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High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:02 pm
by Flacco4815
Hello, everyone this is my first time posting and I've looked at these forums for a long time as I contemplate a career in law. Just to clear things up, I know how bad the market is now, how crushing debt can be and how soul sucking big law can be. I do appreciate these topics on this as they have made me more realistic. I have a few general questions as I enter undergrad:
I live in Maryland and will be attending either UMBC (a lower ranked well-respected regional school) or Maryland-College Park the state flagship. at UMBC, I have a 10k scholarship so I can graduate with either no debt or very little. At College Park, I would have to take out loans. I know the general consensus is undergrad does not matter just maximize GPA. I plan to shoot for HYS or a big scholly at another t14, so would UMBC (about half as much and can still get me job experience in Baltimore/DC/Annapolis) be smarter than College Park?
As I mentioned earlier, I live in Maryland and I do plan to stay here career wise. Since I want to make a good amount of money, I know these means big law or mid-law in Baltimore or DC. DC gets discussed on here quite often about the difficulty of landing it, but I haven't been able to find anything about good ole Baltimore. I would not have a problem working in either city but was just curious about the Baltimore market. I assume it's small I know some large firms (Venable, DLA Piper) have offices there and I know there are some midlaw firms with solid low 6 figure salary (I currently intern at a political consulting firm so I often do research on attorneys and law firms there)
tl;dr : more prestigious undergrad school that's close to DC, or scholarship at a smaller state school that's still close located in the DC-Baltimore quarter, and what is the Baltimore market like?
Re: High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:19 pm
by howlery
Flacco4815 wrote: I know the general consensus is undergrad does not matter just maximize GPA.
I think thats all you really need to know. Minimize debt, keep your grades as high as possible, and work for a year or two before applying to law school. You aren't really choosing between State U and Princeton, go with whats cheaper.
The DC market is among the most competitive for law school graduates. I think the quality of the law school you ultimately attend will be way more important than your undergrad in terms of DC firm employment.
Re: High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:21 pm
by EvilClinton
Get off TLS and go out and enjoy being young.
Re: High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:29 pm
by star fox
Flacco4815 wrote:Hello, everyone this is my first time posting and I've looked at these forums for a long time as I contemplate a career in law. Just to clear things up, I know how bad the market is now, how crushing debt can be and how soul sucking big law can be. I do appreciate these topics on this as they have made me more realistic. I have a few general questions as I enter undergrad:
I live in Maryland and will be attending either UMBC (a lower ranked well-respected regional school) or Maryland-College Park the state flagship. at UMBC, I have a 10k scholarship so I can graduate with either no debt or very little. At College Park, I would have to take out loans. I know the general consensus is undergrad does not matter just maximize GPA. I plan to shoot for HYS or a big scholly at another t14, so would UMBC (about half as much and can still get me job experience in Baltimore/DC/Annapolis) be smarter than College Park?
As I mentioned earlier, I live in Maryland and I do plan to stay here career wise. Since I want to make a good amount of money, I know these means big law or mid-law in Baltimore or DC. DC gets discussed on here quite often about the difficulty of landing it, but I haven't been able to find anything about good ole Baltimore. I would not have a problem working in either city but was just curious about the Baltimore market. I assume it's small I know some large firms (Venable, DLA Piper) have offices there and I know there are some midlaw firms with solid low 6 figure salary (I currently intern at a political consulting firm so I often do research on attorneys and law firms there)
tl;dr : more prestigious undergrad school that's close to DC, or scholarship at a smaller state school that's still close located in the DC-Baltimore quarter, and what is the Baltimore market like?
Don't be a sucker like me and pick a Liberal Arts major because you just know you'll go to Law School after college. It's generally a pretty good idea to wait and work for a few years between UG and LS (if you even decide you still want to do it at that point). Balance an easy major with one that will get you a job out of school. I would say the best bet is business, pretty easy.. just a lot of busy work but most business schools are rampant with grade inflation and you'll get a good job out of school.
I know this wasn't your question at all but something I wish I had done (pending college graduate here planning to delay Law School and screwed while looking for jobs).
Re: High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:57 pm
by howlery
john7234797 wrote:Flacco4815 wrote:Hello, everyone this is my first time posting and I've looked at these forums for a long time as I contemplate a career in law. Just to clear things up, I know how bad the market is now, how crushing debt can be and how soul sucking big law can be. I do appreciate these topics on this as they have made me more realistic. I have a few general questions as I enter undergrad:
I live in Maryland and will be attending either UMBC (a lower ranked well-respected regional school) or Maryland-College Park the state flagship. at UMBC, I have a 10k scholarship so I can graduate with either no debt or very little. At College Park, I would have to take out loans. I know the general consensus is undergrad does not matter just maximize GPA. I plan to shoot for HYS or a big scholly at another t14, so would UMBC (about half as much and can still get me job experience in Baltimore/DC/Annapolis) be smarter than College Park?
