Top Law Schools

Posted: **Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:05 pm**

/thread

Posted: **Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:41 pm**

alexjinye wrote:Hi! I am a sophomore studying in a top 20 LAC right now.
I got 3.4ish gpa in my first year, which is pretty disappointing. I think I got this grade because everyone is smart here and professors expectations are demanding too.
I am thinking about transferring to a lower-tier state school in my third year such as Arizona U, Penn State.. I also plan to go to summer schools. I am hoping to pad my gpa in this way. If this is not enough, I am willing to study in college for another year(graduate in 5 years) and in the meantime go to another summer school.
Does this sounds like a plan? should I transfer to another easier university?
advice plz!!!

You will be unpleasantly surprised if you think transferring to a less prestigious school is going to increase your GPA. I don't know what school you go to and how the grade inflation/deflation is there, if any, but you gotta look in the mirror and realize that somebody is getting a higher GPA, so it is possible for you to get better grades. Grades are going to matter (for the most part) when you go to law school and are competing for jobs. You think you won't be around smart students and demanding professors?

Sorry if this comes off a little strong, but I am huge proponent of just accepting personal responsibility for things and hate when people blame things they can control on others. Also, the notion that attending some Top 20 whatever school means that you would get way better grades at a "lower-tier state school" is ridiculous.

Posted: **Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:20 pm**

drevo wrote: You will be unpleasantly surprised if you think transferring to a less prestigious school is going to increase your GPA. I don't know what school you go to and how the grade inflation/deflation is there, if any, but you gotta look in the mirror and realize that somebody is getting a higher GPA, so it is possible for you to get better grades. Grades are going to matter (for the most part) when you go to law school and are competing for jobs. You think you won't be around smart students and demanding professors?

Sorry if this comes off a little strong, but I am huge proponent of just accepting personal responsibility for things and hate when people blame things they can control on others. Also, the notion that attending some Top 20 whatever school means that you would get way better grades at a "lower-tier state school" is ridiculous.

alright, I am just sayin that I want to get perfect grades in my rest of college years to make up for my shitty 1st year, but it is very hard to get perfect grades here.I am expecting to see my gpa goes up this semester, it just takes some longer time to get used to college life, since I took a year off before I go to college.

I am not tryin to escape, I just thought go to a less prestigious school can make my grades even better.

Posted: **Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:24 pm**

alexjinye wrote:
drevo wrote: You will be unpleasantly surprised if you think transferring to a less prestigious school is going to increase your GPA. I don't know what school you go to and how the grade inflation/deflation is there, if any, but you gotta look in the mirror and realize that somebody is getting a higher GPA, so it is possible for you to get better grades. Grades are going to matter (for the most part) when you go to law school and are competing for jobs. You think you won't be around smart students and demanding professors?

Sorry if this comes off a little strong, but I am huge proponent of just accepting personal responsibility for things and hate when people blame things they can control on others. Also, the notion that attending some Top 20 whatever school means that you would get way better grades at a "lower-tier state school" is ridiculous.
alright, I am just sayin that I want to get perfect grades in my rest of college years to make up for my shitty 1st year, but it is very hard to get perfect grades here.I am expecting to see my gpa goes up this semester, it just takes some longer time to get used to college life, since I took a year off before I go to college.

I am not tryin to escape, I just thought go to a less prestigious school can make my grades even better.

You sound so immature. What is your major?

Posted: **Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:30 pm**

NanaP wrote:
alexjinye wrote:
drevo wrote: You will be unpleasantly surprised if you think transferring to a less prestigious school is going to increase your GPA. I don't know what school you go to and how the grade inflation/deflation is there, if any, but you gotta look in the mirror and realize that somebody is getting a higher GPA, so it is possible for you to get better grades. Grades are going to matter (for the most part) when you go to law school and are competing for jobs. You think you won't be around smart students and demanding professors?

Sorry if this comes off a little strong, but I am huge proponent of just accepting personal responsibility for things and hate when people blame things they can control on others. Also, the notion that attending some Top 20 whatever school means that you would get way better grades at a "lower-tier state school" is ridiculous.
alright, I am just sayin that I want to get perfect grades in my rest of college years to make up for my shitty 1st year, but it is very hard to get perfect grades here.I am expecting to see my gpa goes up this semester, it just takes some longer time to get used to college life, since I took a year off before I go to college.

