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I am currently halfway through my undergraduate career and my GPA is not so great. I am planning on graduating the summer of 2015 and will graduate with a 3.0 (degree 3.9); I have also started studying for the LSAT which I plan on taking next year in February. My question is, should I delay graduation until the spring of 2016 so that I might increase my GPA to a 3.2? Would law school admissions look down on an applicant who had taken a great deal more credits than the average student?

scar wrote:I am currently halfway through my undergraduate career and my GPA is not so great. I am planning on graduating the summer of 2015 and will graduate with a 3.0 (degree 3.9); I have also started studying for the LSAT which I plan on taking next year in February. My question is, should I delay graduation until the spring of 2016 so that I might increase my GPA to a 3.2? Would law school admissions look down on an applicant who had taken a great deal more credits than the average student?

The number matters the most. A 3.2 is a lot better than a 3.0. Take some bs classes over the summer at a community college.

Well I will be graduating with just over 160 credits in the Fall. If I would delay graduation to improve my GPA to that 3.2, thats a full year of credits in addition (not just a summer). Is it crazy to take that many more credits? Would my options improve that much in terms of potential schools?

scar wrote:Well I will be graduating with just over 160 credits in the Fall. If I would delay graduation to improve my GPA to that 3.2, thats a full year of credits in addition (not just a summer). Is it crazy to take that many more credits? Would my options improve that much in terms of potential schools?

Do whatever it takes to increase your GPA as it is one of the determining factors for your acceptance to any law school.

I really appreciate the responses. I will take this into consideration, and try prolonging my undergraduate studies to improve my cumulative GPA. Maybe I can justify that by pursuing a second major and study longer for the LSAT as well.

How much will the extra year cost you in undergrad tuition? A 3-3.2 is a significant jump, but even if college is free, a year of not working has a high opportunity cost.

Advice would be more accurate with an idea of what your LSAT might be. Have you taken a diagnostic yet?

scar wrote:Would law school admissions look down on an applicant who had taken a great deal more credits than the average student?

no

.

Also, I'm confused. Are you planning to graduate in "the fall" or "the summer of 2015"? And is the 3.0 assuming you get straight As in the second have of your college career?

I'm confused as to how you can predict your GPA with this much certainty.

If I was in your position five years ago and had the financial ability to extend my time as an undergrad, you bet your ass I'd do it. Besides the fact that it's fun to be an undergrad, you can probably end up higher than 3.2 with five semesters + summers, taking max credits and gunning for As.

The caveat is that this isn't financially viable for most people. If I went to state school, lived with my folks, and maybe did a work-study program, this wouldn't be such a crazy idea. Or if I wasn't in a rush to go to law school, maybe I'd attend school part-time while working, putting off one or two courses I needed to graduate.

But if I was going into significant debt for this scheme, I personally wouldn't do it. There are just too many variables -- maybe you get screwed by a hard course or two, maybe your financial situation changes, maybe you decide not to go to LS after all, etc.

midwest17 wrote:Also, I'm confused. Are you planning to graduate in "the fall" or "the summer of 2015"? And is the 3.0 assuming you get straight As in the second have of your college career?

I'm confused as to how you can predict your GPA with this much certainty.

Yeah, I'm confused about this too. How far below 3.0 are you now?

Im at a 2.6 right now, but I transferred to a state school which is fairly easy (less challenging then my private high school was). It's also very affordable, like 7-8k a semester. I am currently living at home now and going to school full-time. I have made a 3.8, and a 4.0 the last two semesters, and I am very certain that I will be able to maintain this trend with little to no difficulty. I've been working for my parents on the weekends, My mom has two dental practices, and my dad has a solo accounting practice. My parents are well off, and have told me that they will pay for any further education in full if need be, so graduating with debt or difficulty in affording an education is really not something I have to think about. I fucked around early in college and this is why my GPA is not so hot.

