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OK guys so it seems like I have a major issue, which initially I thought would be no biggie at all. So during my undergrad there was a rule among students where you could fail a course or multiple courses up to three times before having that fail actually count. Otherwise those fails would simply be replaced by a higher grade that you have received in the same course. So knowing this, I completely blew off a very difficult class three consecutive times (didn't even show up to class, knowing that those F's would eventually be replaced) until I finally tried in the class and ended up with a "B". My undergrad GPA completely disregarded these three "F's," however it has come to my attention that not only does the LSDAS GPA include these three "F's" but they also frown upon any "F's" in general, not to mention 3 "F's" for the same course! I am completely disheartened and I know I should write an addendum without question, but how badly would law schools look at these three "F's" in the same course. Should I just make something up? Honestly, I don't even know a story that would validate failing a course three times except for the fact that I knew these "F's" wouldn't count towards my undergrad GPA. I desperately need some advice kind souls...

I don't think there is a whole lot to say here, unfortunately. I can't think of a good addendum for "I failed a class three times (with an F, no less), and passed with a B on my fourth try."

Still, I don't think it'll be any more frowned upon than any other string of Fs. What's your GPA?

Man this sucks so bad. The thing is, I didn't even try when I got those "F's," I just didn't show up to class because I know I had three gimme's. My GPA is pretty horrendous I have a 2.65, wasn't even planning to go to law school, just wanted to get my BA and be out. I got a 165 on the LSAT, am a superb writer, have a killer resume and extra curriculars. I'm going for a 170+ this December, but I'm still extremely worried about those "F's." Someone, anyone out there has to have some positive input...I had no idea that law schools counted grades that undergrad's didn't count until literally 24 hours ago and I have been working extremely hard for the past 6 months, its so depressing.

Have you never heard of a withdrawal? D=

This is rare that an UG would let you take the class three times before they count the F. I would comment on this and say that you did not realize it was going to count in LS. You could speak with your pre-law counselor for help as well

Why did you keep signing up and paying for classes if you weren't going to try? This seems to be as poor judgment as taking the Fs. You may need a sentence answering this question too.

The reality of law school admissions is that it is mostly a numbers game. Law schools have to report the median GPA and LSAT for each accepted class to US News and World Report, a and those numbers affect the school's ranking. These are two of the few ranking factors that schools can actually control, so they matter a lot. So if your GPA is below the target median GPA for a school, you are at a huge disadvantage and the probability of your acceptance is greatly diminished, regardless of your other positive qualities.

I don't mean to bring you down, but there's not much an addendum will do to fix this issue. The best you can do is maximize your LSAT and apply to splitter-friendly schools. Good luck.

Rotor wrote:Why did you keep signing up and paying for classes if you weren't going to try? This seems to be as poor judgment as taking the Fs. You may need a sentence answering this question too.

I would agree with this, in part because there's a thing where students sign up for classes to get the financial aid, then never show up and take the F because they were registered just to get the FA money. Not at all saying you were doing this, but someone looking at your record might think so?

.

heatnationla wrote:Man this sucks so bad. The thing is, I didn't even try when I got those "F's," I just didn't show up to class because I know I had three gimme's. My GPA is pretty horrendous I have a 2.65, wasn't even planning to go to law school, just wanted to get my BA and be out. I got a 165 on the LSAT, am a superb writer, have a killer resume and extra curriculars. I'm going for a 170+ this December, but I'm still extremely worried about those "F's." Someone, anyone out there has to have some positive input...I had no idea that law schools counted grades that undergrad's didn't count until literally 24 hours ago and I have been working extremely hard for the past 6 months, its so depressing.

Is that 2.65 with or without the 3 Fs factored in?

I feel like your reason will hurt you rather than help you. It looks lazy and short-sighted. The only thing I think you could say is that you were especially challenged by this course, and wanted to prove to yourself that you could master the material so you decided to retake until you could pass it. But if it's like Fundamentals of Music Appreciation, that's not going to be believable.

