Top Law Schools

Hey,
I started my undergraduate degree at a state school and had a 2.4 GPA before I decided to leave after 2.5 years. Now, I am at a private school finishing up my undergrad and will graduate with a 3.93 GPA. I have calculated my LSAC GPA with all my classes and I will have a 3.23. My degree is a BS in Accounting

I have NOT taken the LSAT yet but have been studying for 4-8 hrs a day and now I am score between 170 and 175 on timed practice exams.

My questions is, what kind of chances do I have at t-14 schools?

I am very interested in Georgetown, NYU, UPenn, and Columbia

get a score first. a lot of the T14 is gonna be hard to crack no matter what you get though with a 3.2.

Crowing wrote:get a score first. a lot of the T14 is gonna be hard to crack no matter what you get though with a 3.2.

Seriously study your ass of for the LSAT and retake if you can score higher. Then come back and apply as early as you can while making your apps as polished as possible.

Aawaldrop wrote:

Crowing wrote:get a score first. a lot of the T14 is gonna be hard to crack no matter what you get though with a 3.2.

Seriously study your ass of for the LSAT and retake if you can score higher. Then come back and apply as early as you can while making your apps as polished as possible.

I have NOT taken the official LSAT yet my practice exams are 170-175

Feigngrav3 wrote:

Aawaldrop wrote:

Crowing wrote:get a score first. a lot of the T14 is gonna be hard to crack no matter what you get though with a 3.2.

Seriously study your ass of for the LSAT and retake if you can score higher. Then come back and apply as early as you can while making your apps as polished as possible.

I have NOT taken the official LSAT yet my practice exams are 170-175

that's the point. nobody implied that you did.

Crowing wrote:

Feigngrav3 wrote:

Aawaldrop wrote:

Crowing wrote:get a score first. a lot of the T14 is gonna be hard to crack no matter what you get though with a 3.2.

Seriously study your ass of for the LSAT and retake if you can score higher. Then come back and apply as early as you can while making your apps as polished as possible.

I have NOT taken the official LSAT yet my practice exams are 170-175

that's the point. nobody implied that you did.

Yea, I meant that study -> LSAT -> If less than 170s then retake

Oh okay yea I am confident I can score even higher than 175 but you never know when you take the real thing. Also, I saw on "Law School Numbers" quite a few people get into Georgetown with a much lower GPA and an LSAT of 172+. Anyone know if these results are accurate

Feigngrav3 wrote:Oh okay yea I am confident I can score even higher than 175 but you never know when you take the real thing. Also, I saw on "Law School Numbers" quite a few people get into Georgetown with a much lower GPA and an LSAT of 172+. Anyone know if these results are accurate

Law school numbers is reliable (also probably the only 'real' information that we have). Conventional wisdom is score as high as you can and then worry about your chances. Yes there are chances to crack the t14 but the 3.2 will hinder the further you go up and money will not be as open.

also you can play around with mylsn.info to look at how people have done in previous cycles.

Another important question is are you a URM (African American, Mexian American or Native American)? This would greatly increase your chances.

Feigngrav3 wrote:Oh okay yea I am confident I can score even higher than 175 but you never know when you take the real thing. Also, I saw on "Law School Numbers" quite a few people get into Georgetown with a much lower GPA and an LSAT of 172+. Anyone know if these results are accurate

They're accurate....the formula for Georgetown appears to be 3.0+/170+--->admit....especially now that their median is down to 169. But you shouldn't go to Georgetown in this economy unless you are independently wealthy, have parents paying, or have a big scholarship....even in those situations you have to think about what you are missing out on during those three years, which may go to waste if you end up in the ranks of the 1/3 of Georgetown grads who don't get a job. If I were you, i'd go out and get some accounting work experience and see how you like it, save some $, etc, and then reevaluate in a few years to decide whether you still want law school or whether you'd rather become a partner in an accounting firm, making six figures with many less hours than law and more stability. Accounting was not offered as a major at my undergrad, but I often wish I studied that or engineering or something else that I could use in a practical way right out of college instead of spending an inordinate amount of time and money to get a graduate degree. Seriously....law is not going anywhere. Plus, work experience will help your application (it is a soft factor), help defray the cost of law school, and help you in your legal job search if you do decide to go to law schools (corporate firms like people with accounting experience, for example). Good luck!

Thanks for the replies.
I actually come from a wealthy family so money is not an issue and my father is a CPA who owns his own firm. I have over two years experience working at his accounting firm. Also, I have experience working at a software company and oil company which are both owned by my father. Of course I'm not going to put that my father owns the two companies but will have the respective CEO's as the references. I have always tested well and was smart but was very immature and unmotivated. That changed over the last two years so I do not expect to be outside of the top 5% of my class at law school

Aawaldrop wrote:

Feigngrav3 wrote:Oh okay yea I am confident I can score even higher than 175 but you never know when you take the real thing. Also, I saw on "Law School Numbers" quite a few people get into Georgetown with a much lower GPA and an LSAT of 172+. Anyone know if these results are accurate

Law school numbers is reliable (also probably the only 'real' information that we have). Conventional wisdom is score as high as you can and then worry about your chances. Yes there are chances to crack the t14 but the 3.2 will hinder the further you go up and money will not be as open.

also you can play around with mylsn.info to look at how people have done in previous cycles.

Another important question is are you a URM (African American, Mexian American or Native American)? This would greatly increase your chances.

