Top Law Schools

$20k per year at Pepperdine
Sticker at Fordham PT
EDIT: $7K per year at Fordham...no stips

Where do you want to live after law school? how much will it cost to attend each year? What are the stipulations to keep the scholarhsip? Those answers may help you decide.

Want to end up in NY or LA...no preference. Pepp's stip is top 50%.

If these are your options then don't go to law school.

BigZuck wrote:If these are your options then don't go to law school.

Unless you want to work in SoCal or in NY, retake.

EDIT: with a full-ride

but OP you don't have one so retake.

Dr. Dre wrote:

BigZuck wrote:If these are your options then don't go to law school.

Unless you want to work in SoCal or in NY, retake.

Nope. I actually had the correct answer. If these are your options then don't go, regardless of where you want to work.

BigZuck wrote:

Dr. Dre wrote:

BigZuck wrote:If these are your options then don't go to law school.

Unless you want to work in SoCal or in NY, retake.

Nope. I actually had the correct answer. If these are your options then don't go, regardless of where you want to work.

I said my response under the presumption of a full ride...

Full ride is different (potentially) but that is not what the OP presented to us.

BigZuck wrote:Full ride is different (potentially) but that is not what the OP presented to us.

Yes I know. I forgot to include "with a full ride" on my first response.

does Fordham even give full rides? they are cheap bastards.

Hey, I think you must consider a few things. First, NY and So Cal are very different, so you really must ask yourself where you would rather be...I know you said either, but when chosing I think you should visit both places -- it will cost a bit up front, but may be worth it if you are going to be there for three years and have that diploma for rest of your life. A visit is a good way to feel out the place and talk to students about thier employment plans etc.

Secondly, just factor in cost of living with debt. If you are good with that - ok. But you should be fully aware of the TOTAL debt. Now, Im sorry, but dont listen to the whole "dont go to law school" thing that floats around TLS. Pepperdine and Fordham have decent markets so long as you know that those markets or spheres of influence "hire wise" are where you want to be.

Thirdy, make sure you actaully want to BE lawyer and that law is not just the "next" thing. If you can deal with these points and be ok/be sure of your answers - then go for it. Pepp and Fordham are good schools for someone who understands future prospects.

matrim wrote:Hey, I think you must consider a few things. First, NY and So Cal are very different, so you really must ask yourself where you would rather be...I know you said either, but when chosing I think you should visit both places -- it will cost a bit up front, but may be worth it if you are going to be there for three years and have that diploma for rest of your life. A visit is a good way to feel out the place and talk to students about thier employment plans etc.

Secondly, just factor in cost of living with debt. If you are good with that - ok. But you should be fully aware of the TOTAL debt. Now, Im sorry, but dont listen to the whole "dont go to law school" thing that floats around TLS. Pepperdine and Fordham have decent markets so long as you know that those markets or spheres of influence "hire wise" are where you want to be.

Thirdy, make sure you actaully want to BE lawyer and that law is not just the "next" thing. If you can deal with these points and be ok/be sure of your answers - then go for it. Pepp and Fordham are good schools for someone who understands future prospects.

Nope

Agree with Matrim. Visit the schools. Would it be possible for Zuck to drop atleast 6-7 more nopes in here so he can get his stats up for TLS? Dre would you be able to piggyback off of Zuck a little more to confirm that you agree with him entirely?

Tier2Allstar wrote:Agree with Matrim. Visit the schools. Would it be possible for Zuck to drop atleast 6-7 more nopes in here so he can get his stats up for TLS? Dre would you be able to piggyback off of Zuck a little more to confirm that you agree with him entirely?

Bro I've got plenty of long posts. But there's nothing to say here. If these are the options then don't go to law school. Any other advice is potentially life ruinous.

I made this exact choice 2 years ago (except the Pepperdine scholarship was a full ride). Most people on this thread will probably think I'm an idiot. I'm completely satisfied with my choice to do Fordham PT.

The first consideration was where I wanted to live and work. I had lived in NYC for 5 years before law school, and I loved it. I knew that if I left NYC for law school I would try my hardest to get back to here when I was done. What I didn't really understand before law school, however, was that the vast majority of jobs after law school are regional, unless you're at the top schools. If I had that knowledge then, I wouldn't have even agonized over my decision - Fordham in a heartbeat. NYC from Pepperdine would have just been way too difficult (maybe a handful of kids, and only those at the top of the class, get to NYC each year).

