schools' mean LSAT Forum

[dbt]

Regarding the importance of your undegraduate institution...Several years ago I had the privalege of seeing a copy of a document used by a top professional school to weigh the GPA of its applicants for internal admissions purposes. It was a list of schools grouped into multiple tiers. The top tier (about 15 schools) had 0.6 added to the GPA. The bottom tier had 0.4 or 0.6 (don't remember exactly) subtracted from their GPA. Thus a 3.0 at Harvard (obviously in the top group) was regarded as a 3.6, whereas a 3.0 at "X" College in the bottom tier was regarded as a 2.4 or a 2.6. I remember being very surprised at how drastic the differences were!

No offense, but that is incredibly doubtful. Regardless of what schools "feel" concerning your GPA, ultimately they would have to report a 3.0 to LSAC and USNews, and GPA differences weigh quite a bit more heavily in ranking than even the LSAT. I could imagine them maybe bumping certain schools like Swat, Chicago, etc. up .1/.2, but Harvard and the like are already known for an easier grading system, so why on earth would they get even more of a bump. Moreover, many lower schools (particularly state schools) are known for a harder grading system.

[danconstan]

No offense taken. I know it was real and I was pretty surprised. This was 8 years ago, and it was not a law school. I agree about Harvard's GPA, but it was in the top group nontheless. THe top group was all the Ivys except for one I think, Stanford and a few other non-ivy universities, and several of the top liberal arts colleges.

I would not translate this directly to law school applications today, but the point remains that undegrad school matters a lot in how law schools weigh GPAs.

[Hitachi]

No offense taken. I know it was real and I was pretty surprised. This was 8 years ago, and it was not a law school. I agree about Harvard's GPA, but it was in the top group nontheless. THe top group was all the Ivys except for one I think, Stanford and a few other non-ivy universities, and several of the top liberal arts colleges.

I would not translate this directly to law school applications today, but the point remains that undegrad school matters a lot in how law schools weigh GPAs.

Regarding the importance of your work experience...Several years ago I had the privilege of seeing a copy of a document used by a top professional school to evaluate the strength of its applicants for internal admissions purposes. It was a chart of jobs grouped into multiple tiers. The top tier (about 15 jobs) had 20 points * years (up to 5 years). The bottom tier had 5 or 7 points (don't remember exactly) added to their index. Thus a 2.4 or 2.6 at McKinsey (obviously in the top group) was equivalent to a 3.6 at "X" McDonalds. I remember being very surprised at how drastic the differences were!

I would not translate this directly to law school applications today, but the point remains that work experience matters a lot in how law schools weigh your application. And BTW, they don't really care about the LSAT at all.

[biggamejames]

I would not translate this directly to law school applications today, but the point remains that undegrad school matters a lot in how law schools weigh GPAs.

I really don't think this is true. I was a low-GPA splitter who came out of a totally unknown flyover-state UG. If what you say were true, I would never have gotten in the places I did.

[danconstan]

No offense taken. I know it was real and I was pretty surprised. This was 8 years ago, and it was not a law school. I agree about Harvard's GPA, but it was in the top group nontheless. THe top group was all the Ivys except for one I think, Stanford and a few other non-ivy universities, and several of the top liberal arts colleges.

I would not translate this directly to law school applications today, but the point remains that undegrad school matters a lot in how law schools weigh GPAs.

Regarding the importance of your work experience...Several years ago I had the privilege of seeing a copy of a document used by a top professional school to evaluate the strength of its applicants for internal admissions purposes. It was a chart of jobs grouped into multiple tiers. The top tier (about 15 jobs) had 20 points * years (up to 5 years). The bottom tier had 5 or 7 points (don't remember exactly) added to their index. Thus a 2.4 or 2.6 at McKinsey (obviously in the top group) was equivalent to a 3.6 at "X" McDonalds. I remember being very surprised at how drastic the differences were!

I would not translate this directly to law school applications today, but the point remains that work experience matters a lot in how law schools weigh your application. And BTW, they don't really care about the LSAT at all.

What I said was that "undegrad school matters a lot in how law schools weigh GPAs", which is obviously only one factor of your application. Read more carefully...

[Hitachi]

No offense taken. I know it was real and I was pretty surprised. This was 8 years ago, and it was not a law school. I agree about Harvard's GPA, but it was in the top group nontheless. THe top group was all the Ivys except for one I think, Stanford and a few other non-ivy universities, and several of the top liberal arts colleges.

I would not translate this directly to law school applications today, but the point remains that undegrad school matters a lot in how law schools weigh GPAs.

Regarding the importance of your work experience...Several years ago I had the privilege of seeing a copy of a document used by a top professional school to evaluate the strength of its applicants for internal admissions purposes. It was a chart of jobs grouped into multiple tiers. The top tier (about 15 jobs) had 20 points * years (up to 5 years). The bottom tier had 5 or 7 points (don't remember exactly) added to their index. Thus a 2.4 or 2.6 at McKinsey (obviously in the top group) was equivalent to a 3.6 at "X" McDonalds. I remember being very surprised at how drastic the differences were!

