No offense, but that is incredibly doubtful. Regardless of what schools "feel" concerning your GPA, ultimately they would have to report a 3.0 to LSAC and USNews, and GPA differences weigh quite a bit more heavily in ranking than even the LSAT. I could imagine them maybe bumping certain schools like Swat, Chicago, etc. up .1/.2, but Harvard and the like are already known for an easier grading system, so why on earth would they get even more of a bump. Moreover, many lower schools (particularly state schools) are known for a harder grading system.danconstan wrote:Regarding the importance of your undegraduate institution...Several years ago I had the privalege of seeing a copy of a document used by a top professional school to weigh the GPA of its applicants for internal admissions purposes. It was a list of schools grouped into multiple tiers. The top tier (about 15 schools) had 0.6 added to the GPA. The bottom tier had 0.4 or 0.6 (don't remember exactly) subtracted from their GPA. Thus a 3.0 at Harvard (obviously in the top group) was regarded as a 3.6, whereas a 3.0 at "X" College in the bottom tier was regarded as a 2.4 or a 2.6. I remember being very surprised at how drastic the differences were!
schools' mean LSAT Forum
- dbt
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Re: schools' mean LSAT
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Re: schools' mean LSAT
No offense taken. I know it was real and I was pretty surprised. This was 8 years ago, and it was not a law school. I agree about Harvard's GPA, but it was in the top group nontheless. THe top group was all the Ivys except for one I think, Stanford and a few other non-ivy universities, and several of the top liberal arts colleges.
I would not translate this directly to law school applications today, but the point remains that undegrad school matters a lot in how law schools weigh GPAs.
I would not translate this directly to law school applications today, but the point remains that undegrad school matters a lot in how law schools weigh GPAs.
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Re: schools' mean LSAT
Regarding the importance of your work experience...Several years ago I had the privilege of seeing a copy of a document used by a top professional school to evaluate the strength of its applicants for internal admissions purposes. It was a chart of jobs grouped into multiple tiers. The top tier (about 15 jobs) had 20 points * years (up to 5 years). The bottom tier had 5 or 7 points (don't remember exactly) added to their index. Thus a 2.4 or 2.6 at McKinsey (obviously in the top group) was equivalent to a 3.6 at "X" McDonalds. I remember being very surprised at how drastic the differences were!danconstan wrote:No offense taken. I know it was real and I was pretty surprised. This was 8 years ago, and it was not a law school. I agree about Harvard's GPA, but it was in the top group nontheless. THe top group was all the Ivys except for one I think, Stanford and a few other non-ivy universities, and several of the top liberal arts colleges.
I would not translate this directly to law school applications today, but the point remains that undegrad school matters a lot in how law schools weigh GPAs.
I would not translate this directly to law school applications today, but the point remains that work experience matters a lot in how law schools weigh your application. And BTW, they don't really care about the LSAT at all.
- biggamejames
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Re: schools' mean LSAT
I really don't think this is true. I was a low-GPA splitter who came out of a totally unknown flyover-state UG. If what you say were true, I would never have gotten in the places I did.danconstan wrote:I would not translate this directly to law school applications today, but the point remains that undegrad school matters a lot in how law schools weigh GPAs.
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Re: schools' mean LSAT
What I said was that "undegrad school matters a lot in how law schools weigh GPAs", which is obviously only one factor of your application. Read more carefully...Hitachi wrote:Regarding the importance of your work experience...Several years ago I had the privilege of seeing a copy of a document used by a top professional school to evaluate the strength of its applicants for internal admissions purposes. It was a chart of jobs grouped into multiple tiers. The top tier (about 15 jobs) had 20 points * years (up to 5 years). The bottom tier had 5 or 7 points (don't remember exactly) added to their index. Thus a 2.4 or 2.6 at McKinsey (obviously in the top group) was equivalent to a 3.6 at "X" McDonalds. I remember being very surprised at how drastic the differences were!danconstan wrote:No offense taken. I know it was real and I was pretty surprised. This was 8 years ago, and it was not a law school. I agree about Harvard's GPA, but it was in the top group nontheless. THe top group was all the Ivys except for one I think, Stanford and a few other non-ivy universities, and several of the top liberal arts colleges.