I am not tryin to escape, I just thought go to a less prestigious school can make my grades even better.
You sound so immature. What is your major?

polisci probably

Posted: **Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:32 pm**

Hey, the above respondents might be right, but depending on the LAC OP is asking a very good question. If OP's school curves to a B- or whatever and only give < 10% of the class A's, then OP is neither immature or academically inadequate (necessarily) for asking it. It may in fact be the case that OP is both, but I think it might be best to take him/her at their word, because such colleges do in fact exist, and to offer some advice relevant to his/her situation.

OP: I'm not making a judgement either way because I don't know your school, but if you're at Swarthmore or Reed or something then your question is at least valid, and I'd hope that someone more knowledgeable than me will come along and treat it as such.

Posted: **Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:35 pm**

drevo wrote:Also, the notion that attending some Top 20 whatever school means that you would get way better grades at a "lower-tier state school" is ridiculous.

lol at this. again depending of the school of course, but if OP's college is actively grade deflating then of course they would do better (GPA wise) at some State U.

Posted: **Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:42 pm**

Pneumonia wrote:Hey, the above respondents might be right, but depending on the LAC OP is asking a very good question. If OP's school curves to a B- or whatever and only give < 10% of the class A's, then OP is neither immature or academically inadequate (necessarily) for asking it. It may in fact be the case that OP is both, but I think it might be best to take him/her at their word, because such colleges do in fact exist, and to offer some advice relevant to his/her situation.

OP: I'm not making a judgement either way because I don't know your school, but if you're at Swarthmore or Reed or something then your question is at least valid, and I'd hope that someone more knowledgeable than me will come along and treat it as such.

neither of these school, but clearly on the same level! always ranked within top 20 range!! I guess this can tell something.

BTW, can you guys stop judging me? I don't care about those judgement and I am really lookin for some thoughts on this.

Posted: **Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:48 pm**

If you're 100% sure you want to go to law school, then your goal should be to get the highest GPA possible, independent of which school you're attending.

That said, I'm not sure you can or should be 100% set on law school as a sophomore. What happens if you get to senior year and decide law school isn't for you? You might regret not having stayed at your school.

Posted: **Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:49 pm**

Pneumonia wrote:
drevo wrote:Also, the notion that attending some Top 20 whatever school means that you would get way better grades at a "lower-tier state school" is ridiculous.
lol at this. again depending of the school of course, but if OP's college is actively grade deflating then of course they would do better (GPA wise) at some State U.

thank you for your explanation

Posted: **Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:51 pm**

it's going to be hard to give specific advice, but it is true that if you are 100% set on law school, then you should get the best GPA possible using whatever means necessary. The caveat being that there are pretty much zero sophomores that have good reasons for being 100% committed to law school.

Staying at your current UG isn't a bad idea, and if you can pad yourself to above a 3.5 then you'll be in good shape at all but they top 3 law schools if you can get a good enough LSAT.

eta: scooped by wiz

Posted: **Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:52 pm**

drevo wrote:Also, the notion that attending some Top 20 whatever school means that you would get way better grades at a "lower-tier state school" is ridiculous.

Also 2, calling the higher GPA notion ridiculous is ridiculous.

Posted: **Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:06 am**

Pneumonia wrote:it's going to be hard to give specific advice, but it is true that if you are 100% set on law school, then you should get the best GPA possible using whatever means necessary. The caveat being that there are pretty much zero sophomores that have good reasons for being 100% committed to law school.

Staying at your current UG isn't a bad idea, and if you can pad yourself to above a 3.5 then you'll be in good shape at all but they top 3 law schools if you can get a good enough LSAT.

eta: scooped by wiz

agree...That is why I am confused and decide to seek help here.
I am sure I can pull my gpa up to a 3.7 level in the end, but it is not enough for the very top law school.
It is not the end of the world if I stay in this school, but going to another school can presumably give me a better shot at law school.

Posted: **Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:16 am**

NanaP wrote:
alexjinye wrote:
drevo wrote: You will be unpleasantly surprised if you think transferring to a less prestigious school is going to increase your GPA. I don't know what school you go to and how the grade inflation/deflation is there, if any, but you gotta look in the mirror and realize that somebody is getting a higher GPA, so it is possible for you to get better grades. Grades are going to matter (for the most part) when you go to law school and are competing for jobs. You think you won't be around smart students and demanding professors?

Sorry if this comes off a little strong, but I am huge proponent of just accepting personal responsibility for things and hate when people blame things they can control on others. Also, the notion that attending some Top 20 whatever school means that you would get way better grades at a "lower-tier state school" is ridiculous.
alright, I am just sayin that I want to get perfect grades in my rest of college years to make up for my shitty 1st year, but it is very hard to get perfect grades here.I am expecting to see my gpa goes up this semester, it just takes some longer time to get used to college life, since I took a year off before I go to college.

