Have I made a mistake? Forum

[Merylian]

Hi all. Starting to get a little paranoid, so here's the story.

My stats are 170, 3.56. I'm not after biglaw. Ideally, I would like to work and live in North Carolina, though I wouldn't mind California either. To that end, I applied to Duke, UVA, UNC, Wake Forest, UCLA, and several schools that made me question my own sanity once the fee-waiver induced bloodlust wore off.

However, I've had people asking me why I didn't apply to any other T14 schools. I have assumed the upper half of them would be a waste of time and reporting fee, and places like GULC, Michigan, and Cornell simply aren't in areas I want to be shackled to after graduation.

My question is, am I crazy not to apply to more T14 schools I have a chance at? Should I be trying to get acceptances just to use for WL/scholarship leverage? And if the answer is "yes, you idiot", is it too late now to chuck those applications out?

Thanks in advance for any advice. Until this part of my life came along, I never knew I had it in me to be so neurotic.

[TripTrip]

Hi all. Starting to get a little paranoid, so here's the story.

My stats are 170, 3.56. I'm not after biglaw. Ideally, I would like to work and live in North Carolina, though I wouldn't mind California either. To that end, I applied to Duke, UVA, UNC, Wake Forest, UCLA, and several schools that made me question my own sanity once the fee-waiver induced bloodlust wore off.

However, I've had people asking me why I didn't apply to any other T14 schools. I have assumed the upper half of them would be a waste of time and reporting fee, and places like GULC, Michigan, and Cornell simply aren't in areas I want to be shackled to after graduation.

My question is, am I crazy not to apply to more T14 schools I have a chance at? Should I be trying to get acceptances just to use for WL/scholarship leverage? And if the answer is "yes, you idiot", is it too late now to chuck those applications out?

Thanks in advance for any advice. Until this part of my life came along, I never knew I had it in me to be so neurotic.

Yes, you idiot. People who go to GULC don't all stay in DC, Cornell in NY, or Mich in Mich. The benefit of a T14 degree is that it is portable nationally. Also, check this out: http://myLSN.info/t3dlxx

And no, it's not too late until the deadline is passed. Get your apps out tonight. Even if you decided you don't want to go to any of those schools, you might stand a chance at some $$$ which you could use to negotiate. Even if you don't, wouldn't it be better to have all your options on the table?

[Merylian]

Yes, you idiot. People who go to GULC don't all stay in DC, Cornell in NY, or Mich in Mich. The benefit of a T14 degree is that it is portable nationally. Also, check this out: http://myLSN.info/t3dlxx

And no, it's not too late until the deadline is passed. Get your apps out tonight. Even if you decided you don't want to go to any of those schools, you might stand a chance at some $$$ which you could use to negotiate. Even if you don't, wouldn't it be better to have all your options on the table?

Ty for your response, good sir. I thought that even in the T14, schools were still more or less regional? I had heard that YHS were the only truly national schools. If this is wrong, I'm glad to hear it!

Thank you for confirming what I was starting to feel; I was torn between the "Don't go to school where you don't want to work" mantra and the idea that if you can go T14, you probably should. At any rate, looks like I still have some applications to do. That link you provided is particularly encouraging.

[Crowing]

They're considered regional in the sense that they can't get you anywhere without ties. But if you already have ties to NC, you shouldn't have a problem going to a T-14 and then coming back to practice in NC. Ofc I say this knowing nothing about NC specifically but that is the impression I get about my home state, MO.

[TripTrip]

They're considered regional in the sense that they can't get you anywhere without ties. But if you already have ties to NC, you shouldn't have a problem going to a T-14 and then coming back to practice in NC. Ofc I say this knowing nothing about NC specifically but that is the impression I get about my home state, MO.

Basically this. I think TLS overemphasizes ties, but the point remains that if you grew up in Minnesota and go to Georgetown, law firms in Colorado are going to wonder why you are applying. Something else should draw you to wherever you want to work.

