Top Law Schools

My brother & best friend got a DWI, has a C&F problem now. dropped charges...diversion program...arrest record maintained (15 months b4 apps will be submitted) (coupled with volunteer work w/ MADD and ALOT other volunteer work, good softs). Looking at top schools, no other record of alcohol problems. Intense rehabilitation & therapy & sobriety sought and maintained since. How skrewed is he? 3.8 172 (retaking in OCtober with hope of 175+. Top as in YHSCVGULC.

Even when people do the right things afterward, DWI/DUI is a significant negative at top schools. He had very little chance at YHS with his numbers as it was, and he has effectively no shot now. It's hard for me to say for all of the lower T14, because I've only seen this for a small number of applicants. I predict an unpredictable cycle lies ahead. Schools are likely to be slightly more "forgiving" now than they were three or four years ago, but he's still going to lose large amounts of scholarship money if he gets admitted.

I'll take your word for it. Though just from knowing him personally, it was a little more than "just doing the right thing", it was changing his lifestyle, direction. Which I believe had a lot do with his academic/professional success. But if they truly only see DUI/DWI for only what it is, then I can see it not mattering too much. It would heartbreaking for him not to get into some great schools, he really has worked tremendously hard since such behavior.

clay7676 wrote:I'll take your word for it. Though just from knowing him personally, it was a little more than "just doing the right thing", it was changing his lifestyle, direction. Which I believe had a lot do with his academic/professional success. But if they truly only see DUI/DWI for only what it is, then I can see it not mattering too much. It would heartbreaking for him not to get into some great schools, he really has worked tremendously hard since such behavior.

You mean driving drunk? Yes they see it as it is. He may need to work for a couple of years to get time between his arrest and his application. Remember he will be competing against applicants who have the same or better credentials and who don't have any C &F issues.

He could go ahead and apply and see where he gets in this year. It doesn't hurt him to do that as far as I know.

I guess it can't hurt. He says he thought they may overlook one incident given good scores and contribution to society. I guess we will see where he gets in. He hopes to write a stellar diversity statement coupling this arrest and dropped charges with his personal issues behind it all. Pray for him please, his name is Jack, and thanks for the advice.

clay7676 wrote:I guess it can't hurt. He says he thought they may overlook one incident given good scores and contribution to society. I guess we will see where he gets in. He hopes to write a stellar diversity statement coupling this arrest and dropped charges with his personal issues behind it all. Pray for him please, his name is Jack, and thanks for the advice.

lol @ praying for drunks...

Regulus wrote:

clay7676 wrote:I guess it can't hurt. He says he thought they may overlook one incident given good scores and contribution to society. I guess we will see where he gets in. He hopes to write a stellar diversity statement coupling this arrest and dropped charges with his personal issues behind it all. Pray for him please, his name is Jack, and thanks for the advice.

lol @ praying for drunks...

Who said he's a drunk? People make mistakes... Don't be an asshole.

Regulus wrote:

clay7676 wrote:I guess it can't hurt. He says he thought they may overlook one incident given good scores and contribution to society. I guess we will see where he gets in. He hopes to write a stellar diversity statement coupling this arrest and dropped charges with his personal issues behind it all. Pray for him please, his name is Jack, and thanks for the advice.

lol @ praying for drunks...

I'm sorry, but I think he should be in jail.

clay7676 wrote:My brother & best friend got a DWI, has a C&F problem now. dropped charges...diversion program...arrest record maintained (15 months b4 apps will be submitted) (coupled with volunteer work w/ MADD and ALOT other volunteer work, good softs). Looking at top schools, no other record of alcohol problems. Intense rehabilitation & therapy & sobriety sought and maintained since. How skrewed is he? 3.8 172 (retaking in OCtober with hope of 175+. Top as in YHSCVGULC.