I would not translate this directly to law school applications today, but the point remains that undegrad school matters a lot in how law schools weigh GPAs.
I would not translate this directly to law school applications today, but the point remains that work experience matters a lot in how law schools weigh your application. And BTW, they don't really care about the LSAT at all.
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Re: schools' mean LSAT
Yes, proving it by something you saw in med school admissions. I proved by the same logic that work experience is crucial in law school admissions (since I saw it in business school admissions). You must have been a whiz at LR.danconstan wrote:What I said was that "undegrad school matters a lot in how law schools weigh GPAs", which is obviously only one factor of your application. Read more carefully...Hitachi wrote:Regarding the importance of your work experience...Several years ago I had the privilege of seeing a copy of a document used by a top professional school to evaluate the strength of its applicants for internal admissions purposes. It was a chart of jobs grouped into multiple tiers. The top tier (about 15 jobs) had 20 points * years (up to 5 years). The bottom tier had 5 or 7 points (don't remember exactly) added to their index. Thus a 2.4 or 2.6 at McKinsey (obviously in the top group) was equivalent to a 3.6 at "X" McDonalds. I remember being very surprised at how drastic the differences were!danconstan wrote:No offense taken. I know it was real and I was pretty surprised. This was 8 years ago, and it was not a law school. I agree about Harvard's GPA, but it was in the top group nontheless. THe top group was all the Ivys except for one I think, Stanford and a few other non-ivy universities, and several of the top liberal arts colleges.
I would not translate this directly to law school applications today, but the point remains that undegrad school matters a lot in how law schools weigh GPAs.
I would not translate this directly to law school applications today, but the point remains that work experience matters a lot in how law schools weigh your application. And BTW, they don't really care about the LSAT at all.
- darkarmour
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Re: schools' mean LSAT
How come no one's noticed the sarcastic sentiment of Hitachi's post yet?
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Re: schools' mean LSAT
Using your specific situation to make a general conclusion, especially in the absence of any kind of details, is not very informative.biggamejames wrote:I really don't think this is true. I was a low-GPA splitter who came out of a totally unknown flyover-state UG. If what you say were true, I would never have gotten in the places I did.danconstan wrote:I would not translate this directly to law school applications today, but the point remains that undegrad school matters a lot in how law schools weigh GPAs.
- biggamejames
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Re: schools' mean LSAT
Go to the splitter thread and look at their (mostly similar) experiences.danconstan wrote:Using your specific situation to make a general conclusion, especially in the absence of any kind of details, is not very informative.biggamejames wrote:I really don't think this is true. I was a low-GPA splitter who came out of a totally unknown flyover-state UG. If what you say were true, I would never have gotten in the places I did.danconstan wrote:I would not translate this directly to law school applications today, but the point remains that undegrad school matters a lot in how law schools weigh GPAs.
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Re: schools' mean LSAT
Poor attempt at sarcasm since his example doesn't weaken my comparison. An applicant's GPA IS highly important for both law school and the type professional school I discussed so a comparison can be justifiably made. Work experience is not as important for law school so his attempt fails to show that I shouldn't be comparing between the two types of schools.darkarmour wrote:How come no one's noticed the sarcastic sentiment of Hitachi's post yet?
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Re: schools' mean LSAT
biggamejames wrote:Go to the splitter thread and look at their (mostly similar) experiences.danconstan wrote:Using your specific situation to make a general conclusion, especially in the absence of any kind of details, is not very informative.biggamejames wrote:I really don't think this is true. I was a low-GPA splitter who came out of a totally unknown flyover-state UG. If what you say were true, I would never have gotten in the places I did.danconstan wrote:I would not translate this directly to law school applications today, but the point remains that undegrad school matters a lot in how law schools weigh GPAs.