As I mentioned earlier, I live in Maryland and I do plan to stay here career wise. Since I want to make a good amount of money, I know these means big law or mid-law in Baltimore or DC. DC gets discussed on here quite often about the difficulty of landing it, but I haven't been able to find anything about good ole Baltimore. I would not have a problem working in either city but was just curious about the Baltimore market. I assume it's small I know some large firms (Venable, DLA Piper) have offices there and I know there are some midlaw firms with solid low 6 figure salary (I currently intern at a political consulting firm so I often do research on attorneys and law firms there)
tl;dr : more prestigious undergrad school that's close to DC, or scholarship at a smaller state school that's still close located in the DC-Baltimore quarter, and what is the Baltimore market like?
Don't be a sucker like me and pick a Liberal Arts major because you just know you'll go to Law School after college. It's generally a pretty good idea to wait and work for a few years between UG and LS (if you even decide you still want to do it at that point). Balance an easy major with one that will get you a job out of school. I would say the best bet is business, pretty easy.. just a lot of busy work but most business schools are rampant with grade inflation and you'll get a good job out of school.
I know this wasn't your question at all but something I wish I had done (pending college graduate here planning to delay Law School and screwed while looking for jobs).
But don't force yourself to study something you'll do poorly in either. If math has never been your strong suit then don't double major in Econ or something. Try supplementing whatever you study with internships and part-time jobs that could lead to employment after graduation. If you're still interested in politics I'm sure you can land a paying gig with some connections and a few internships under your belt. DC/MD is a great place for this, so sticking around seems like a good idea.
I also don't see how a business major will lead to a job, since they don't really learn anything and there are so many of them.
Re: High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:10 pm
by cahwc12
Flacco4815 wrote:Hello, everyone this is my first time posting and I've looked at these forums for a long time as I contemplate a career in law. Just to clear things up, I know how bad the market is now, how crushing debt can be and how soul sucking big law can be. I do appreciate these topics on this as they have made me more realistic. I have a few general questions as I enter undergrad:
I live in Maryland and will be attending either UMBC (a lower ranked well-respected regional school) or Maryland-College Park the state flagship. at UMBC, I have a 10k scholarship so I can graduate with either no debt or very little. At College Park, I would have to take out loans. I know the general consensus is undergrad does not matter just maximize GPA. I plan to shoot for HYS or a big scholly at another t14, so would UMBC (about half as much and can still get me job experience in Baltimore/DC/Annapolis) be smarter than College Park?
As I mentioned earlier, I live in Maryland and I do plan to stay here career wise. Since I want to make a good amount of money, I know these means big law or mid-law in Baltimore or DC. DC gets discussed on here quite often about the difficulty of landing it, but I haven't been able to find anything about good ole Baltimore. I would not have a problem working in either city but was just curious about the Baltimore market. I assume it's small I know some large firms (Venable, DLA Piper) have offices there and I know there are some midlaw firms with solid low 6 figure salary (I currently intern at a political consulting firm so I often do research on attorneys and law firms there)
tl;dr : more prestigious undergrad school that's close to DC, or scholarship at a smaller state school that's still close located in the DC-Baltimore quarter, and what is the Baltimore market like?
Your undergrad institution will basically matter shit all. Go to UMBC for at least two years with no debt, and if you want to transfer after completing your AA, do it. It doesn't matter where you take introductory american history or pre-calculus.
Re: High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:16 pm
by PRgradBYU
EvilClinton wrote:Get off TLS and go out and enjoy being young.
Seriously, it's way too early for you to be on TLS, OP. Just don't slack around too much your freshman year and keep your grades up.
Re: High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:12 pm
by Joeshan520
Go enjoy your youth! You're 17-18 years old, you should be pissing your parents off and getting ready to enjoy college. Go to whatever school you believe is the best fit, honestly, you'll thrive in an environment you enjoy being in. If you do take out debt, select an undergraduate course of study you find interesting and that has some earning potential by itself. Don't just take a blow-off major to get the best grades possible because you think you want to go to law school. Finally, if you really are interested in attending law school try to intern at a law office during a summer and see what it's really like. You may find it's incredibly boring and decide to do something else.
To be your age again...Get off of here and have fun! Enjoy graduation!
Re: High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:15 pm
by cinephile
Have a plan B.
Re: High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:00 pm
by Flacco4815
Thanks for the replies everyone! I am enjoying myself, just a little anal retentive, and know fully the importance of having a back up plan. All I hear from everyone is how amazing U Baltimore, and Maryland School of law are. If my grades or lsats aren't good enough for t14 with $ or HYS I don't intend to go to law school. I have a paying internship which I've had over the past two summers at a political consulting firm, and have made good connections with that so I'm confident I can get a job in that area, but I may add Econ as a double major or a minor with poli sci. Does anyone know what the deal is with Baltimore big law, like is it non-existent or extremely small?
