA/USC/UT/Vandy were in a band together, at roughly 25-30%, and another band just below of Fordham/GW/BU/BC, followed by everyone else. The year before that, same thing.
I'm not trying to shit-talk fordham. But for the last few years (ITE), it's placement has consistently put it in a band with GW/BU/BC, and not UCLA/USC/UT/Vandy
Cuz US News cares about crap that doesn't matter and employment stats are valued enough in their system. The sooner you make peace with the fact that US News rankings don't matter, the better off you will be.Moneytrees wrote:Interesting. Not sure why those numbers differ lawschooltransparency. Perhaps the latter also measures percentage of people getting jobs at smaller firms. Thanks the info.guano wrote:Last year's NLJ250 list is now behind a paywall (and this year's isn't out yet), but, here's the numbers:Moneytrees wrote:guano wrote: Fordham reduced their class size quite a bit, and their biglaw placement lags behind UT/UCLA/USC/Vandy ( especially if you add Art. III clerkship)
However, outside the T18, they're the best shot at market paying biglaw. For those who don't get into the T14 and want NYC and/or biglaw it's high risk/high reward. About a quarter of the class gets biglaw or clerkship, about a quarter get decent legal jobs, and the rest are up shit creek without a paddle
Why are you just making stuff up? Fordham is objectively better than UT, and is roughly equal to Vanderbilt and UCLA, in Biglaw placement. It does lag behind USC, I'll give you that. This is based on data, it's not my opinion. I'm no Fordham apologist, and have no interest in arguing that Fordham is underrated relative to the Big 2 in NYC. But Fordham's placement numbers are up there with the best outside of the top 14, which is why I asked the question about the rankings in the first place.
Thank you for your responses. I tend to agree that rankings don't matter all that much, but I was definitely puzzled by Fordham's slip in the rankings. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing a glaring weakness/issue with the school.
Pennsylvania (60.4%)
Chicago (55.1%)
Columbia (53.1%)
NYU (52.9%)
Northwestern (51.4%)
Harvard (50.3%)
Duke (48.4%)
Stanford (47.3%)
UC-Berkeley (45.3%)
Cornell (44.3%)
Virginia (42.3%)
Michigan (38.4%)
Georgetown (31.3%)
Yale (30.6%)
UCLA (29.1%)
USC (28.6%)
Vanderbilt (26.3%)
Texas (25.8%)
Fordham (23.4%)
UC-Irvine (23.2%)
George Washington (22.5%)
Boston University (21.3%)
Boston College (21.1%)
Illinois (18.8%)
Washington University (16.3%)
The year before that, the results outside the T14 were very similar - UCLA/USC/UT/Vandy were in a band together, at roughly 25-30%, and another band just below of Fordham/GW/BU/BC, followed by everyone else. The year before that, same thing.
I'm not trying to shit-talk fordham. But for the last few years (ITE), it's placement has consistently put it in a band with GW/BU/BC, and not UCLA/USC/UT/Vandy
Sparty- Fordham seems like a good fit for me for the reasons I listed above. I'm not set on going there, however. I wanted to get some perspective from tls users. I really just can't comprehend how schools like Washington and Lee and Indiana are ranked ahead of a school like Fordham. There are other examples of schools outperforming their rank (like bc and bu), but Fordham strikes me as the most egregious case.
Don't get me wrong. I think that based on your circumstances Fordham is probably a good fit, and they do have a decent alumni base in California (but you really shouldn't go there with the intent of ending up anywhere other than NYC). But not at full price. You're already a step above everyone else by being able to keep your living costs down, but you should try to get a scholarship. $150k (sticker) is a crapload of money, and if you miss the biglaw boat you don't want that hanging round your neck. At the maximum scholarship ($30k based on past 2 years), it most definitely is worth $60k. You probably won't get that much, but try to get as much as you can, and then decideMoneytrees wrote:Interesting. Not sure why those numbers differ lawschooltransparency. Perhaps the latter also measures percentage of people getting jobs at smaller firms. Thanks the info.