The short of it is pick the one in the city where you want to work. Pepperdine places decently in SoCal. I personally wasn't ready to make that transition, so I picked Fordham.

The second consideration was the ultimate amount of debt considering future options. A full ride at Pepperdine (assuming I made top third) would net me 75-90k debt or thereabouts. Job opportunties from Pepperdine were decent, but I wasn't really sure whicih field I wanted, so if I had dreams of biglaw, I knew I needed to be way way way up in the class. No scholarship, but working to pay COL in NYC, at Fordham would net me loans around 125-150k. Fordham has MUCH better options for biglaw, so that fell within my debt tolerance. And if I don't get biglaw, then the debt, while high, can be chipped away in other fields or public interest. It'll just make life pretty sucky for 10 years. You'll have to make that decision for your own tolerance. (FWIW, I was going to drop out after first year if I didn't make a certain grade %, or what would be necessary to be competitive for biglaw jobs.)

The short of this is you have to consider the type of work you want to do in the long-run. If you have dreams of biglaw, lean toward Fordham. If you're ok in more mid-range or public interest work, you can be more flexible.

As for being the PT program, I love it. It started out with about 80 students, but half of them transferred into the day division after the first year. Those remaining in the evening program are great - a really diverse set of work experiences and future interests. There are young people like me who've worked for a few years out of college but are doing law school PT to minimize the debt. Then there are some others who have more substantial work experience in a variety of fields; they make class discussion more interesting, I think. We don't really have time to hang out a ton, as it's tough to work FT and do school, but with the right planning, it's manageable.

Feel free to PM if you have any more specific questions about this.

BigZuck wrote:

Tier2Allstar wrote:Agree with Matrim. Visit the schools. Would it be possible for Zuck to drop atleast 6-7 more nopes in here so he can get his stats up for TLS? Dre would you be able to piggyback off of Zuck a little more to confirm that you agree with him entirely?

Bro I've got plenty of long posts. But there's nothing to say here. If these are the options then don't go to law school. Any other advice is potentially life ruinous.

Zuck- Your TLS credentials are not in question here. What you got is an acceptance letter from Duke (this cylcle), nothing helpful, and way too much spare time. Genuinely, congrats on all of that. You will have a coin toss shot at big law and likely a job regardless. That is amazing. Great for you. Let everyone else choose their own path. If the question is Fordham or Pepperdine its not the forum to say retake or don't go. When someone is saying PT you are failing to consider they are in that program for a reason a.k.a. already have a job.
LA and NY are extraordinarily different markets.
I'm also assuming PT at Fordham is a 4 year program. That COL in NY would be killer unless you actually were working PT.
I have a liberal friend that went to Pepperdine and nearly every time they do something ultra conservative he has to essentially disown them. If you have some sort of predisposition toward that sort of thing you may also want to consider that.

Seriously PM LS-boundNYC sounds like you are in the same situation.

I got into Cornell too brobro.

But seriously, I have been by far the most helpful in this thread. I have tried to help him/her make a good choice. If these are the options then don't go to law school. If we are talking good scholarships and manageable debt loads and a realization that there is still a big chance that 3 or more years will be wasted on this venture then we have a different story. But the OP did not present us with that. When those are the two options the best choice of action is don't go.

Retake the LSAT and either go to a better school or get a better scholarship to these schools. Also make sure you go to a school in a region that you have ties to and want to work in (assuming you don't go to a tippy top school).

Tier2Allstar wrote:Agree with Matrim. Visit the schools. Would it be possible for Zuck to drop atleast 6-7 more nopes in here so he can get his stats up for TLS? Dre would you be able to piggyback off of Zuck a little more to confirm that you agree with him entirely?

Stop giving awful advice. OP should go to neither school. That's the end of the story.

I think Tier2Allstar has made the most important point - this thread was created for someone who is wanting to chose between Fordham and Pepperdine. Thats it. If you would like (anyone) could go create board thats titled "If you dont go to a top 14 - dont go to law school". In that you could write to you hearts content about the tragedy that occurs when people dont. That way people like the OP could go there, and if he still wants to ask a question about other schools, he could create this thread and rest easy knowing that he wont get 20 posts saying dont go!

Also, LS-boundNYC is probably the exact type of person the OP wants to hear from, he not only faced this decision but can explain his decision ....and state that he is very happy with it.