If you want to go back to NC, that's easy. Go to a T14 and come back.

[wert3813]

They're considered regional in the sense that they can't get you anywhere without ties. But if you already have ties to NC, you shouldn't have a problem going to a T-14 and then coming back to practice in NC. Ofc I say this knowing nothing about NC specifically but that is the impression I get about my home state, MO.

Basically this. I think TLS overemphasizes ties, but the point remains that if you grew up in Minnesota and go to Georgetown, law firms in Colorado are going to wonder why you are applying. Something else should draw you to wherever you want to work.

If you want to go back to NC, that's easy. Go to a T14 and come back.

Also ughhh use Gtown, Cornell, etc. to negotiate scholarships with Duke, Wake, USC, UCLA, etc.

[Merylian]

Thanks for the advice everyone! I've decided to send in apps at Cornell, Georgetown, Northwestern, Michigan, and Penn as well. It might be a little late, but since I've got the waivers, I guess it'll be better to spend the $105 on LSAC fees and not wonder for the rest of my life if I could have done better.

Regarding ties - I'm not an NC native or resident. I lived there for a year (husband's military duty station), and have no connections to the legal community. I kind of assumed those were tenuous ties at best, and so I should probably try to go local if possible. Am I correct there, or would I still have a shot of making it back to North Carolina with a degree from somewhere like Cornell?

[A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A]

Regarding ties - I'm not an NC native or resident. I lived there for a year (husband's military duty station), and have no connections to the legal community. I kind of assumed those were tenuous ties at best, and so I should probably try to go local if possible. Am I correct there, or would I still have a shot of making it back to North Carolina with a degree from somewhere like Cornell?

I read this and I don't know what ties even mean now.

[Crowing]

Regarding ties - I'm not an NC native or resident. I lived there for a year (husband's military duty station), and have no connections to the legal community. I kind of assumed those were tenuous ties at best, and so I should probably try to go local if possible. Am I correct there, or would I still have a shot of making it back to North Carolina with a degree from somewhere like Cornell?

I think this is something that is largely dependent on the identity of the market; on TLS the general rule of thumb seems to be that smaller markets are more insular than larger ones.

Once again, I know nothing about NC, but my home market is St. Louis which is a city that is pretty legendary for its general cliqueyness and insular nature (not just for the legal field). St. Louis is insular to the point that firms here depending on who you talk to either make no distinction between the two local schools (SLU and WUSTL) or even give some preference to SLU despite WUSTL being much more highly ranked (perhaps because of the perception that WUSTL grads are less interested in/loyal to STL). During my alumni interview for Vandy, I asked my interviewer a lot of questions regarding the STL market (as she was somebody who left town to go to Vandy and then returned to get a biglaw job in STL). Her impression was that having gone to Vandy (which is better overall than any school in Missouri) was not really looked upon favorably by local firms. She made it sound like the fact that she went to HS in STL made a much bigger difference during her interviews.

But I think there's a general sentiment to target larger markets just because of the availability of employment. The thing is STL is such a minor market that there are very few legal openings here every year. Thus, while going to SLU might give you just as good a shot at getting a job in STL as going to a T-14, the bottom line remains that SLU gives you no options outside of STL and with how few jobs there are here you don't want to be left with STL as your only option. If you go to a T-14, even if you strike out in STL you can still use your degree to get you into say NYC as a backup.

But once again that's just what I know about my particular hometown. I have no idea how things operate in NC.

[uconjak]

Hi all. Starting to get a little paranoid, so here's the story.

My stats are 170, 3.56. I'm not after biglaw. Ideally, I would like to work and live in North Carolina, though I wouldn't mind California either. To that end, I applied to Duke, UVA, UNC, Wake Forest, UCLA, and several schools that made me question my own sanity once the fee-waiver induced bloodlust wore off.

However, I've had people asking me why I didn't apply to any other T14 schools. I have assumed the upper half of them would be a waste of time and reporting fee, and places like GULC, Michigan, and Cornell simply aren't in areas I want to be shackled to after graduation.