Given the likely unpredictability of his upcoming cycle, he should be sending apps to the entire top-14, not just whatever the bolded amalgam above is.

dowu wrote:

Regulus wrote:

clay7676 wrote:I guess it can't hurt. He says he thought they may overlook one incident given good scores and contribution to society. I guess we will see where he gets in. He hopes to write a stellar diversity statement coupling this arrest and dropped charges with his personal issues behind it all. Pray for him please, his name is Jack, and thanks for the advice.

lol @ praying for drunks...

Who said he's a drunk? People make mistakes... Don't be an asshole.

This kind of "mistake" could have resulted in a loss of life. How would you feel if you lost a child, friend, or family member because of one of these morons? This shit happens everyday.

ManoftheHour wrote:

Regulus wrote:

clay7676 wrote:I guess it can't hurt. He says he thought they may overlook one incident given good scores and contribution to society. I guess we will see where he gets in. He hopes to write a stellar diversity statement coupling this arrest and dropped charges with his personal issues behind it all. Pray for him please, his name is Jack, and thanks for the advice.

lol @ praying for drunks...

I'm sorry, but I think he should be in jail.

For what? Having paid his debt to society and then some?

dowu wrote:

Regulus wrote:

clay7676 wrote:I guess it can't hurt. He says he thought they may overlook one incident given good scores and contribution to society. I guess we will see where he gets in. He hopes to write a stellar diversity statement coupling this arrest and dropped charges with his personal issues behind it all. Pray for him please, his name is Jack, and thanks for the advice.

lol @ praying for drunks...

Who said he's a drunk? People make mistakes... Don't be an asshole.

Drinking and driving is a mistake you should go to jail for

blameitonbuddy wrote:

ManoftheHour wrote:

Regulus wrote:

clay7676 wrote:I guess it can't hurt. He says he thought they may overlook one incident given good scores and contribution to society. I guess we will see where he gets in. He hopes to write a stellar diversity statement coupling this arrest and dropped charges with his personal issues behind it all. Pray for him please, his name is Jack, and thanks for the advice.

lol @ praying for drunks...

I'm sorry, but I think he should be in jail.

For what? Having paid his debt to society and then some?

Would you still be singing this tune if it were you that got hit and were paralyzed from waist down for life? One day, you're just minding your own business. Then some asshole runs into you because he's had a bit too much to drink. Your entire life is different now. Let me repeat that: You might have died, or you are unable to walk FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.

It's more common than you think:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2 ... -in-tears/

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories ... -ones.html

This shit is seriously not funny. It's not a small mistake. Countless lives have been ruined by such reckless behavior.

http://www.newyorkwebsite.org/admissions/questions/

There is a live Q&A going on with Mike Spivey, Karen Buttenbaum(former HLS adcomm), and one of the adcomms from NU. Post your question there

First of all, I acknowledge that he made a very serious mistake and has and should take full responsibility for it. Nevertheless, alcoholism (alcohol in general at that) is another serious social and personal problem and while it is by no means an excuse for any malicious behavior, it is commendable when people recover from it and change their lives. Also, while I get that you are mainly speaking in general terms, you don't know the actual facts or context of my brother's particular incident so I find that a little rude. But, like I said, it is by all means his fault and a stupid, deadly mistake. It's heartwarming for me though to see him doing so well and that's why IMO, I hope it is not a definitive "no" for when he applies to law schools.

t-14orbust wrote:http://www.newyorkwebsite.org/admissions/questions/

There is a live Q&A going on with Mike Spivey, Karen Buttenbaum(former HLS adcomm), and one of the adcomms from NU. Post your question there

I will do that, thanks.

clay7676 wrote:First of all, I acknowledge that he made a very serious mistake and has and should take full responsibility for it. Nevertheless, alcoholism (alcohol in general at that) is another serious social and personal problem and while it is by no means an excuse for any malicious behavior, it is commendable when people recover from it and change their lives. Also, while I get that you are mainly speaking in general terms, you don't know the actual facts or context of my brother's particular incident so I find that a little rude. But, like I said, it is by all means his fault and a stupid, deadly mistake. It's heartwarming for me though to see him doing so well and that's why IMO, I hope it is not a definitive "no" for when he applies to law schools.