A high score on a standardized exam such as the LSAT that directly compares everyone can obviously make-up quite a bit for a GPA deficiency due to a low GPA or an undergrad intitution with a low academic reputation. I am not saying that the numbers indicated in my original post should be directly translated to current law school admissions. However, considering that law school and the type of professional school I discussed place similar emphasis on GPA and a standardized test and relatively little empahsis on other factors I think it is a useful comparison. I posted what I remember about that document thinking some may find it helpful for application purposes...use it as you will.
- coolio
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Re: schools' mean LSAT
i am pretty sure that the LSAT mean listed on the academic report is graduation year specific. i graduated a few years ago, and the mean for my school is different from the one listed at the beginning of this thread.
- flhealth
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Re: schools' mean LSAT
can anyone tell me where i might find the mean LSAT statistics for the University of Phoenix (diploma mill, not the law school)....a friend of mine is a loud mouth who brags that UoP is a stellar institution...i would LOVE to find out how their students do on the LSAT....is there a way to get this info?
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- bishopus
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Re: schools' mean LSAT
Sarah Lawrence 154.
I like to think it's low out of spite.
I like to think it's low out of spite.
- RVP11
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Re: schools' mean LSAT
UMUC (an online institution with a better rep than Phoenix) is something like 145. I'd estimate University of Phoenix is around 140.flhealth wrote:can anyone tell me where i might find the mean LSAT statistics for the University of Phoenix (diploma mill, not the law school)....a friend of mine is a loud mouth who brags that UoP is a stellar institution...i would LOVE to find out how their students do on the LSAT....is there a way to get this info?
- OperaSoprano
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Re: schools' mean LSAT
Does every school list an average number on the Academic Summary report? Mine just lists a breakdown by number of takers in each percentile range. Out of 103 recorded LSAT scores, my 164 was the second highest. (Ever?) One person scored above the 95th, and beat me.
I had a respectable GPA at that school (not on the list, since I have no data to add. But it would seem the median score was between the 25th and the 29th percentile.) FWIW, my school rocks for design, but is not exactly known for providing a rigorous liberal arts education. ...Am I screwed?
I had a respectable GPA at that school (not on the list, since I have no data to add. But it would seem the median score was between the 25th and the 29th percentile.) FWIW, my school rocks for design, but is not exactly known for providing a rigorous liberal arts education. ...Am I screwed?
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- OperaSoprano
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Re: schools' mean LSAT
If a GPA bump exists for applicants from schools that are assumed to be prestigious and non-inflationary, does that mean a corresponding ding exists for applicants from "bad" schools? Can they do that? Or do I need to find something new to worry about?
- express01
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Re: schools' mean LSAT
Amherst: 162
Williams: 164
Williams: 164
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Re: schools' mean LSAT
Does this mean SAT chart correlate to the school's LSAT mean ? It's pretty interesting
http://www.ordoludus.com/6.html
http://www.ordoludus.com/6.html
- pseudonymous1
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Re: schools' mean LSAT
express01 wrote:Amherst: 162
Williams: 164
Blatant Williams troll.
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Re: schools' mean LSAT
Mizzou (University of Missouri-Columbia)
154
154
- jaudette
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Re: schools' mean LSAT
That's quite the bump.jcswc6 wrote:Mizzou (University of Missouri-Columbia)
154
- Ranita
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Re: schools' mean LSAT
I suppose the more data the better.jaudette wrote:That's quite the bump.jcswc6 wrote:Mizzou (University of Missouri-Columbia)
154
So I checked out my school:
United States Military Academy (West Point) - 157
and this one was on my transcript review because of some high school classes:
SUNY Albany - 151
- chadwick218
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Re: schools' mean LSAT
revised
Last edited by chadwick218 on Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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