Top Law Schools

Can someone explain why people are still applying to law schools (and the law schools not just flat out rejecting them) and taking on huge amounts of debt? To go for instance to Stanford is around $75k/yr (including living expenses). Thats $225k for 3 years! Even with scholarship it knocks it down to $130k lets say, thats still a lot of money. Or consider Cooley which is $55k a year (including living expenses). I don't get why law schools throw this huge smoke screen up, and trick kids (lets be serious at 22, with a liberal arts degree your not that bright) with false dreams (yes some do make it). Its sad and disgusting accruing $100k+ debt from a T3/T4 school and not being able to pay it off.

integralx2 wrote:Can someone explain why people are still applying to law schools (and the law schools not just flat out rejecting them) and taking on huge amounts of debt? To go for instance to Stanford is around $75k/yr (including living expenses). Thats $225k for 3 years! Even with scholarship it knocks it down to $130k lets say, thats still a lot of money. Or consider Cooley which is $55k a year (including living expenses). I don't get why law schools throw this huge smoke screen up, and trick kids (lets be serious at 22, with a liberal arts degree your not that bright) with false dreams (yes some do make it). Its sad and disgusting accruing $100k+ debt from a T3/T4 school and not being able to pay it off.

+1. Let's not consider Stanford a scam and instead stick with schools that truly are bad.

Law school is too expensive? THIS IS TOTALLY NEW INFORMATION.

Dmini7 wrote:

integralx2 wrote:Can someone explain why people are still applying to law schools (and the law schools not just flat out rejecting them) and taking on huge amounts of debt? To go for instance to Stanford is around $75k/yr (including living expenses). Thats $225k for 3 years! Even with scholarship it knocks it down to $130k lets say, thats still a lot of money. Or consider Cooley which is $55k a year (including living expenses). I don't get why law schools throw this huge smoke screen up, and trick kids (lets be serious at 22, with a liberal arts degree your not that bright) with false dreams (yes some do make it). Its sad and disgusting accruing $100k+ debt from a T3/T4 school and not being able to pay it off.

+1. Let's not consider Stanford a scam and instead stick with schools that truly are bad.

I think we can both agree that law has not changed in the last 30 years to warrant the tuition rising to $50k/yr. If you give me the legal education that someone received in the 1970s, I guarantee you people will pass the bars still. THe price for a legal education does not justify it. I was saying Cooley or Stanford it does not matter. Education should not be $50k a year!

integralx2 wrote:

Dmini7 wrote:

integralx2 wrote:Can someone explain why people are still applying to law schools (and the law schools not just flat out rejecting them) and taking on huge amounts of debt? To go for instance to Stanford is around $75k/yr (including living expenses). Thats $225k for 3 years! Even with scholarship it knocks it down to $130k lets say, thats still a lot of money. Or consider Cooley which is $55k a year (including living expenses). I don't get why law schools throw this huge smoke screen up, and trick kids (lets be serious at 22, with a liberal arts degree your not that bright) with false dreams (yes some do make it). Its sad and disgusting accruing $100k+ debt from a T3/T4 school and not being able to pay it off.

+1. Let's not consider Stanford a scam and instead stick with schools that truly are bad.

I think we can both agree that law has not changed in the last 30 years to warrant the tuition rising to $50k/yr. If you give me the legal education that someone received in the 1970s, I guarantee you people will pass the bars still. THe price for a legal education does not justify it. I was saying Cooley or Stanford it does not matter. Education should not be $50k a year!

I found the bolded somewhat funny. Anyways, comparing Stanford to Cooley is a new one. I don't see how you can even compare the two schools.

Yes, the price of law school is incredibly high at almost every school worthy of attending. Either get good grades and a high LSAT or don't go. The people who take on HYS at sticker likely turned down substantial scholarships at other schools. No one is forcing a student to dish out that much money. Sometimes life isn't fair. Oh well. Damn shitboomers.

Paying for law school is a complete scam.

Paying sticker at a t14 CAN be justified in certain circumstances. However, I don't understand how people are going to schools like Hastings and Cooley at sticker price.

Considering that HYS basically guarantee you a job that will earn you the entire tuition amount in a single year, the amounts they're charging are perfectly fine (especially with their LRAPs). To a lesser degree, the same applies to the other T13s. After that, you're basically at a casino paying to play, with worse and worse odds (say, going from Craps to playing video slots) as you head further and further down.

.

integralx2 wrote:(lets be serious at 22, with a liberal arts degree your not that bright)

This is a pathetic flame attempt.

NoWorries wrote:

integralx2 wrote:(lets be serious at 22, with a liberal arts degree your not that bright)quote]

This is a pathetic flame attempt.

C'mon now. Let's be serious.

At top schools where there's reasonable certainty of becoming a lawyer, law school can make good economic sense at sticker. This is taking account of the high-six-figure salaries in big law plus LRAP and IBR. It can further make good career sense and be a good life decision if the applicant, having a reasonable understanding of what lawyering entails, wants to be a lawyer.

Regarding schools like Cooley, it's an uncontroversial proposition that they're not worth attending, even for free.

OP, are you drunk?

Edited

Despite the fact that OP is obviously trolling... he is right, even HYS at sticker is extremely questionable and should not be taken lightly. $260k debt is going to difficult to pay off even on $160k+ salary. Even if you last 4-5 years in biglaw you will have a major chunk of loans left. I will graduate from HYS ~150k in total debt. On a 5-year repayment plan I am looking at around $3k/month payments, or $36k of my first-year post-tax income of 106k. Add in the fact that to make $160k you have to live in a high cost-of-living city (with some exceptions, obviously) and you realize the payoff to law school with a debt even in the more moderate range isn't amazing.

