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Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:19 pm
by IgosduIkana
I have one soft that must be getting me wait-listed at T14s I'm applying to, because folks with my numbers are auto-rejects at these schools. It isn't TFA, or military experience, or lengthy work experience. It's an entrepreneurial effort that required a lot of ambition and made a global impact.
If admissions is a numbers game like many TLSers state, why do they care about softs? Have I missed something?
Re: Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:24 pm
by t-14orbust
IgosduIkana wrote:I have one soft that must be getting me wait-listed at T14s I'm applying to, because folks with my numbers are auto-rejects at these schools. It isn't TFA, or military experience, or lengthy work experience. It's an entrepreneurial effort that required a lot of ambition and made a global impact.
If admissions is a numbers game like many TLSers state, why do they care about softs? Have I missed something?
also, nice humblebrag lol
Re: Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:31 pm
by 20170322
In before "they don't."
Re: Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:35 pm
by midwest17
t-14orbust wrote:nice humblebrag lol
Re: Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:37 pm
by IgosduIkana
t-14orbust wrote:IgosduIkana wrote:I have one soft that must be getting me wait-listed at T14s I'm applying to, because folks with my numbers are auto-rejects at these schools. It isn't TFA, or military experience, or lengthy work experience. It's an entrepreneurial effort that required a lot of ambition and made a global impact.
If admissions is a numbers game like many TLSers state, why do they care about softs? Have I missed something?
also, nice humblebrag lol
bahaha nice catch. I find it hard to believe they don't care about softs because I find it hard to believe their standards are slipping hard enough to even consider me! LSN indicates I should've been dinged hard. I'm not even URM. Perhaps it will be a mystery.
Re: Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:50 pm
by TheSpanishMain
Because having an interesting class is also something to brag about. It's probably also correlated with students doing better at job hunting. Someone with other work experience to put on the resume and interesting things to talk about is going to do much better on average than a K-JD who did nothing but study.
Softs do matter. This is my first cycle, but I've already been accepted at schools where LSN gave someone with my numbers a 10-20% chance. I think most people just overestimate how good their softs are. They think that being in an intramural softball league will make up for a below median LSAT. Perhaps your softs are among the minority that are legitimately good.
Re: Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:59 pm
by IgosduIkana
TheSpanishMain wrote:Because having an interesting class is also something to brag about. It's probably also correlated with students doing better at job hunting. Someone with other work experience to put on the resume and interesting things to talk about is going to do much better on average than a K-JD who did nothing but study.
Softs do matter. This is my first cycle, but I've already been accepted at schools where LSN gave someone with my numbers a 10-20% chance. I think most people just overestimate how good their softs are. They think that being in an intramural softball league will make up for a below median LSAT. Perhaps your softs are among the minority that are legitimately good.
This explanation makes a lot more sense...thanks jason.
Re: Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:20 pm
by 2014
It's probably a reflection of schools being overly conservative in light of declining apps. No reason to reject people this early, doesn't cost the school anything to maintain a huge WL.
In general though, softs matter for two related reasons in my opinion, neither of which is for bragging in marketing which I think only matters marginally. The first is that people who have done things in the past are more likely to finish things in the future. Schools want you to show up, pay tuition for 3 years, graduate, and turn into a donor/advocate for the school. Someone who has done nothing but obtain a GPA and an LSAT score might pose a higher risk of dropping out, failing to deal with the pressure, and is probably less likely to engage with the school in the future. Second, while law school grades and law school rank matter the most in terms of getting a job, being interesting is up there too. People with interesting softs are more likely to be able to sustain a conversation for 20-30 minutes because they have something on their resume worth asking about, and doing interesting things might correlate well with being sociable. Being employable then matters both because it shows up in USNWR (albeit 4 years down the road) and because employed people have more money and surely people with more money are more useful to the school in donations and networking.
Re: Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:47 am
by midwest17
2014 wrote:It's probably a reflection of schools being overly conservative in light of declining apps. No reason to reject people this early, doesn't cost the school anything to maintain a huge WL.
In general though, softs matter for two related reasons in my opinion, neither of which is for bragging in marketing which I think only matters marginally. The first is that people who have done things in the past are more likely to finish things in the future. Schools want you to show up, pay tuition for 3 years, graduate, and turn into a donor/advocate for the school. Someone who has done nothing but obtain a GPA and an LSAT score might pose a higher risk of dropping out, failing to deal with the pressure, and is probably less likely to engage with the school in the future. Second, while law school grades and law school rank matter the most in terms of getting a job, being interesting is up there too. People with interesting softs are more likely to be able to sustain a conversation for 20-30 minutes because they have something on their resume worth asking about, and doing interesting things might correlate well with being sociable. Being employable then matters both because it shows up in USNWR (albeit 4 years down the road) and because employed people have more money and surely people with more money are more useful to the school in donations and networking.
I doubt that holding a job indicates much more about your likeliness of dropping out of law school than succeeding academically does.
Re: Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:53 am
by altoid99
Retake.
Re: Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:40 am
by jingosaur
Softs do matter. In today's legal market, and as students move towards employment statistics to choose schools, having skills that make you more employable is valuable. The TLS hivemind tends to discredit softs to place more emphasis on the importance of the LSAT. 3 questions can be the difference between a waitlist and an auto-accept with a nice scholarship. Most of the softs that have this kind of boost take years of hard work and special skills to accomplish whereas 3 more questions on the LSAT may take only a few more months of prep.
Re: Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:34 am
by lawschool22
Softs seemed to matter, at least in my case. I don't think I would be having a JS1 tomorrow on my numbers alone. And as schools move towards more interviews and placing an emphasis on them, softs will be important. You can't talk about your awesome lsat for an entire interview.