Also I have purchased study materials (logic games bible, logical reasoning bible, ace the lsat, and like 4 or 5 booklets of actual tests from LSAC). My diagnostic, I got a 162. Im planning on taking the LSAT in a year, I would like to give myself the time and resources to be able to score much, much higher.

midwest17 wrote:Also, I'm confused. Are you planning to graduate in "the fall" or "the summer of 2015"? And is the 3.0 assuming you get straight As in the second have of your college career?

I'm confused as to how you can predict your GPA with this much certainty.

I initially was intending to graduate the fall of 2015, but Im considering delaying graduation to the spring or summer of 2016 if need be. I am calculating my potential GPA based on my previous performance, assuming I got a 4.0 every semester I would do better.

scar wrote:

midwest17 wrote:Also, I'm confused. Are you planning to graduate in "the fall" or "the summer of 2015"? And is the 3.0 assuming you get straight As in the second have of your college career?

I'm confused as to how you can predict your GPA with this much certainty.

I initially was intending to graduate the fall of 2015, but Im considering delaying graduation to the spring or summer of 2016 if need be. I am calculating my potential GPA based on my previous performance, assuming I got a 4.0 every semester I would do better.

It is dangerous to perdict your final grade as there are many unknown factors that may prevent you from achieving your 4.0. I'd say 90% of the people who say they will get 4.0s end up falling short. 162 is not bad on your diagnostics however I would suggest you get atleast a 170+ average on your PTs if you are considering prolonging your undergraduate career.

Agreed. I have a good amount of time to make that decision as well, and I certainly would like to see how well I do on the LSAT before doing so. Also I just want to say that I am not predicting my grade based on 4.0 semesters, rather 3.8-3.9 semesters-It may seem like that's quite a jump to make but I can pretty much lock that down. All I will be doing is pretty much classwork, studying for the LSAT as far as work goes. I don't have any real work besides helping out at my parents businesses. I taught martial arts to kids for a summer, i'm lining up unpaid work for some local lawyers for this summer and probably next summer. So basically I have no real softs, Im pretty much investing all my time and effort into school and studying for the lsat.

So, assuming you can get a 170, here's a rough look at the difference between a 3.0 and a 3.2:

3.0:

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3.2:

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That's not insignificant. You go from a weak shot at Georgetown to a decent shot, plus small shots at MVP, and you lock in most of the lower-ranked schools. You should play around with different LSATs to see how this changes, and look specifically at schools with good placement in the regions you have ties to. I doubt a 3.2 will get you past the 25th percentile at any school worth attending, but nonetheless schools will be more willing to take a chance on a 3.2/170 than a 3.0/170 (this is especially true if you don't quite make that 3.0 and are stuck in the 2.9 range -- people seem to agree that 3.0 is a discontinuity because of the psychological effects of seeing the 2.)

So anyways, since you're just talking about 1-2 more semesters (so 14-16k more in tuition), it may well be worth it. But bear in mind that even if your parents are paying that tuition, that's money you won't have access to down the line (inheritance, future assistance, etc).

Also keep in mind that if you want your spring/summer 2016 grades to count, you'll need to apply for the fall 2017 term of law school, which means you'll be in the class of 2020 rather than the class of 2019. Of course, that year of work experience between college and law school will be a good thing when it comes time to get a legal job, but it's something to keep in mind.

P.S. A pet peeve of mine: saying "a state school which is fairly easy (less challenging then my private high school was)" comes across as elitist and a bit silly. "State school" and "private school" are irrelevant here: many top schools are state schools, many easy schools are private.

midwest17 wrote: P.S. A pet peeve of mine: saying "a state school which is fairly easy (less challenging then my private high school was)" comes across as elitist and a bit silly. "State school" and "private school" are irrelevant here: many top schools are state schools, many easy schools are private.