T14 Schools provide solid job prospects, and debt for other schools is a major concern (which is why I said the OP should get all the facts before deciding), but there are lots of successful lawyers who didnt go to a T14, and schools like Fordham and Pepp have a certain market they do well in.

Ultimatly, I think its healthy that discussions like this take place, so thanks for that. Sometimes it just appears a TLSer has a legit question and all he or she gets is ..DONT GO, many of those people will still go, but they may not get to make as informed of a decision as they might have if thier questions had been answered by people who have approached that type of question before and can speak to how they handled it/outcomes.

matrim wrote:schools like Fordham and Pepp have a certain market they do well in.

If by "do well" you mean "the most likely outcome is NOT having a long term, full time job as a lawyer" or "barely give you a greater than 50/50 shot at a long term, full time legal job" then sure, they "do well."

bk187 wrote:

matrim wrote:schools like Fordham and Pepp have a certain market they do well in.

If by "do well" you mean "the most likely outcome is NOT having a long term, full time job as a lawyer" or "barely give you a greater than 50/50 shot at a long term, full time legal job" then sure, they "do well."

PWNED. But in all seriousness, if you're looking at Pepperdine, the California legal market is tough to crack as it is... Stanford, Berk, UCLA and USC all place MUCH better in CA. Then you've got other regional schools adding to the CA over-saturation.

And FWIW, you'd be an absolute fool to pay sticker at Fordham.

bk187 wrote:

matrim wrote:schools like Fordham and Pepp have a certain market they do well in.

If by "do well" you mean "the most likely outcome is NOT having a long term, full time job as a lawyer" or "barely give you a greater than 50/50 shot at a long term, full time legal job" then sure, they "do well."

Did you even read my post? I think you are missing the point…..the OP wants to know about choosing between the two schools!! Im not here to argue employ stats for Fordham and Pepperdine, although I must admit I was a little surprised that your first link was to Loyola …not Pepperdine, but either way, my overall point still stands, the OP cares about the difference between two schools.

matrim wrote:Did you even read my post? I think you are missing the point…..the OP wants to know about choosing between the two schools!! Im not here to argue employ stats for Fordham and Pepperdine, although I must admit I was a little surprised that your first link was to Loyola …not Pepperdine, but either way, my overall point still stands, the OP cares about the difference between two schools.

So when someone asks you whether to kill themselves with a gun or with pills, you wouldn't tell them to not kill themselves?

The difference between these two schools is immaterial because they are both objectively terrible, especially at the price that OP has to pay for them. The only possible way that either of these choices would be even close to reasonable is if OP could realistically find and work a 60k+/year paying job while attending Fordham PT.

Oh and Pepperdine is just as awful as Loyola. My bad for confusing equally terrible SoCal schools.

matrim wrote:I think Tier2Allstar has made the most important point - this thread was created for someone who is wanting to chose between Fordham and Pepperdine. Thats it. If you would like (anyone) could go create board thats titled "If you dont go to a top 14 - dont go to law school". In that you could write to you hearts content about the tragedy that occurs when people dont. That way people like the OP could go there, and if he still wants to ask a question about other schools, he could create this thread and rest easy knowing that he wont get 20 posts saying dont go!

Also, LS-boundNYC is probably the exact type of person the OP wants to hear from, he not only faced this decision but can explain his decision ....and state that he is very happy with it.

T14 Schools provide solid job prospects, and debt for other schools is a major concern (which is why I said the OP should get all the facts before deciding), but there are lots of successful lawyers who didnt go to a T14, and schools like Fordham and Pepp have a certain market they do well in.

Ultimatly, I think its healthy that discussions like this take place, so thanks for that. Sometimes it just appears a TLSer has a legit question and all he or she gets is ..DONT GO, many of those people will still go, but they may not get to make as informed of a decision as they might have if thier questions had been answered by people who have approached that type of question before and can speak to how they handled it/outcomes.

Where did anyone, anywhere, in this thread say its T14 or bust?

I certainly did not say that. I didn't even say don't ever go to these schools. What I did say was between those two options, don't go to law school.

Why do people always make stuff up to try and combat all the "elitist" meanies around here?

My gf knows a very intelligent person who attends Pepperdine and is a 3l. He did very well in a recent clinic. He currently has nothing lined up, and no ties. It's bad news. Don't go.