Fair enough. It's not a definite no. Your brother has good stats and some school MIGHT still take him, especially in this climate.

It doesn't look good though. Schools take this stuff very seriously.

As someone said before, it doesn't hurt to try.

[/quote]Would you still be singing this tune if it were you that got hit and were paralyzed from waist down for life? One day, you're just minding your own business. Then some asshole runs into you because he's had a bit too much to drink. Your entire life is different now. Let me repeat that: You might have died, or you are unable to walk FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.

It's more common than you think:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2 ... -in-tears/

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories ... -ones.html

This shit is seriously not funny. It's not a small mistake. Countless lives have been ruined by such reckless behavior.[/quote]

Am I really on a site for aspiring attorneys? Or has this place turned into a forum whereby self-appointed moral authorities chastise people for making a mistake? The fact of the matter is that in many states, you do go to jail for a DWI/DUI. And in those where you don't, you still maintain the stigma long after you pay for your proverbial sins.

The OP asked for help/advice for his brother. I don't see how some bullshit, ethical diatribe helps him in the least. But I do hope you feel better...as for whether or not I understand how pervasive this problem is, suffice it to say I work in a place that deals with this issue daily. So, in other words, I'm fully aware.

I think everyone's taking my comment the wrong way. I originally just wrote "lol @ praying" (because we all know that praying is an effective way to get a boost in admissions), but then I added the "for drunks" onto the end of my comment because I'm sure that gawd has a special place in his heart for reckless drivers.

Asking random people you don't know on the interwebz to pray for your driving-while-intoxicated brother so that he can go to lawl school is just a very funny thing to request (from an agnostic's / atheist's perspective, at least).

Regulus wrote: I think everyone's taking my comment the wrong way. I originally just wrote "lol @ praying" (because we all know that praying is an effective way to get a boost in admissions), but then I added the "for drunks" onto the end of my comment because I'm sure that gawd has a special place in his heart for reckless drivers.

Asking random people you don't know on the interwebz to pray for your driving-while-intoxicated brother so that he can go to lawl school is just a very funny thing to request (from an agnostic's / atheist's perspective, at least).

I also loled

t-14orbust wrote:http://www.newyorkwebsite.org/admissions/questions/

There is a live Q&A going on with Mike Spivey, Karen Buttenbaum(former HLS adcomm), and one of the adcomms from NU. Post your question there

Ha nice. Thanks for sharing the link. Turned out to be a cool event.

t-14orbust wrote:

Regulus wrote: I think everyone's taking my comment the wrong way. I originally just wrote "lol @ praying" (because we all know that praying is an effective way to get a boost in admissions), but then I added the "for drunks" onto the end of my comment because I'm sure that gawd has a special place in his heart for reckless drivers.

Asking random people you don't know on the interwebz to pray for your driving-while-intoxicated brother so that he can go to lawl school is just a very funny thing to request (from an agnostic's / atheist's perspective, at least).

I also loled

Well if he got into YLS and you had prayed, I'm sure you would be happy to get a nice 'thank you'.

ManoftheHour wrote:

Regulus wrote:

clay7676 wrote:I guess it can't hurt. He says he thought they may overlook one incident given good scores and contribution to society. I guess we will see where he gets in. He hopes to write a stellar diversity statement coupling this arrest and dropped charges with his personal issues behind it all. Pray for him please, his name is Jack, and thanks for the advice.

lol @ praying for drunks...

I'm sorry, but I think he should be in jail.

Estimated BAC=0.08 (because it is estimated) is arbitrary. 0.10 and 0.12 were arbitrary. 0.05, when it comes will be arbitrary.

"He should be in jail" - you might want to move to Scandinavia, where several countries have 0.00 driving limits. They also have considerably greater percentages of their populations that 'binge drinks.' Would you like some WHO statistics?

People, if you want to debate drinking and driving and BAC, you should take it to the lounge.

A. Nony Mouse wrote:People, if you want to debate drinking and driving and BAC, you should take it to the lounge.

Can we take this whole thread to the lounge? It seems like it's outlived it's usefulness, so let people go full ham