The interviews I have had thus far lead me to believe schools are looking for students with some perspective and experience that they can bring to the class. In my most recent interview, the interviewer said firms have almost demanded that schools provide practice-ready graduates, and that work experience and other related softs are a piece of that puzzle.
Re: Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:37 am
by jingosaur
lawschool22 wrote:Softs seemed to matter, at least in my case. I don't think I would be having a JS1 tomorrow on my numbers alone. And as schools move towards more interviews and placing an emphasis on them, softs will be important. You can't talk about your awesome lsat for an entire interview.
The interviews I have had thus far lead me to believe schools are looking for students with some perspective and experience that they can bring to the class.
Damn it.
Re: Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:38 am
by lawschool22
jingosaur wrote:lawschool22 wrote:Softs seemed to matter, at least in my case. I don't think I would be having a JS1 tomorrow on my numbers alone. And as schools move towards more interviews and placing an emphasis on them, softs will be important. You can't talk about your awesome lsat for an entire interview.
The interviews I have had thus far lead me to believe schools are looking for students with some perspective and experience that they can bring to the class.
Damn it.
Re: Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:24 pm
by thewaves
I'm so awesome, it's bewildering.
Re: Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:54 pm
by koalacity
jingosaur wrote:lawschool22 wrote:Softs seemed to matter, at least in my case. I don't think I would be having a JS1 tomorrow on my numbers alone. And as schools move towards more interviews and placing an emphasis on them, softs will be important. You can't talk about your awesome lsat for an entire interview.
The interviews I have had thus far lead me to believe schools are looking for students with some perspective and experience that they can bring to the class.
Damn it.
Welp, there goes my JS1 strategy.
Re: Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:56 pm
by lawschool22
koalacity wrote:jingosaur wrote:lawschool22 wrote:Softs seemed to matter, at least in my case. I don't think I would be having a JS1 tomorrow on my numbers alone. And as schools move towards more interviews and placing an emphasis on them, softs will be important. You can't talk about your awesome lsat for an entire interview.
The interviews I have had thus far lead me to believe schools are looking for students with some perspective and experience that they can bring to the class.
Damn it.
Welp, there goes my JS1 strategy.
I hope you guys know I'm not knocking amazing LSATs
Re: Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:36 pm
by midwest17
koalacity wrote:jingosaur wrote:lawschool22 wrote:Softs seemed to matter, at least in my case. I don't think I would be having a JS1 tomorrow on my numbers alone. And as schools move towards more interviews and placing an emphasis on them, softs will be important. You can't talk about your awesome lsat for an entire interview.
The interviews I have had thus far lead me to believe schools are looking for students with some perspective and experience that they can bring to the class.
Damn it.
Welp, there goes my JS1 strategy.
Re: Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:32 pm
by bp shinners
As others have said, softs matter.
The thing is, for most people, their softs are a wash. You have a few clubs, maybe some volunteer work, possibly an impressive paper. That's 95+% of people applying. For them, softs matter, but they don't change the outcome because they're the same as everyone else.
But every class has people with below-average numbers, and those people got in because of other factors.
Re: Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:34 am
by chneyo
...
Re: Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:35 am
by ph14
They shouldn't, really, but they think that it makes for a better and more well-rounded class. I really doubt that, though. Pretty sure the you will get a very similar if not the same type of class just from taking a random bunch of qualifying LSATs and GPAs.
Re: Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:56 pm
by patfeeney
TheSpanishMain wrote:Because having an interesting class is also something to brag about. It's probably also correlated with students doing better at job hunting. Someone with other work experience to put on the resume and interesting things to talk about is going to do much better on average than a K-JD who did nothing but study.
Softs do matter. This is my first cycle, but I've already been accepted at schools where LSN gave someone with my numbers a 10-20% chance. I think most people just overestimate how good their softs are. They think that being in an intramural softball league will make up for a below median LSAT. Perhaps your softs are among the minority that are legitimately good.
What's your opinion on internships?
Re: Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:49 pm
by TheSpanishMain
patfeeney wrote:TheSpanishMain wrote:Because having an interesting class is also something to brag about. It's probably also correlated with students doing better at job hunting. Someone with other work experience to put on the resume and interesting things to talk about is going to do much better on average than a K-JD who did nothing but study.
Softs do matter. This is my first cycle, but I've already been accepted at schools where LSN gave someone with my numbers a 10-20% chance. I think most people just overestimate how good their softs are. They think that being in an intramural softball league will make up for a below median LSAT. Perhaps your softs are among the minority that are legitimately good.
What's your opinion on internships?
Probably better than nothing but not as good as actual paid employment. Probably helps too if you can point to actual substantive things you did during your internship so people don't assume you just made copies and fetched things.
I'm just spitballing though, I'm a 0L so I could be completely off.
Re: Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:50 pm
by objection_your_honor
OP made Kony 2012?
Re: Why do schools care about softs?
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:59 pm
by patfeeney
TheSpanishMain wrote:patfeeney wrote:TheSpanishMain wrote:Because having an interesting class is also something to brag about. It's probably also correlated with students doing better at job hunting. Someone with other work experience to put on the resume and interesting things to talk about is going to do much better on average than a K-JD who did nothing but study.
Softs do matter. This is my first cycle, but I've already been accepted at schools where LSN gave someone with my numbers a 10-20% chance. I think most people just overestimate how good their softs are. They think that being in an intramural softball league will make up for a below median LSAT. Perhaps your softs are among the minority that are legitimately good.
What's your opinion on internships?
Probably better than nothing but not as good as actual paid employment. I'm just spitballing though, I'm a 0L so I could be completely off.
How about... PAID internships?