There is no silver lining to this if your only excuse is laziness.

bp shinners wrote:

heatnationla wrote:Man this sucks so bad. The thing is, I didn't even try when I got those "F's," I just didn't show up to class because I know I had three gimme's. My GPA is pretty horrendous I have a 2.65, wasn't even planning to go to law school, just wanted to get my BA and be out. I got a 165 on the LSAT, am a superb writer, have a killer resume and extra curriculars. I'm going for a 170+ this December, but I'm still extremely worried about those "F's." Someone, anyone out there has to have some positive input...I had no idea that law schools counted grades that undergrad's didn't count until literally 24 hours ago and I have been working extremely hard for the past 6 months, its so depressing.

Is that 2.65 with or without the 3 Fs factored in?

Good question- is 2.65 your LSAC GPA or your GPA according to your undergrad?

Can you try talking to your registrar and petition for a retroactive withdrawal?

wiz wrote:Can you try talking to your registrar and petition for a retroactive withdrawal?

While possibly worth a try, I've never heard of a registrar's office granting a retroactive withdrawal without some type of legit excuse for what happened (illness being the only thing I can think of off the top of my head, but that's hard when it's over 3 semesters and this is the only class where there was an issue).

Hey guys I appreciate all the feedback and will give you a little more insight pertaining to the questions you've all asked me. My undergrad GPA was 2.65 so I'm guessing my LSDAS GPA would be somewhere around 2.4, however I did take three community college courses that I got A's in so that will bump it back up to maybe a 2.58 - 2.60. So my understanding from what you've all told me is that an addendum won't do much, so should I even bother writing one? Also, in response to shifty_eyed - "I feel like your reason will hurt you rather than help you. It looks lazy and short-sighted. The only thing I think you could say is that you were especially challenged by this course, and wanted to prove to yourself that you could master the material so you decided to retake until you could pass it. But if it's like Fundamentals of Music Appreciation, that's not going to be believable." The course was actually the hardest course of my undergraduate career, but even so I don't think getting a B in the class would be considered mastering the material. I've been thinking about my undergrad GPA lately and the only thing I have going for me is that it's been almost three years since I graduated college so maybe I could make a case saying how I have matured through work and life experiences. I don't know how much this will weigh though because I know that law schools only look at two things - GPA and LSAT. Also, johngreen, you said, "This is rare that an UG would let you take the class three times before they count the F. I would comment on this and say that you did not realize it was going to count in LS. You could speak with your pre-law counselor for help as well." So do you recommend I take this up with my school and see if they will do anything? I will also try to talk to my school about a possible retroactive withdrawal, but don't withdrawals also count as F's as well?

bp shinners wrote:

wiz wrote:Can you try talking to your registrar and petition for a retroactive withdrawal?

While possibly worth a try, I've never heard of a registrar's office granting a retroactive withdrawal without some type of legit excuse for what happened (illness being the only thing I can think of off the top of my head, but that's hard when it's over 3 semesters and this is the only class where there was an issue).

Yeah, I haven't either. I've never withdrawn from a class, so I don't even know how it works. But I figured the worst the school could say is no.

heatnationla wrote: I will also try to talk to my school about a possible retroactive withdrawal, but don't withdrawals also count as F's as well?

I think it depends whether it's a punitive or non-punitive withdrawal. If you can get the F's on your transcript replaced with W's, your LSAC GPA should pretty much match your college GPA.

Write an addendum since you have been out about 3 years and argue that you have matured.

However, I doubt any addendum will help you overcome this. I cannot think of a reason why a reasonable person would ever enroll in a class 3 times with the intention of not passing it. Your best bet is to simply say, I am stupid, I screwed up because that is the truth. I don't exactly see how you will argue that you have matured either, but it's the only angle I can think of. Hey adcom, I haven't enrolled in a class for three whole years with the intention of failing it, I'm mature now.

Happy Gilmore wrote:Write an addendum since you have been out about 3 years and argue that you have matured.

However, I doubt any addendum will help you overcome this. I cannot think of a reason why a reasonable person would ever enroll in a class 3 times with the intention of not passing it. Your best bet is to simply say, I am stupid, I screwed up because that is the truth. I don't exactly see how you will argue that you have matured either, but it's the only angle I can think of. Hey adcom, I haven't enrolled in a class for three whole years with the intention of failing it, I'm mature now.

