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my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:24 pm
by ppl123
my employer who is a lawyer asked me to write an initial draft of my letter.... does anyone have any advice about this? it's pretty awkward to have to "write myself up"....
Re: my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:31 pm
by NoodleyOne
Don't do it. It's illegal for one, but you're also going to be submitting a lot of writing to law schools, so you run the risk of it being obvious. Just don't.
Re: my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:35 pm
by dingbat
NoodleyOne wrote:Don't do it. It's illegal for one, but you're also going to be submitting a lot of writing to law schools, so you run the risk of it being obvious. Just don't.
How is it illegal?
Re: my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:42 pm
by NoodleyOne
dingbat wrote:NoodleyOne wrote:Don't do it. It's illegal for one, but you're also going to be submitting a lot of writing to law schools, so you run the risk of it being obvious. Just don't.
How is it illegal?
Talking out of my ass. It's at least unethical.
Re: my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:43 pm
by dingbat
NoodleyOne wrote:dingbat wrote:NoodleyOne wrote:Don't do it. It's illegal for one, but you're also going to be submitting a lot of writing to law schools, so you run the risk of it being obvious. Just don't.
How is it illegal?
Talking out of my ass. It's at least unethical.
Lawyers often ask their employees to write a first draft for them. How is it unethical here?
Presumably, the lawyer will not sign unless he agrees with it.
Re: my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:45 pm
by ppl123
i don't think it is unethical or illegal lol. it's for her to get extra info and for me to give her a basic outline of what i want covered. she is going to completely rewrite it.
anyways, does anyone have any advice about this? i know it is common for profs/employers to ask for this.
Re: my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:48 pm
by NoodleyOne
I believe most instructions for law schools mention that the applicant should not write their own letters pretty explicitly. Seems like a dumb risk to take. I know my recommenders each asked to see my PS, but as far as writing an actual letter, that seems like a bit much. Anyway, whatever.
Re: my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:54 pm
by ppl123
i appreciate your advice, but i wouldnt agree unless i knew it would be completely re-written... if it makes you feel any better, it's just a point form summary of what i want included.... so unless they want to submit that, it is going to be re-written lol
NoodleyOne wrote:I believe most instructions for law schools mention that the applicant should not write their own letters pretty explicitly. Seems like a dumb risk to take. I know my recommenders each asked to see my PS, but as far as writing an actual letter, that seems like a bit much. Anyway, whatever.
Re: my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:05 pm
by minnbills
I'd try and find a different person to recommend you. If they need you to write first, that's a sign they're either a) lazy or b) don't have much to say about you.
You want someone who can genuinely speak about you. Keep this person in your back pocket but I would find someone else.
I also agree that it is unethical to write your own letter of rec.
Re: my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:14 pm
by justonemoregame
Pretend you are them and write something you would like them to say. It's pretty simple.
Re: my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:16 pm
by dingbat
minnbills wrote:I'd try and find a different person to recommend you. If they need you to write first, that's a sign they're either a) lazy or b) don't have much to say about you.
You want someone who can genuinely speak about you. Keep this person in your back pocket but I would find someone else.
I also agree that it is unethical to write your own letter of rec.
or C they're too busy and want you to do some of the leg work
Re: my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:29 pm
by ns2675
Actually I think this is a fairly common and accepted practice (i.e., not wrong or unethical), in the working world at least. For instance, I just googled "asking for a letter of recommendation." The second result was
How to Ask for a Reference Letter, an article on the Harvard Business Review blog. The author specifically says to provide a template (even if the potential recommender doesn't ask for one):
Provide a Template
It's almost impossible to get a good reference letter from someone if you don't provide the tools necessary for them to actually write a good letter. It's also terribly inconsiderate not to give ample guidance. The last thing anyone wants to do is spend hours or days thinking about and drafting a letter which you yourself could have composed far better and more readily in about half the time.
Providing a template, therefore — an outline, bullet points, or even a fully-baked draft — of what you'd like the reference letter to say is the most effective (not to mention generous and thoughtful) approach to asking for a letter of reference. The goal isn't to put words into your former colleague's mouth or to co-opt her into vouching for you in an untrue or disingenuous manner; it's simply to do some of the work for her and provide all of the pertinent data points that you'd like included in the letter. Moreover, as boastful, bragging or full of yourself you may feel writing your own referral, often people will be even more generous than you will when talking about your skills and contribution to an organization. So go ahead and toot your own horn.