I am not tryin to escape, I just thought go to a less prestigious school can make my grades even better.
You sound so immature. What is your major?

You sound like a dick(ette).

Undergrad prestige is useful in job placement. It's not necessary or sufficient, but helpful.

Posted: **Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:16 am**

I wouldn't switch schools because you can't hack it. Especially if the reason is that everyone else around you is too smart. Find a way to get it done, if you believe you deserve to go to a top school then prove it by getting the grades you need at the present school. You can't just switch when you go to law school, if what your doing isn't working then find a way to adapt and make it work. Only the results matter, figure out what you need to do to achieve the results you want and work towards it. Most undergrad struggles can be solved by putting the extra effort in, even if it means putting 10X the effort of your friends.

Posted: **Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:18 am**

Pneumonia wrote:
drevo wrote:Also, the notion that attending some Top 20 whatever school means that you would get way better grades at a "lower-tier state school" is ridiculous.
lol at this. again depending of the school of course, but if OP's college is actively grade deflating then of course they would do better (GPA wise) at some State U.

Thanks for the obvious. Many state schools grade deflate as well (being from CA there a quite a few UCs and CSUs with 2.7-2.9 or so average GPAs). I even stated I did not know about OP's school in regards to deflation or deflation and that without that information you can't say definitively, but my general statement still stands. Especially the way it came off as the OP stating "curves too hard, others are too smart, not my fault." Obviously if he transfers from a a school that has harsh grade deflation to one that has severe inflation then that doesn't hold. Again all of that was mentioned right above it to qualify my statement you quoted.

OP, if your school deflates pretty bad then sure leaving could help. But don't expect to show up to a non-prestigious school and think you're set because the people around you aren't "as smart" as your current UG. Also, I don't know your connection to your UG and your friends there or the geographical area, but I agree with others to not rush to a decision to leave all of that behind to set yourself up for law school that you may end up not wanting to go to.

Posted: **Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:29 am**

All the poli sci majors at State will be trying for those A's as well.

Posted: **Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:37 am**

alexjinye wrote:Hi! I am a sophomore studying in a top 20 LAC right now.
I got 3.4ish gpa in my first year, which is pretty disappointing. I think I got this grade because everyone is smart here and professors expectations are demanding too.
I am thinking about transferring to a lower-tier state school in my third year such as Arizona U, Penn State

University of Ariz. and PSU aren't "easy" schools, OP. They are solid in academics. Unless you know for sure the school and major you'd be transferring into is "easy," then this would be a gamble just for the purpose of boosting your GPA.

Although if you have other reasons for wanting to transfer, then that might be different.

Also, people tend to do better in the later years of UG once they're in their major and taking classes in a program they're good at/interested in. Just some things to think about.

Posted: **Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:05 am**

I don't think that "should I transfer to get a better GPA and improve my chances at law school?" is a ridiculous question.

But assuming that Top 20 LAC = RIGOR and grade deflation is ridiculous. And assuming that lower tier state school or less prestigious school = easy As is also ridiculous.

Read OPs posts. S/he doesn't know whether her/his school has significant grade deflation. S/he is just assuming it does because of its USNWR ranking.

Posted: **Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:20 am**

If you think you'd do better at a lesser prestigious undergrad or an undergrad that is simply easier to do well at, do transfer. You are not immature or whatever some of these folks insist you are, you are just playing the numbers game. Hop off your horses.

Posted: **Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:51 am**

+1 in favor of transferring. Nobody cares how prestigious your UG is if you go to grad school. Go to a cheap state school and, ideally, one that allows A+'s on transcripts. I transferred in UG to a lower ranked school -- admittedly, not in order to inflate my GPA -- and I do not regret it whatsoever. I saved a lot of money and increased my GPA substantially.

Posted: **Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:05 am**

Many top 20s grade INFLATE, and many state schools are absurdly difficult...

Posted: **Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:03 am**

Clearly wrote:Many top 20s grade INFLATE, and many state schools are absurdly difficult...