I think the good news for OP is that the adcomms won't really care about his maturity level that much. The bad news, again, is that they won't care much about anything other than his GPA.

How much does it matter anyway? He has, at best, a 2.65.

This has to be a troll...
How did you keep taking the course without actually asking anyone who works for the university and knows instead of your friends who know about as little as you do?

KD35 wrote:This has to be a troll...
How did you keep taking the course without actually asking anyone who works for the university and knows instead of your friends who know about as little as you do?

Lol, I'm not a troll dude, trust me, who the hell trolls on a law school forum anyway? Look at my previous posts, I'm just a clueless 20 something that just decided to go to law school 6 months ago, about 2.5 years after I graduated. It was a well known fact at my university, that you get three grades that you can replace with no penalty. The "F" is just disregarded. I always had this in the back of my mind. The class was upper division writing, first homework assignment was a 10 page research paper, I never got past page 1 and just stopped going to class after because I knew I had three chances to actually try. Anyway, thanks to everyone that actually tried to help me, I really appreciate it because I do not have a pre-law advisor or anyone who I can really confide in when it comes to law schools apps. Regardless, I understand that there's very little I can do and I just have to live with my GPA, write a somewhat captivating addendum and maximize my LSAT score. T3, here I come!

heatnationla wrote:

KD35 wrote:This has to be a troll...
How did you keep taking the course without actually asking anyone who works for the university and knows instead of your friends who know about as little as you do?

Lol, I'm not a troll dude, trust me, who the hell trolls on a law school forum anyway? Look at my previous posts, I'm just a clueless 20 something that just decided to go to law school 6 months ago, about 2.5 years after I graduated. It was a well known fact at my university, that you get three grades that you can replace with no penalty. The "F" is just disregarded. I always had this in the back of my mind. The class was upper division writing, first homework assignment was a 10 page research paper, I never got past page 1 and just stopped going to class after because I knew I had three chances to actually try. Anyway, thanks to everyone that actually tried to help me, I really appreciate it because I do not have a pre-law advisor or anyone who I can really confide in when it comes to law schools apps. Regardless, I understand that there's very little I can do and I just have to live with my GPA, write a somewhat captivating addendum and maximize my LSAT score. T3, here I come!

Why do you want to go to law school? Shouldn't you maybe spend more than six months thinking about a decision that could be potentially devastating to your financial situation forever?

I was also hoping your class was o-chem or liquid propulsion dynamics or something hard like that.

I had a sub-3.0 GPA, 170+ LSAT and ended up at a respectable T-20 with a decent scholarship. I had a few WFs and there were two courses in particular I had to take several times before passing. For me, this was because I screwed up my first semester and lost all access to financial aid and ended up working 60+ hours through most of my time in UG. I wrote an addendum explaining my reasons for having to work full time while going to school, and my cycle turned out pretty predictably save the school I actually ended up going to.

Unless your reasons really were pure laziness, do some thinking about the circumstances in your life at the time and how you could possibly spin it in a positive way. I had the good fortune to have actually gotten my life together and started applying myself to school the last two years of my undergrad, but the discrepancies between LSAC's policies and my undergrad's still led to my GPA taking a nosedive once I sent in all my transcripts. I think being really candid and open about the flaws in my academic record, being on top of everything during the admissions process, and, most importantly, applying myself to LSAT studying was enough to make up for the sins my stupid 20-year-old self committed.

Don't settle for a T3. I almost didn't bother applying to the school I ended up attending since they're not traditionally nice to splitters, but I'm happy I went out on a limb and did it. Crack a 170+ and put together a good, cohesive narrative. However, be okay with the idea that if you can't score well on the LSAT, or if your applications don't put you in a good school-to-debt ratio, you might need to find another path for your life.

redsox wrote:How much does it matter anyway? He has, at best, a 2.65.

+1. Obviously a retroactive withdrawal would be nice but the difference between a 2.65 and a 2.4 is negligible. 2.65 is really low.