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Numbers: 3.7/167

Softs: award for "outstanding" honors thesis senior year; community service work including a leadership position; two publications in undergraduate journals; typical inclusion into honor societies not unusual of people with good grades in undergrad; two internships -- one in a a district office of my Congressman and another one at a major government agency in DC; current paralegal employment at a V5 in NYC.

Personal statement should be good, and I have very solid recommendations from professors who know me well, as well as one from my boss.

I'm seriously considering a December re-take. I have ties to Pennsylvania and went to undergrad in Philly, so UPenn is (as of right now) my number one choice. I'm below both of their medians right now, which is obviously worrisome. I would love almost any of the T-14 excluding Berkeley, Northwestern and probably Georgetown. I feel like I am on the cusp for most of the schools of which I am interested, but feel a bit uncomfortable with my numbers right now. My post-law school goal is NYC big law.

Thanks for any advice. Also -- hoping to limit this to people who have been through the admissions process recently or otherwise have some actual insight.

Also, since it is relevant, 167 was more or less around my average PT score. My distribution was: LG: -1; LR: -8; RC: -7

I got an unusually high wrong number of RC questions wrong (I misbubbled two of the last three questions in the section). LG was a little better than usual and the only one I got wrong there was a substitution question I pretty much guessed on. Overal LR was around average, although I had been making improvements towards -1/-2 per section going towards the test. Oddly enough LG always killed me in PTs and then on the real thing it was RC.

Yes. You absolutely must retake. The difference between a 3.7/167 and 3.7/170 is absurd. Right now you are out at nearly all the T-14. With a 170, you are in most of them (HYS are crapshoot anyways).

Not getting into most the T14 with a 167. Definitely not Penn. However, if you are set on NY Biglaw, you are most likely in at Cornell. That should get you where you want to go.

If you want $$ or more than a shot in the dark chance at the rest of the T14, a retake is advisable.

I was definitely leaning towards re-taking. Another, related question: Does it make sense to submit applications now with the intention to re-take? I feel like 3.7/167 in this year's cycle is probably good for at least a waitlist at some of the T-14 until I get a higher score. If I am going to re-take, what would be an advisable strategy in terms of submitting applications? Would it make sense to hold off completely until I get another LSAT score? Thanks very much.

Dee32 wrote:I was definitely leaning towards re-taking. Another, related question: Does it make sense to submit applications now with the intention to re-take? I feel like 3.7/167 in this year's cycle is probably good for at least a waitlist at some of the T-14 until I get a higher score. If I am going to re-take, what would be an advisable strategy in terms of submitting applications? Would it make sense to hold off completely until I get another LSAT score? Thanks very much.

You should apply now. Through LSAC and the application process, I'm pretty sure that the law schools will know that you are retaking (I think there is a designated category on the app where you indicate what LSAT dates you previously were and currently are signed up for). That way, your app is in and can be reviewed quickly once your LSAT score comes in.

Someone else should confirm but I'm pretty certain TITCR

Bless wrote:

Dee32 wrote:I was definitely leaning towards re-taking. Another, related question: Does it make sense to submit applications now with the intention to re-take? I feel like 3.7/167 in this year's cycle is probably good for at least a waitlist at some of the T-14 until I get a higher score. If I am going to re-take, what would be an advisable strategy in terms of submitting applications? Would it make sense to hold off completely until I get another LSAT score? Thanks very much.

You should apply now. Through LSAC and the application process, I'm pretty sure that the law schools will know that you are retaking (I think there is a designated category on the app where you indicate what LSAT dates you previously were and currently are signed up for). That way, your app is in and can be reviewed quickly once your LSAT score comes in.

Someone else should confirm but I'm pretty certain TITCR

I would love other opinions on this also! I'm in a similar situation with a 3.73 and 169. My goal is CCN with columbia being my top choice. I don't know whether i should submit now or wait until after i retake. Is it even worth retaking with no guarantee that i can do better? (i have PTed above that a majority of times with a 179 as my highest, but i've also PTed lower than that many times as well)

milkandcheerios wrote:

Bless wrote:

Dee32 wrote:I was definitely leaning towards re-taking. Another, related question: Does it make sense to submit applications now with the intention to re-take? I feel like 3.7/167 in this year's cycle is probably good for at least a waitlist at some of the T-14 until I get a higher score. If I am going to re-take, what would be an advisable strategy in terms of submitting applications? Would it make sense to hold off completely until I get another LSAT score? Thanks very much.