This must be why, in the Boalt internal study of how hard it is to get A's at various undergraduate institutions, the hardest 17 are all highly-ranked private schools, and the first "state school" (i.e. a state-funded school that is not highly ranked [i.e. UC Berkeley, UVA, etc. wouldn't count]) is #53:

Swarthmore 89.5
Williams 89.0
Duke 88.5
Carleton 88.0
Colgate 88.0
J. Hopkins 87.5
Chicago 87.0
Dartmouth 87.0
Wesleyan 87.0
Cornell 86.5
Harvard 86.5
Middlebury 86.0
Princeton 86.0
Bates 85.5
MIT 85.5
Haverford 85.0
Pomona 85.0
Virginia 85.0
Amherst 84.5
Reed 84.5
Vanderbilt 84.5
Wm & Mary 84.5
Bowdoin 83.5
Tufts 83.5
Vassar 83.5
Bryn Mawr 83.0
Hamilton 83.0
Oberlin 83.0
Rice 83.0
U. Pennsylvania 83.0
Clrmt. McK. 82.5
Yale 82.5
Brandeis 82.0
Northwestern 82.0
Colby 81.5
Michigan 81.5
Notre Dame 81.5
Wash. U. 81.0
Barnard 80.5
Columbia 80.5
Stanford 80.5
Brown 80.0
Georgetown 80.0
Smith 80.0
Wellesley 80.0
Emory 79.5
U. North Carolina 79.5
Whitman C. 79.5
Rochester 79.0
UC Berkeley 78.5
UC San Diego 78.5
Illinois 78.0
SUNY Bing 78.0
Texas 78.0
Trinity U. 77.5
Boston College 77.0
UC S. Barbara 77.0
Wisconsin 77.0
Florida 76.5
U. Washington 76.5
Santa Clara 76.0
Geo. Wash. 75.5
UC Davis 75.5
UCLA 75.5
Colorado 75.0
Michigan State 75.0
Boston University 74.5
Cal Poly SLO 74.5
Massachusetts 74.0
Penn State 74.0
Iowa 73.5
Purdue 73.5
SMU 73.5
SUNY Albany 73.5
BYU 73.0
Minnesota 73.0
Ohio State 73.0
Oregon 73.0
UC Irvine 73.0
Indiana 72.5
NYU 72.0
SUNY Buff 72.0
SUNY Stony 72.0
Mills 71.5
American 71.0
Arizona 71.0
Loyola Mary. 71.0
Maryland 71.0
Fordham 70.5
Kansas 70.0
Syracuse 70.0
USC 70.0
Arizona St. 69.5
CS San Diego 69.5
Catholic U. 69.5
Oklahoma 69.5
Pacific 69.5
Hofstra 69.0
UC Riverside 68.5
Utah 68.5
CS Chico 68.5
Miami 68.0
New Mexico 68.0
San Diego 68.0
CS Northridge 67.0
Pepperdine 67.0
CS San Fran. 66.0
CS Sacramento 65.0
Hawaii 64.5
Denver 63.5
CS Fullerton 63.0
CS Hayward 63.0
CS Long Beach 63.0
CS San Jose 63.0
CS Fresno 62.5
St. Mary's 61.5
CCNY 59.0
CS LA 58.5
Howard 57.5
San Francisco 57.5

tl;dr - yes, it is easier to get higher grades at certain schools, and those schools tend to be lower-ranked "state schools." Granted, private schools are represented in that category as well, but none of them are top 20.

HOWEVER...how would you explain your transfer to law schools?

And how the hell can already you know with any certainty that you want to go to law school? If you transfer but end up deciding law school isn't for you (or can't manage to get a good LSAT score), then you've graduated from Penn State instead of Vassar or w/e and are in a worse place for jobs.

Posted: **Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:23 am**

I agree with a lot of the posters above that if you're 100% sure about law school, your GPA should be your #1 priority. Of course, others have brought up the "what if you decide not to go to law school?" question, and depending on your reasons, that is most likely a valid question. Regardless, the primary thing about changing a grade trend in undergrad is changing your mindset (assuming you aren't just hopelessly incompetent). There are those who party constantly, never study and coast, there are those who spend every moment of free time in the library, and then there's everything in between. I can't speak for every undergrad of course, but in my experience, it isn't like law school - if you have an initial level of intelligence and are TRULY dedicated, you CAN get the grades. I got a 3.2 my first semester of freshman year and will graduate with a 3.9; the change I made was my mindset.

That said, if you do choose to transfer, do your research. Just because a school is significantly lower ranked than another doesn't mean it's easier (I can think of several examples just off the top of my head), so know what you're getting yourself into. Also, while we're choosing schools just for GPA purposes - be sure you go somewhere that gives A+'s. Then earn them.

Posted: **Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:25 am**

While I don't think transferring to get better grades is a worthwhile endeavor, you are simply wrong if you think it isn't generally easier to get A's at a shitty undergrad institution vs. a top one (note I didn't say private vs. public). Assuming things like the same major, and excluding random outlier schools that inflate/deflate excessively, it is most certainly easier a majority of the time.

OP - my advice is work harder at your current school, and just take some easy CC classes if you want an extra boost.

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