AllTheLawz wrote:Despite the fact that OP is obviously trolling... he is right, even HYS at sticker is extremely questionable and should not be taken lightly. $260k debt is going to difficult to pay off even on $160k+ salary. Even if you last 4-5 years in biglaw you will have a major chunk of loans left. I will graduate from HYS ~150k in total debt. On a 5-year repayment plan I am looking at around $3k/month payments, or $36k of my first-year post-tax income of 106k. Add in the fact that to make $160k you have to live in a high cost-of-living city (with some exceptions, obviously) and you realize the payoff to law school with a debt even in the more moderate range isn't amazing.

70K take home? The horror!

AllTheLawz wrote:Despite the fact that OP is obviously trolling... he is right, even HYS at sticker is extremely questionable and should not be taken lightly. $260k debt is going to difficult to pay off even on $160k+ salary. Even if you last 4-5 years in biglaw you will have a major chunk of loans left. I will graduate from HYS ~150k in total debt. On a 5-year repayment plan I am looking at around $3k/month payments, or $36k of my first-year post-tax income of 106k. Add in the fact that to make $160k you have to live in a high cost-of-living city (with some exceptions, obviously) and you realize the payoff to law school with a debt even in the more moderate range isn't amazing.

By my math it's closer to $45,000 first year when you factor in bonus. That of course rapidly increases. And like BigZuck said this is after-tax, so it equates to something like a $60,000-70,000 salary.

Note also that you're assuming a 5-year repayment plan. But student loan debt is incredibly flexible. There's so reason you can't stretch those payments out. Add PAYE and IBR to the mix, and your dire assessment of the situation starts to look a little over pessimistic.

Egregious anti-Stanford trolling in this thread. Utterly ridiculous

integralx2 wrote:Can someone explain why people are still applying to law schools (and the law schools not just flat out rejecting them) and taking on huge amounts of debt? To go for instance to Stanford is around $75k/yr (including living expenses). Thats $225k for 3 years! Even with scholarship it knocks it down to $130k lets say, thats still a lot of money. Or consider Cooley which is $55k a year (including living expenses). I don't get why law schools throw this huge smoke screen up, and trick kids (lets be serious at 22, with a liberal arts degree your not that bright) with false dreams (yes some do make it). Its sad and disgusting accruing $100k+ debt from a T3/T4 school and not being able to pay it off.

thx

integralx2 wrote:I was saying Cooley or Stanford it does not matter.

Are you really trying to compare TTTThomas Cooley Law to SLS? You, sir, made my day.

hiltopp01 wrote:Egregious anti-Stanford trolling in this thread. Utterly ridiculous

OP is likely butthurt about his SLS auto-rejection.

Stanford is one of the few schools I would be quite fine with paying sticker for.

Overally, yes, everyone knows most schools overcharge big time. But come on, HYS are definitely worth sticker.

I think law school is definitely a risky gamble depending on the school and career options you have. For example, for someone who has no interest in working in biglaw, a school that offers you more money regardless of rank may be a better option especially if you are looking to work in public interest or don't mind working at a small or mid sized firm. I think the whole t14 or bust mindset is a bit overblown but not if you're the type of person that will only be an attorney if you work in biglaw. Thats where tuition being too high comes into play. Everyone's situation is different so it really just depends on your career goals to make the call if law school is worth it or not

ALeal90 wrote:I think law school is definitely a risky gamble depending on the school and career options you have. For example, for someone who has no interest in working in biglaw, a school that offers you more money regardless of rank may be a better option especially if you are looking to work in public interest or don't mind working at a small or mid sized firm. I think the whole t14 or bust mindset is a bit overblown but not if you're the type of person that will only be an attorney if you work in biglaw. Thats where tuition being too high comes into play. Everyone's situation is different so it really just depends on your career goals to make the call if law school is worth it or not

You rang? Alas, I was naive when I first created this account - it should have been HYSorbust.

t-14orbust wrote:

ALeal90 wrote:I think law school is definitely a risky gamble depending on the school and career options you have. For example, for someone who has no interest in working in biglaw, a school that offers you more money regardless of rank may be a better option especially if you are looking to work in public interest or don't mind working at a small or mid sized firm. I think the whole t14 or bust mindset is a bit overblown but not if you're the type of person that will only be an attorney if you work in biglaw. Thats where tuition being too high comes into play. Everyone's situation is different so it really just depends on your career goals to make the call if law school is worth it or not

You rang? Alas, I was naive when I first created this account - it should have been HYSorbust.

So say you go to HYS but decide you don't want the 80 hour work week and no time for family at a big firm and want to work at a friend's firm making half the salary but also working half the hours. Would it makr sense to get into a $150k debt when you could have gone to a lower ranked school at full ride considering you have secured employment upon graduation? I think that would really be a stupid decision. My point is, you have to look at your own situation and what your specific goals are instead of saying "it's HYS or bust" when you can end up in a horrid financial situation.

But then again, I guess those that live with the HYS mindset are perfect for biglaw and are probably in law school just for that

ALeal90 wrote: So say you go to HYS but decide you don't want the 80 hour work week and no time for family at a big firm and want to work at a friend's firm making half the salary but also working half the hours. Would it make sense to get into a $150k debt when you could have gone to a lower ranked school at full ride considering you have secured employment upon graduation? I think that would really be a stupid decision. My point is, you have to look at your own situation and what your specific goals are instead of saying "it's HYS or bust" when you can end up in a horrid financial situation.

I was joking brah, it's relative, we all know that. HYS also have very good LRAP programs so I'd still say they're a good idea, even at sticker.