You should apply now. Through LSAC and the application process, I'm pretty sure that the law schools will know that you are retaking (I think there is a designated category on the app where you indicate what LSAT dates you previously were and currently are signed up for). That way, your app is in and can be reviewed quickly once your LSAT score comes in.

Someone else should confirm but I'm pretty certain TITCR

I would love other opinions on this also! I'm in a similar situation with a 3.73 and 169. My goal is CCN with columbia being my top choice. I don't know whether i should submit now or wait until after i retake. Is it even worth retaking with no guarantee that i can do better? (i have PTed above that a majority of times with a 179 as my highest, but i've also PTed lower than that many times as well)

I applied to school while my retake was pending. All my admissions were held until. Got my score back, so I don't know how helpful it was. But it was helpful inje sense of schools having all my materials but the score.

Dee32 wrote:I was definitely leaning towards re-taking. Another, related question: Does it make sense to submit applications now with the intention to re-take? I feel like 3.7/167 in this year's cycle is probably good for at least a waitlist at some of the T-14 until I get a higher score. If I am going to re-take, what would be an advisable strategy in terms of submitting applications? Would it make sense to hold off completely until I get another LSAT score? Thanks very much.

I applied as a 3.7/167 to schools I thought I had a good shot at (Cornell, UT, USC, etc.) when I had a retake pending. I also applied to Duke because they gave me a PT invite and I got in but in retrospect maybe that was a dumb decision. I held off on apps to places like UVA and Penn until I got my retake score back and then applied. I should mention that my retake was in October, not December.

Not sure if any of that helps. If I were you I would probably just wait until the score is released on the off chance you somehow get rejected from a school you would have been accepted to with the higher score. Or, maybe just email them all and ask to wait for the retake to come in?

BigZuck wrote:If I were you I would probably just wait until the score is released on the off chance you somehow get rejected from a school you would have been accepted to with the higher score. Or, maybe just email them all and ask to wait for the retake to come in?

I think they almost always wait for your score to come in, which is basically the underlying reason to apply right away.

Bless wrote:

BigZuck wrote:If I were you I would probably just wait until the score is released on the off chance you somehow get rejected from a school you would have been accepted to with the higher score. Or, maybe just email them all and ask to wait for the retake to come in?

I think they almost always wait for your score to come in, which is basically the underlying reason to apply right away.

Nope. UT, Duke, Minnesota, and I think Cornell and maybe UCLA (I can't remember but you can check my LSN if you care) all accepted me while I had a retake pending. They don't all automatically just hold off to look at your application when you are signed up to retake unless you tell them.

BigZuck wrote:

Bless wrote:

BigZuck wrote:If I were you I would probably just wait until the score is released on the off chance you somehow get rejected from a school you would have been accepted to with the higher score. Or, maybe just email them all and ask to wait for the retake to come in?

I think they almost always wait for your score to come in, which is basically the underlying reason to apply right away.

Nope. UT, Duke, Minnesota, and I think Cornell and maybe UCLA (I can't remember but you can check my LSN if you care) all accepted me while I had a retake pending. They don't all automatically just hold off to look at your application when you are signed up to retake unless you tell them.

If they like your numbers, it makes sense that they would accept you before the retake. I am referring to the guy who doesn't have the numbers (i.e., OP) -- I don't think schools will deny you based on your previous LSAT if they see you have one pending. They will wait to see your new score.

Bless wrote:

BigZuck wrote:

Bless wrote:

BigZuck wrote:If I were you I would probably just wait until the score is released on the off chance you somehow get rejected from a school you would have been accepted to with the higher score. Or, maybe just email them all and ask to wait for the retake to come in?

I think they almost always wait for your score to come in, which is basically the underlying reason to apply right away.

Nope. UT, Duke, Minnesota, and I think Cornell and maybe UCLA (I can't remember but you can check my LSN if you care) all accepted me while I had a retake pending. They don't all automatically just hold off to look at your application when you are signed up to retake unless you tell them.

If they like your numbers, it makes sense that they would accept you before the retake. I am referring to the guy who doesn't have the numbers (i.e., OP) -- I don't think schools will deny you based on your previous LSAT if they see you have one pending. They will wait to see your new score.

At least in my experience, all the lower T14 waited to render a decision until I got my new score.