Yea I'm the wrong kind of Indian haha

Feigngrav3 wrote:Thanks for the replies.
I actually come from a wealthy family so money is not an issue and my father is a CPA who owns his own firm. I have over two years experience working at his accounting firm. Also, I have experience working at a software company and oil company which are both owned by my father. Of course I'm not going to put that my father owns the two companies but will have the respective CEO's as the references. I have always tested well and was smart but was very immature and unmotivated. That changed over the last two years so I do not expect to be outside of the top 5% of my class at law school

Good luck with that

Feigngrav3 wrote:I do not expect to be outside of the top 5% of my class at law school

LOL

Feigngrav3 wrote:

Aawaldrop wrote:

Feigngrav3 wrote:Oh okay yea I am confident I can score even higher than 175 but you never know when you take the real thing. Also, I saw on "Law School Numbers" quite a few people get into Georgetown with a much lower GPA and an LSAT of 172+. Anyone know if these results are accurate

Law school numbers is reliable (also probably the only 'real' information that we have). Conventional wisdom is score as high as you can and then worry about your chances. Yes there are chances to crack the t14 but the 3.2 will hinder the further you go up and money will not be as open.

also you can play around with mylsn.info to look at how people have done in previous cycles.

Another important question is are you a URM (African American, Mexian American or Native American)? This would greatly increase your chances.

Yea I'm the wrong kind of Indian haha

I'll chime in here and regurgitate some more TLS wisdom.

- Is there any chance you could hang around your UG? Perhaps by picking up another major or two? 3.2 will be below anyone's 25, but if you get up to say 3.5/3.6, you will find yourself in a much better position. CCN's 25s are in that range.

- As another poster said, polish your apps and start building softs. If you are not straddling any of the numbers, like if you are .3 below their GPA25 and 2 above their LSAT75, the non-numbers portion of your app will play a significantly greater role.

- PT'ing 170-175 doesn't mean anything. Only the real thing counts. (The only 16X's I ever received during my last year of prep were on the real thing. Everything else was 170-180). Your score might not drop at all on test day. My point here is to stress that you should not plan to nail the LSAT in say June and get all of your apps in on 9/1. Make sure an LSAT slip-up won't put you back a year.

- Oh and no one besides Yale and probably Stanford and Berkeley (all of which you won't be competitive for anyway) care about multiple LSAT scores.

- Splitter cycles are more unpredictable but LSN can still very accurately gauge your chances.

- Lastly, and probably most importantly, if you think you will be in the top 5% of your class, you are overestimating your potential and underestimating ours. It is very difficult to predict how well you will do in law school. You can probably ensure median provided you work hard enough, but promising yourself that you'd even be top 20% would be foolish, particularly if you are attending the highest-ranked school you get into.

From one 0L to another, based on recent cycles I predict:

170+ for Georgetown.
171+ with ED should give you a decent shot at Penn. 173 without ED for an outside chance.
174+ and good softs should get you NYU and give you an outside chance at Columbia.


I think softs (work experience in particular) may make a non-trivial difference in your situation.
I don't think any LSAT score will get you better than a coin flip anywhere, and you probably won't see money anywhere (though it seems you won't need it).

Good luck!

CLS and Chicago are out with that gpa, period. NYU is a very, very slim chance even with a 180. OP should forget about CCN.

Really everything in the T14 is quite unlikely even with a 180 except GULC, NU, and ED UVA/Penn/Mich.

Crowing wrote:CLS and Chicago are out with that gpa, period. NYU is a very, very slim chance even with a 180. OP should forget about CCN.

Really everything in the T14 is quite unlikely even with a 180 except GULC, NU, and ED UVA/Penn/Mich.

With his WE if he can hit 171 he's in at NU no problem. If he can hit 175+ he has a serious shot at NYU.

http://myLSN.info/o3nnmi

mrizza wrote:

Crowing wrote:CLS and Chicago are out with that gpa, period. NYU is a very, very slim chance even with a 180. OP should forget about CCN.

Really everything in the T14 is quite unlikely even with a 180 except GULC, NU, and ED UVA/Penn/Mich.

With his WE if he can hit 171 he's in at NU no problem. If he can hit 175+ he has a serious shot at NYU.

http://myLSN.info/o3nnmi

Huh, I didn't realize NYU had such a soft floor. I guess it can't be ruled out then, provided he scores 175+, which is still a pretty big.

.

When i said that i dont expect to score outside of 5%. I wasnt trying to be an ass. i always going into class rank thinking someone has to be in the top 5% so why not me and i know very well that 5% is very unlikely and very very difficult but if you dont expect to do well you probably will not.

Feigngrav3 wrote:When i said that i dont expect to score outside of 5%. I wasnt trying to be an ass. i always going into class rank thinking someone has to be in the top 5% so why not me and i know very well that 5% is very unlikely and very very difficult but if you dont expect to do well you probably will not.

top 5% happens to the most unlikely stooges

What kind of softs would you consider strong?
i have 2 years experience at an accounting firm
experience doing accounting at an oil company and software company
I also have a summer internship for the coming summer at JP Morgan in NYC

Feigngrav3 wrote:What kind of softs would you consider strong?
i have 2 years experience at an accounting firm
experience doing accounting at an oil company and software company
I also have a summer internship for the coming summer at JP Morgan in NYC

those are average softs

strong softs include: olympic gold medal, rhodes scholar, cure for cancer, etc.

Feigngrav3 wrote:I do not expect to be outside of the top 5% of my class at law school

LOLOL. I'm dying right now.

buddytyler wrote:

Feigngrav3 wrote:I do not expect to be outside of the top 5% of my class at law school

LOLOL. I'm dying right now.

what he expects and what will occur are two different things.