Re: High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:55 pm
by Gunnar Stahl
howlery wrote:
I also don't see how a business major will lead to a job, since they don't really learn anything and there are so many of them.
Depends on which business major and which school.
Re: High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:57 pm
by EvilClinton
Flacco4815 wrote:Thanks for the replies everyone! I am enjoying myself, just a little anal retentive, and know fully the importance of having a back up plan. All I hear from everyone is how amazing U Baltimore, and Maryland School of law are. If my grades or lsats aren't good enough for t14 with $ or HYS I don't intend to go to law school. I have a paying internship which I've had over the past two summers at a political consulting firm, and have made good connections with that so I'm confident I can get a job in that area, but I may add Econ as a double major or a minor with poli sci. Does anyone know what the deal is with Baltimore big law, like is it non-existent or extremely small?
Your best bet is to try and get a summer internship with
this guy.
But the best money is made by being open to represent whoever controls the most corners. Watch out because things have been cut throat ever since them towers came down.
Re: High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:11 pm
by Incubateus
You realize that graduating law school is almost a decade away for you? The economy could tilt in many directions. Personally, if I could redo things, I would go to a better-known undergrad, major in engineering and computer science, go out and work for a few years at a cool ass company like google/apple/etc., and then go to law school. Engineering degrees open a huge range of job opportunities that just don't exist elsewhere. Even if you aren't interested in it, DO NOT underestimate the importance of your work/life balance. They can bring down your gpa, but I would rather go to a Tier 1 with an engineering degree than go to a t14 with a philosophy degree. Again, that's just me. The hivemind here says gpa and lsat and damn the rest. If you get a 172 and have a 3.4 gpa with an engineering degree, you'll still be able to go to a T14, or even a Tier 1 with a full ride. If you want to drain your days away at big law or go into DC politics, a T14 will be your best route. But if you want possibly anything else, keep your doors open and your debt low.
Re: High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:26 pm
by Dr. Dre
EvilClinton wrote:Get off TLS and go out and enjoy being young.
Re: High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:04 am
by TheMostDangerousLG
EvilClinton wrote:Get off TLS and go out and enjoy being young.
Re: High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:30 am
by Clearly
TheMostDangerousLG wrote:EvilClinton wrote:Get off TLS and go out and enjoy being young.
Re: High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:34 am
by rad lulz
,
Re: High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 4:58 am
by Balthy
Flacco4815 wrote:Thanks for the replies everyone! I am enjoying myself, just a little anal retentive, and know fully the importance of having a back up plan. All I hear from everyone is how amazing U Baltimore, and Maryland School of law are. If my grades or lsats aren't good enough for t14 with $ or HYS I don't intend to go to law school. I have a paying internship which I've had over the past two summers at a political consulting firm, and have made good connections with that so I'm confident I can get a job in that area, but I may add Econ as a double major or a minor with poli sci. Does anyone know what the deal is with Baltimore big law, like is it non-existent or extremely small?
People change a lot during college years, and you may reach the end of that road with totally different interests and, in a state of flux, you may just want to land a decent job to figure things out. You never know what will happen, so although you should keep networking, don't count on your connects' ability to get you that job. Like someone else mentioned up top, I recommend majoring in something like business. Double major if you want, but keep business or something else marketable in there (econ degrees from lower-ranked schools are worthless in terms of landing decent jobs). I wish someone had told me this before I got
my highly marketable philosophy degree.
Re: High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:26 am
by Dr. Dre
rad lulz wrote:Don't go to law skool
Re: High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:57 pm
by PRgradBYU
rad lulz wrote:Don't go to law skool
C'mon, nobody knows what the market is going to be like in 7-8+ years...
Re: High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:48 pm
by Gunnar Stahl
PRgradBYU wrote:rad lulz wrote:Don't go to law skool
C'mon, nobody knows what the market is going to be like in 7-8+ years...
well he also shouldn't put all his eggs in the law school basket.
Re: High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:05 pm
by Dr. Dre
Ghost93 wrote:PRgradBYU wrote:rad lulz wrote:Don't go to law skool
C'mon, nobody knows what the market is going to be like in 7-8+ years...
well he also shouldn't put all his eggs in the law school basket.
Re: High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:07 pm
by 09042014
1) Condoms are a myth spread by religious right to trick you into having lame sex
2) Law school is a terrible choice, don't plan on doing it.
Re: High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:23 pm
by Gunnar Stahl
Desert Fox wrote:
2) Law school is a terrible choice, don't plan on doing it.
I am glad I figured this out early on.
Re: High School student: Undergrad advice
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:44 pm
by 09042014
Especially for a high school kid. If you waste your college years getting a stupid major, even if you get a 4.0, you might flunk the LSAT hard. And then you really can't be a lawyer and you have a wasted degree.
And even if you get into a school worht going to, tuition will be like 80K by the time you'd start. And you'll have 350K in debt at graduation at the rate things are going. And the top end salaries will still probably only be 160K.