My question is, am I crazy not to apply to more T14 schools I have a chance at? Should I be trying to get acceptances just to use for WL/scholarship leverage? And if the answer is "yes, you idiot", is it too late now to chuck those applications out?

Thanks in advance for any advice. Until this part of my life came along, I never knew I had it in me to be so neurotic.

i understand completely....
I don't want big law but i don't want to go back to Iowa. I am at 168/3.9 approx. numbers. my first LSAT was a 164 I started to apply at the schools i knew i could get into (safety schools) I applied to BU, BC, Iowa, Fordham plus a few reach schools, U of Wash, UCLA, WUSTL. I decided to take the LSAT in Dec. hoping to improve. Before i got the scores from the dec. test, I got a fee waiver from USC. I applied to USC because of the LSE LLM program. My dec. test improve to a 168 and them I decided to take a shot at the T-14, I applied to GULC, Cornell, Northwestern, Virginia, Berkley. I then a got fee waiver to Michigan. I decided not to apply because i have over 19 schools i am currently watching and it was just to damm much. Also a hail mary to stanford, columbia, chicago and NYU.

Now what is a national school, well I would say all the T14 plus maybe ND, Vandy. The next bunch i would call super regional schools, Texas, UCLA, USC, WUSTL, GW, USC, and Emory plus maybe Fordham. THese schools are considered very good law schools for specific reasons like Employment or specific area of the law.the rest of the schools (approx. from T20 on Down) I consider regional schools. I would put IOWA and Minnesota on this list.

Now someone will disagree with me that's ok. I may have left out a school. minds can disagree but can do so honorably.

[Drake014]

Hi all. Starting to get a little paranoid, so here's the story.

My stats are 170, 3.56. I'm not after biglaw. Ideally, I would like to work and live in North Carolina, though I wouldn't mind California either. To that end, I applied to Duke, UVA, UNC, Wake Forest, UCLA, and several schools that made me question my own sanity once the fee-waiver induced bloodlust wore off.

However, I've had people asking me why I didn't apply to any other T14 schools. I have assumed the upper half of them would be a waste of time and reporting fee, and places like GULC, Michigan, and Cornell simply aren't in areas I want to be shackled to after graduation.

My question is, am I crazy not to apply to more T14 schools I have a chance at? Should I be trying to get acceptances just to use for WL/scholarship leverage? And if the answer is "yes, you idiot", is it too late now to chuck those applications out?

Thanks in advance for any advice. Until this part of my life came along, I never knew I had it in me to be so neurotic.

Why not try applying to Berkeley? Its not a ridic longshot to the point of not being worth the attempt.

[WanderingPondering]

Hi all. Starting to get a little paranoid, so here's the story.

My stats are 170, 3.56. I'm not after biglaw. Ideally, I would like to work and live in North Carolina, though I wouldn't mind California either. To that end, I applied to Duke, UVA, UNC, Wake Forest, UCLA, and several schools that made me question my own sanity once the fee-waiver induced bloodlust wore off.

However, I've had people asking me why I didn't apply to any other T14 schools. I have assumed the upper half of them would be a waste of time and reporting fee, and places like GULC, Michigan, and Cornell simply aren't in areas I want to be shackled to after graduation.

My question is, am I crazy not to apply to more T14 schools I have a chance at? Should I be trying to get acceptances just to use for WL/scholarship leverage? And if the answer is "yes, you idiot", is it too late now to chuck those applications out?

Thanks in advance for any advice. Until this part of my life came along, I never knew I had it in me to be so neurotic.

The next bunch i would call super regional schools, Texas, UCLA, USC, WUSTL, GW, USC, and Emory plus maybe Fordham. THese schools are considered very good law schools for specific reasons like Employment or specific area of the law.the rest of the schools (approx. from T20 on Down) I consider regional schools. I would put IOWA and Minnesota on this list.