I would not translate this directly to law school applications today, but the point remains that work experience matters a lot in how law schools weigh your application. And BTW, they don't really care about the LSAT at all.

What I said was that "undegrad school matters a lot in how law schools weigh GPAs", which is obviously only one factor of your application. Read more carefully...

Yes, proving it by something you saw in med school admissions. I proved by the same logic that work experience is crucial in law school admissions (since I saw it in business school admissions). You must have been a whiz at LR.

[darkarmour]

How come no one's noticed the sarcastic sentiment of Hitachi's post yet?

[danconstan]

I would not translate this directly to law school applications today, but the point remains that undegrad school matters a lot in how law schools weigh GPAs.

I really don't think this is true. I was a low-GPA splitter who came out of a totally unknown flyover-state UG. If what you say were true, I would never have gotten in the places I did.

Using your specific situation to make a general conclusion, especially in the absence of any kind of details, is not very informative.

[biggamejames]

I would not translate this directly to law school applications today, but the point remains that undegrad school matters a lot in how law schools weigh GPAs.

I really don't think this is true. I was a low-GPA splitter who came out of a totally unknown flyover-state UG. If what you say were true, I would never have gotten in the places I did.

Using your specific situation to make a general conclusion, especially in the absence of any kind of details, is not very informative.

Go to the splitter thread and look at their (mostly similar) experiences.

[danconstan]

How come no one's noticed the sarcastic sentiment of Hitachi's post yet?

Poor attempt at sarcasm since his example doesn't weaken my comparison. An applicant's GPA IS highly important for both law school and the type professional school I discussed so a comparison can be justifiably made. Work experience is not as important for law school so his attempt fails to show that I shouldn't be comparing between the two types of schools.

[danconstan]

I would not translate this directly to law school applications today, but the point remains that undegrad school matters a lot in how law schools weigh GPAs.

I really don't think this is true. I was a low-GPA splitter who came out of a totally unknown flyover-state UG. If what you say were true, I would never have gotten in the places I did.

Using your specific situation to make a general conclusion, especially in the absence of any kind of details, is not very informative.

Go to the splitter thread and look at their (mostly similar) experiences.

A high score on a standardized exam such as the LSAT that directly compares everyone can obviously make-up quite a bit for a GPA deficiency due to a low GPA or an undergrad intitution with a low academic reputation. I am not saying that the numbers indicated in my original post should be directly translated to current law school admissions. However, considering that law school and the type of professional school I discussed place similar emphasis on GPA and a standardized test and relatively little empahsis on other factors I think it is a useful comparison. I posted what I remember about that document thinking some may find it helpful for application purposes...use it as you will.

[coolio]

i am pretty sure that the LSAT mean listed on the academic report is graduation year specific. i graduated a few years ago, and the mean for my school is different from the one listed at the beginning of this thread.

[flhealth]

can anyone tell me where i might find the mean LSAT statistics for the University of Phoenix (diploma mill, not the law school)....a friend of mine is a loud mouth who brags that UoP is a stellar institution...i would LOVE to find out how their students do on the LSAT....is there a way to get this info?

[bishopus]

Sarah Lawrence 154.

I like to think it's low out of spite.

[RVP11]

can anyone tell me where i might find the mean LSAT statistics for the University of Phoenix (diploma mill, not the law school)....a friend of mine is a loud mouth who brags that UoP is a stellar institution...i would LOVE to find out how their students do on the LSAT....is there a way to get this info?

UMUC (an online institution with a better rep than Phoenix) is something like 145. I'd estimate University of Phoenix is around 140.

[RVP11]

Northern Arizona 151.

[OperaSoprano]

Does every school list an average number on the Academic Summary report? Mine just lists a breakdown by number of takers in each percentile range. Out of 103 recorded LSAT scores, my 164 was the second highest. (Ever?) One person scored above the 95th, and beat me.

I had a respectable GPA at that school (not on the list, since I have no data to add. But it would seem the median score was between the 25th and the 29th percentile.) FWIW, my school rocks for design, but is not exactly known for providing a rigorous liberal arts education. ...Am I screwed?

[OperaSoprano]

If a GPA bump exists for applicants from schools that are assumed to be prestigious and non-inflationary, does that mean a corresponding ding exists for applicants from "bad" schools? Can they do that? Or do I need to find something new to worry about?

[express01]

Amherst: 162
Williams: 164

[Larry Tate]

Does this mean SAT chart correlate to the school's LSAT mean ? It's pretty interesting

http://www.ordoludus.com/6.html

[pseudonymous1]

Amherst: 162
Williams: 164

Blatant Williams troll.

[jcswc6]

Mizzou (University of Missouri-Columbia)
154

[jaudette]

Mizzou (University of Missouri-Columbia)
154

That's quite the bump.

[Ranita]

Mizzou (University of Missouri-Columbia)
154

That's quite the bump.

I suppose the more data the better.

So I checked out my school:
United States Military Academy (West Point) - 157

and this one was on my transcript review because of some high school classes:
SUNY Albany - 151

[chadwick218]

revised