I don't mean to come off as snarky at all so I apologize. I was initially at a top 20 university for undergrad, and now I am attending a state university in MA where I reside. I know that there are many great public institutions but I have to say that state colleges in MA really don't meet that mark. (I don't think this statement is elitist so much as an honest and realistic assessment of the MA state university system, from not only myself but from many peers).

I guess they payoff for increasing the GPA is pretty damn high, and I certainly want to include all my coursework to ensure the best numbers possible. Seeing that the difference between Fall 2015 and Summer 2016 graduation is only 2 semesters thats seems like a solid investment. I guess there are a host of benefits that come with applying the year after graduation as well. One thing I am still apprehensive about is that I would have spent 6 years to get my bachelor's, do you think this would be a negative aspect in my application or outweighed by the clear benefit of the numbers. I mean admissions committees would clearly recognize this.

scar wrote:

midwest17 wrote: P.S. A pet peeve of mine: saying "a state school which is fairly easy (less challenging then my private high school was)" comes across as elitist and a bit silly. "State school" and "private school" are irrelevant here: many top schools are state schools, many easy schools are private.

I don't mean to come off as snarky at all so I apologize. I was initially at a top 20 university for undergrad, and now I am attending a state university in MA where I reside. I know that there are many great public institutions but I have to say that state colleges in MA really don't meet that mark. (I don't think this statement is elitist so much as an honest and realistic assessment of the MA state university system, from not only myself but from many peers).

I guess they payoff for increasing the GPA is pretty damn high, and I certainly want to include all my coursework to ensure the best numbers possible. Seeing that the difference between Fall 2015 and Summer 2016 graduation is only 2 semesters thats seems like a solid investment. I guess there are a host of benefits that come with applying the year after graduation as well. One thing I am still apprehensive about is that I would have spent 6 years to get my bachelor's, do you think this would be a negative aspect in my application or outweighed by the clear benefit of the numbers. I mean admissions committees would clearly recognize this.

If you don't mind me asking, which state school are you attending in MA? I know a few UMass campuses hands out A+'s which counts as a 4.33. You may actually be able to pull up your GPA more than you think.

scar wrote:

midwest17 wrote: P.S. A pet peeve of mine: saying "a state school which is fairly easy (less challenging then my private high school was)" comes across as elitist and a bit silly. "State school" and "private school" are irrelevant here: many top schools are state schools, many easy schools are private.

I don't mean to come off as snarky at all so I apologize. I was initially at a top 20 university for undergrad, and now I am attending a state university in MA where I reside. I know that there are many great public institutions but I have to say that state colleges in MA really don't meet that mark. (I don't think this statement is elitist so much as an honest and realistic assessment of the MA state university system, from not only myself but from many peers).

I guess they payoff for increasing the GPA is pretty damn high, and I certainly want to include all my coursework to ensure the best numbers possible. Seeing that the difference between Fall 2015 and Summer 2016 graduation is only 2 semesters thats seems like a solid investment. I guess there are a host of benefits that come with applying the year after graduation as well. One thing I am still apprehensive about is that I would have spent 6 years to get my bachelor's, do you think this would be a negative aspect in my application or outweighed by the clear benefit of the numbers. I mean admissions committees would clearly recognize this.

No idea if that's on their radar, but if it is, I'd have to believe any disadvantages are hugely outweighed by the GPA boost. Gotta protect dem medians.

I'd rather not say, but I will say that I have received a few A+'s. Do they really help that much? In the 29 credits I've completed so far, the worst grade I received was one B+. If this type of grading really helps me out, I guess I have a lot more to be grateful about.

scar wrote:I'd rather not say, but I will say that I have received a few A+'s. Do they really help that much? In the 29 credits I've completed so far, the worst grade I received was one B+. If this type of grading really helps me out, I guess I have a lot more to be grateful about.

well its a .33 difference in GPA so thats quite a bit. they can remedy your A- or any other grade for that matter. I guess all you can do now is try to get the most A+s possible maybe you can end with a 3.25 or a 3.3