It sounds like this is where your employer is coming from. If I were you, I would write a note highlighting some of the aspects of my employment that I'd like my recommender to touch on in her/his letter.
Re: my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:30 pm
by Br3v
NoodleyOne wrote:Don't do it. It's illegal for one, but you're also going to be submitting a lot of writing to law schools, so you run the risk of it being obvious. Just don't.
Re: my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:34 pm
by justonemoregame
dingbat wrote:NoodleyOne wrote:Don't do it. It's illegal for one, but you're also going to be submitting a lot of writing to law schools, so you run the risk of it being obvious. Just don't.
How is it illegal?
Re: my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:44 pm
by JCFindley
dingbat wrote:minnbills wrote:I'd try and find a different person to recommend you. If they need you to write first, that's a sign they're either a) lazy or b) don't have much to say about you.
You want someone who can genuinely speak about you. Keep this person in your back pocket but I would find someone else.
I also agree that it is unethical to write your own letter of rec.
or C they're too busy and want you to do some of the leg work
justonemoregame wrote:dingbat wrote:NoodleyOne wrote:Don't do it. It's illegal for one, but you're also going to be submitting a lot of writing to law schools, so you run the risk of it being obvious. Just don't.
How is it illegal?
Virtually every performance report or promotion recommendation form I saw written in the Air Force was written by the by the person being evaluated then rewritten by the evaluator..... Same goes for letters of rec.
I would not say publicly to do it or not, but it happens...
Some say it is illegal. Pretty strong term, "illegal." Just curious, is it a felony or misdemeanor?
Re: my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:02 pm
by vzapana
I'd say it's extremely difficult to write in someone else's voice. Also, if I were an adcomm and realized the letter was co-written by the applicant, I'd certainly take the letter with a grain of salt. Depending on how strong the rest of the application is, that could be problematic.
Re: my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:07 pm
by justonemoregame
OP, you could outsource this project to a TLS-er. Have someone here write you a sub-initial draft, which you could then approve and submit as an initial draft to your employer.
Re: my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:33 pm
by wert3813
.
Re: my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:20 pm
by ppl123
thank you, everyone, for your advice... i will make sure to get it in done in a way that no one would find "unethical". that would be the last thing i would want when applying to law school.. lol
Re: my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:22 pm
by SaintsTheMetal
Best way to do this is to buy an intelligent friend a case of beer in exchange for him to write it for you. Then you can give it an edit, then send it to your recommender and he'll do his edit.
edit: definitely not unethical, lol at some of the sheltered kids on here
Re: my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:46 pm
by mmbt123
I don't think it's illegal. I read Susan Estrich's book, How to Get into Law School (she's a USC law prof) and she had specific advice for this scenario...namely, to think of it as a godsend and get in a draft in a timely manner. I cannot imagine that this scenario is uncommon, esp. for people getting recs from their bosses.
Re: my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:11 pm
by mr.hands
dingbat wrote:minnbills wrote:I'd try and find a different person to recommend you. If they need you to write first, that's a sign they're either a) lazy or b) don't have much to say about you.
You want someone who can genuinely speak about you. Keep this person in your back pocket but I would find someone else.
I also agree that it is unethical to write your own letter of rec.
or C they're too busy and want you to do some of the leg work
Uh no. Think of it this way, what would a law school say if you emailed them asking this question?
It's not illegal but it is unethical. Don't do it
Re: my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:31 pm
by lawprospie
Writing drafts of a recommendation in either bulleted or prose form is the standard in management consulting. It's not about laziness. Usually the recommender wants to see your points and view. After reading the draft, the recommender usually writes a recommendation from start. This is also common practice at my undergrad.
Re: my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:52 pm
by twenty
I would absolutely write an initial outline, but probably not a draft. Highlight the things you need the recommender to write about. Did you do well? Did you exhibit solid writing/speaking skills? Did you stay after class to help clean up?
As someone who reads comperable-to-LORs (I read performance reviews), it's very, very obvious to me when someone writes their own. If I had 2-3 LORs and a PS/DS, I could be hung over and still figure it out.
Re: my recommender asked me to write initial draft of my letter.
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:25 pm
by criminaltheory
SaintsTheMetal wrote:definitely not unethical, lol at some of the sheltered kids on here