Sparty- Fordham seems like a good fit for me for the reasons I listed above. I'm not set on going there, however. I wanted to get some perspective from tls users. I really just can't comprehend how schools like Washington and Lee and Indiana are ranked ahead of a school like Fordham. There are other examples of schools outperforming their rank (like bc and bu), but Fordham strikes me as the most egregious case.
Fordham doesn't give full rides*dissonance1848 wrote:You have a 3.6/163. If you want to go to law school, you have to retake and get at least a 170, and then apply to T14. Shit, if you can get a 175+, Harvard is in play, via LSN.
Do not go to Fordham, unless they give you a fullride.
Otherwise, do not go to law school.
You don't need 17X for a good scholly at Fordham.Moneytrees wrote:A retake is still a possibility. However, I'm working full time and helping take care of my grandmother. Both money and time are tight. Realistically, I don't think my chances of scoring in the 170's are very good, at all. I guess we will see how things go this cycle.
To the guy who goes to Georgia: I was thinking of applying there, it seems like a solid pick given it's relatively cheap tuition and solid job prospects. Its 2011 numbers were a little alarming though. I almost went to Emory for undergrad, I don't know too much about Athens.
Riiight. Just so you know, law school grades are given on a curve. They rest almost entirely on your final exam performance. What if you have a bad day? What if you get sick? You CAN NOT bank on top 15% no matter what school it is. Almost everyone at Fordham will have a higher LSAT score than you anyways, what makes you so sure you can beat them?Moneytrees wrote:Even at sticker, it's not an "objectively bad" decision. It all depends on how confident you are that you can land a job in Biglaw. 150K of debt is a large investment, but one that pays off in the long run with Biglaw. I have 3 uncles/aunts that went to Fordham and all went on to work in Biglaw. One of them is the chief legal head at American Express. Needless to say, I wouldn't ideally want to pay sticker.phillywc wrote:You have poor odds at Fordham, and if you got in it would be at sticker. Objectively bad decision.
I don't need a lecture about the risks of going to Fordham (or any other schools outside of the top 14). Personally, I am very confident in my chances of finishing in the top 15/20 percent of my class. I was in the top 20 percent at UCSD with a double major and playing on the soccer team (I also probably spent too much time at the frat house). I've done all the research, and am aware of both the weakness and positives of the schools that I've applied to. All I was asking was: is there any specific, glaring weakness that has caused Fordham to free fall in the rankings? The answer, from what I can discern, is no. Also apparent is the fact that knowledgeable people on here don't seem to respect the methodology behind the rankings in the first place. I appreciate the perspective.
This is an objectively bad post and you should feel bad (objectively speaking).Moneytrees wrote:Even at sticker, it's not an "objectively bad" decision. It all depends on how confident you are that you can land a job in Biglaw. 150K of debt is a large investment, but one that pays off in the long run with Biglaw. I have 3 uncles/aunts that went to Fordham and all went on to work in Biglaw. One of them is the chief legal head at American Express. Needless to say, I wouldn't ideally want to pay sticker.phillywc wrote:You have poor odds at Fordham, and if you got in it would be at sticker. Objectively bad decision.
I don't need a lecture about the risks of going to Fordham (or any other schools outside of the top 14). Personally, I am very confident in my chances of finishing in the top 15/20 percent of my class. I was in the top 20 percent at UCSD with a double major and playing on the soccer team (I also probably spent too much time at the frat house). I've done all the research, and am aware of both the weakness and positives of the schools that I've applied to. All I was asking was: is there any specific, glaring weakness that has caused Fordham to free fall in the rankings? The answer, from what I can discern, is no. Also apparent is the fact that knowledgeable people on here don't seem to respect the methodology behind the rankings in the first place. I appreciate the perspective.