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My (0L) guess would be that if K-JD is a disadvantage for anyone, it's a disadvantage for splitters. I don't know that we have any good data on how big the effect is. I'd recommend applying to the schools you want to go to, but being prepared to sit out a cycle or two if you don't get offers that are worth taking.

midwest17 wrote:My (0L) guess would be that if K-JD is a disadvantage for anyone, it's a disadvantage for splitters. I don't know that we have any good data on how big the effect is. I'd recommend applying to the schools you want to go to, but being prepared to sit out a cycle or two if you don't get offers that are worth taking.

Good advice.

That high-LSAT/low-GPA split for a K-JD makes me worry about their ability to focus on academics (especially if it's not because of a bad first semester or two). They're clearly smart, but don't apply themselves. A few years work experience would help that perception.

midwest17 wrote:My (0L) guess would be that if K-JD is a disadvantage for anyone, it's a disadvantage for splitters.

This could very well be right, but just for some anecdotal evidence to suggest otherwise... I'm 3.5x/177 and K-JD applying right now. I've gotten five acceptances so far all from within the T-14, including an acceptance at my first choice that's known for "caring more about GPA than LSAT."

Schools usually don't care (except Northwestern). The real problem will be doing well at OCI. You need good grades as a K-JD or you are pretty much SOL at OCI (and therefore SOL in life).

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It's a real disadvantage when hunting for a job once you get into school as well.

I was a K-JD and glad I did it because there was nothing else I wanted to be doing for a year or three, but it's a bit hard to recommend given how obviously having work experience was helpful when it came to the job hunt.

wowhio wrote:

midwest17 wrote:My (0L) guess would be that if K-JD is a disadvantage for anyone, it's a disadvantage for splitters.

This could very well be right, but just for some anecdotal evidence to suggest otherwise... I'm 3.5x/177 and K-JD applying right now. I've gotten five acceptances so far all from within the T-14, including an acceptance at my first choice that's known for "caring more about GPA than LSAT."

3.5 isn't particularly low for anything outside HYS (maybe Berkeley and Chicago), and I stop considering people splitters when they hit 175 with the current decline in people with a top LSAT score.

If we can find a 2.8/173 with your track record, then I'd be more inclined to flip sides in the debate!

DR3 wrote:Unless you are suggesting that good grades in law school are even more essential for a K-JD given the lack of W.E., in which case I'd be more inclined to agree with you. Although I do wonder to what extent that really plays a role, given the fact that most non K-JDs do not have work experience in BigLaw or similar lines of work. I would imagine non K-JDs have a slight advantage but not to a tremendous degree. Though, admittedly, this is entirely conjectural.

I am saying that K-JDs only have grades to rely on. So they live and die by their grades during OCI. However, students with significant W/E can pull offers easier without good grades. It is very dependent on the type of work experience and the firm but it gives you a very legit bump. I have seen people with bottom quarter grades get big law at my T14 based on former careers in IP related fields. I have also seen student with former careers in banking, finance, or tax have significant bumps at OCI as well.

daryldixon wrote:

DR3 wrote:Unless you are suggesting that good grades in law school are even more essential for a K-JD given the lack of W.E., in which case I'd be more inclined to agree with you. Although I do wonder to what extent that really plays a role, given the fact that most non K-JDs do not have work experience in BigLaw or similar lines of work. I would imagine non K-JDs have a slight advantage but not to a tremendous degree. Though, admittedly, this is entirely conjectural.

I am saying that K-JDs only have grades to rely on. So they live and die by their grades during OCI. However, students with significant W/E can pull offers easier without good grades. It is very dependent on the type of work experience and the firm but it gives you a very legit bump. I have seen people with bottom quarter grades get big law at my T14 based on former careers in IP related fields. I have also seen student with former careers in banking, finance, or tax have significant bumps at OCI as well.

I agree that relevant work experience is an advantage. But I wouldn't go so far as to say that K-JD's are SOL if they dont have stellar grades 1L. On average, what..about 2/3 of 1Ls are K-JD's at T14s (not sure of the exact percentage, just going off what I've seen on class profiles on schools' websites) and well over 50% end up with desirable jobs from these schools? There's clearly some overlap and plenty of K-JD's get these jobs. Obviously not discounting work experience, but I think the advantage may be even more pronounced at the lower ranked schools.

altoid99 wrote:
I agree that relevant work experience is an advantage. But I wouldn't go so far as to say that K-JD's are SOL if they dont have stellar grades 1L. On average, what..about 2/3 of 1Ls are K-JD's at T14s (not sure of the exact percentage, just going off what I've seen on class profiles on schools' websites) and well over 50% end up with desirable jobs from these schools? There's clearly some overlap and plenty of K-JD's get these jobs. Obviously not discounting work experience, but I think the advantage may be even more pronounced at the lower ranked schools.

I don't think this estimate is right. K-JDs are only around 20-30% of the class at HYS, for example. Same at Michigan and Berkeley. NU only has ~10% K-JDs. I don't think K-JDs are the majority of the class at any T14.

63% have work experience at UVA law: http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/about/factsstats.htm

NU is clearly and obviously an outlier.

thesealocust wrote:63% have work experience at UVA law: http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/about/factsstats.htm

NU is clearly and obviously an outlier.

Yeah, I mean, UVA's proportion of K-JDs is higher than some of the other T14 (and NU is obviously known for heavily valuing WE and is an outlier), but I still don't think there are any T14 schools where the majority of 1Ls are K-JDs, let alone 2/3rds. This may not have been the case 5-10 years ago, though-I think the proportion of people with post-college WE has increased over the last few years.

I think the biggest disadvantage for K-JDs is that it makes it tough to get into Northwestern, which is the most splitter-friendly of the T14. If your GPA is not too low and you're ok with not getting Northwestern, it shouldn't be that big of a deal from an admissions standpoint, as long as you have some other decent softs that can make up for it.

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