Now someone will disagree with me that's ok. I may have left out a school. minds can disagree but can do so honorably.

Subtle BC/BU hate, huh?

[Merylian]

Why not try applying to Berkeley? Its not a ridic longshot to the point of not being worth the attempt.

I didn't go for Berkeley because I was under the impression they're really GPA-sensitive? I figured my LSAT was just a couple points shy of being able to reliably offset that damned 3.56.

At any rate, those of you who encouraged me not to be an idiot should be pleased to know I went ahead and sent in applications to Cornell, Northwestern, GULC, Michigan, and U Penn the night after creating this thread. I wish I had had this epiphany a little sooner, but somewhat late is better than never, I guess.

[Drake014]

Why not try applying to Berkeley? Its not a ridic longshot to the point of not being worth the attempt.

I didn't go for Berkeley because I was under the impression they're really GPA-sensitive? I figured my LSAT was just a couple points shy of being able to reliably offset that damned 3.56.

At any rate, those of you who encouraged me not to be an idiot should be pleased to know I went ahead and sent in applications to Cornell, Northwestern, GULC, Michigan, and U Penn the night after creating this thread. I wish I had had this epiphany a little sooner, but somewhat late is better than never, I guess.

I knew a couple of people who weren't URMs that made it into Berkeley with a high LSAT and low GPA. If you have a compelling story, its worth a shot.

[Ramius]

Why not try applying to Berkeley? Its not a ridic longshot to the point of not being worth the attempt.

I didn't go for Berkeley because I was under the impression they're really GPA-sensitive? I figured my LSAT was just a couple points shy of being able to reliably offset that damned 3.56.

At any rate, those of you who encouraged me not to be an idiot should be pleased to know I went ahead and sent in applications to Cornell, Northwestern, GULC, Michigan, and U Penn the night after creating this thread. I wish I had had this epiphany a little sooner, but somewhat late is better than never, I guess.

I knew a couple of people who weren't URMs that made it into Berkeley with a high LSAT and low GPA. If you have a compelling story, its worth a shot.

For the record, this is true. Lower LSAT and GPA than you, non-URM and I managed to weasel an acceptance out of them.

[uconjak]

Hi all. Starting to get a little paranoid, so here's the story.

My stats are 170, 3.56. I'm not after biglaw. Ideally, I would like to work and live in North Carolina, though I wouldn't mind California either. To that end, I applied to Duke, UVA, UNC, Wake Forest, UCLA, and several schools that made me question my own sanity once the fee-waiver induced bloodlust wore off.

However, I've had people asking me why I didn't apply to any other T14 schools. I have assumed the upper half of them would be a waste of time and reporting fee, and places like GULC, Michigan, and Cornell simply aren't in areas I want to be shackled to after graduation.

My question is, am I crazy not to apply to more T14 schools I have a chance at? Should I be trying to get acceptances just to use for WL/scholarship leverage? And if the answer is "yes, you idiot", is it too late now to chuck those applications out?

Thanks in advance for any advice. Until this part of my life came along, I never knew I had it in me to be so neurotic.

The next bunch i would call super regional schools, Texas, UCLA, USC, WUSTL, GW, USC, and Emory plus maybe Fordham. THese schools are considered very good law schools for specific reasons like Employment or specific area of the law.the rest of the schools (approx. from T20 on Down) I consider regional schools. I would put IOWA and Minnesota on this list.

Now someone will disagree with me that's ok. I may have left out a school. minds can disagree but can do so honorably.

Subtle BC/BU hate, huh?

No hate, I even applied to both schools....It is probably a ROI thing. Lots of law schools in the North east US. Both are good schools, but the cost vs. what i am getting at iowa...i would have a hard time saying thats a good deal. Now i havent been accepted at either school. so i don't know what my scholly will be. I will cross that bridge when i need to cross it. I also applied to USC they have a program i like, plus the people around my numbers are getting 120k so it covers about 55% of the cost of attendance. My goal is to get through law school for less than 100k in debt.