Top Law Schools

Stanford and NYU are currently at the top of my reach list, and I am trying to decide which one to apply to ED. My numbers are extremely reachy for either (165 and 3.95 from a good-but-not-great lib arts college), but I believe the rest of my application is quite strong for reasons I won't bore you all with here. I'm applying to plenty of more numerically suitable targets/safeties, so I'd rather not be lectured on the general unlikelihood of my reaches if it's all the same to everyone.

That said, I'm wondering whether it makes more sense to use my binding ED for NYU, my number one favorite pick but for which I have next to nil chances of admission (being at the absolute lowest percentage of their score range), or for Stanford, my slightly less favored pick but for which I have a little better chance with the Black Box.

Stanford seems like the obvious choice prima facie since NYU is more likely to toss out my app based on the numbers alone, but at the same time I feel like ED might be the little nudge that gets NYU to consider the rest of my app. Plus, I might already have a marginally decent (by which I mean very, very low, but not non-existent) chance at Stanford without the ED anyway.

Thoughts?

Stanford does not offer binding early decision.

Also, Stanford is much, much harder to get into than NYU. If you think you will have a tough time at NYU you have no shot at Stanford. Don't be fooled by the 25th and 75th percentile ranges.

Well, that answers that. On your second point, though, in what way would you say Stanford is harder to get into than NYU? Based on higher ratio of applications:acceptances?

laotze wrote:Well, that answers that. On your second point, though, in what way would you say Stanford is harder to get into than NYU? Based on higher ratio of applications:acceptances?

non-numerical factors.

laotze wrote:Well, that answers that. On your second point, though, in what way would you say Stanford is harder to get into than NYU? Based on higher ratio of applications:acceptances?

NYU takes just about everybody above a certain numbers threshold. They have a huge class and aren't as sought after as Stanford, so they are forced to accept lots of people. NYU might be the most predictable school in the T-14, and perhaps anywhere.

http://nyu.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/1112/

Stanford, meanwhile, turns down tons of applicants with great numbers. Their class is less than half the size of NYU's, they aren't terribly concerned about their LSAT median (170, compared to 173 for peers Yale and Harvard) and they really look for people with interesting backgrounds. That said, they do still require strong numbers; only one applicant on LSN who was not an underrepresented minority got in last year with an LSAT below 170.

http://stanford.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/1112/

Look at all of the green on the NYU graph and all of the red, even among the most numerically qualified applicants, on the Stanford graph.

Thanks, that definitely gives a clearer picture of the odds.

I'd try NYU. Stanford doesnt have early decision but forgetting that, Stanford's class size of under 200 will be much harder to get into than NYU. To be honest you should do ED to Penn which is tied for 7 and youd probably have a better shot.... good luck

Anonymous4444 wrote:I'd try NYU. Stanford doesnt have early decision but forgetting that, Stanford's class size of under 200 will be much harder to get into than NYU. To be honest you should do ED to Penn which is tied for 7 and youd probably have a better shot.... good luck

Credited. I know people with worse numbers who got into Penn ED.

applepiecrust wrote:

Anonymous4444 wrote:I'd try NYU. Stanford doesnt have early decision but forgetting that, Stanford's class size of under 200 will be much harder to get into than NYU. To be honest you should do ED to Penn which is tied for 7 and youd probably have a better shot.... good luck

Credited. I know people with worse numbers who got into Penn ED.

How much worse? I will be EDing to Penn with the results of October and a 4.08 in structural engineering. Curious.

Mr. Frodo wrote:How much worse? I will be EDing to Penn with the results of October and a 4.08 in structural engineering. Curious.

Why are you EDing penn with that GPA? Are you not expecting that high of an LSAT?

abcde12345 wrote:

Mr. Frodo wrote:How much worse? I will be EDing to Penn with the results of October and a 4.08 in structural engineering. Curious.

Why are you EDing penn with that GPA? Are you not expecting that high of an LSAT?

Penn is essentially my dream school so I really just want to guarantee acceptance. I'm anticipating 165+ but regardless I'd like to apply this cycle and be at Penn next fall. Bad idea?

Penn ED's seem to work quite well according to LSN, and they're financial aid is generous (I have a sister there for UG).

Mr. Frodo wrote:Penn is essentially my dream school so I really just want to guarantee acceptance. I'm anticipating 165+ but regardless I'd like to apply this cycle and be at Penn next fall. Bad idea?

Penn ED's seem to work quite well according to LSN, and they're financial aid is generous (I have a sister there for UG).

Sounds reasonable. Good luck to you.
But I just have a question: Are you likely to get more money if you ED? Because if you wind up with a good LSAT, you have a good chance of getting a lot of money to a lot of places.
But if you really like penn I suppose what you're doing is the best practice.

Anonymous4444 wrote:I'd try NYU. Stanford doesnt have early decision but forgetting that, Stanford's class size of under 200 will be much harder to get into than NYU. To be honest you should do ED to Penn which is tied for 7 and youd probably have a better shot.... good luck

Thanks for the advice. I already feel (relatively) confident about Penn out of the box due to an encouraging conversation with the dean of admissions and my partner's current attendance there, but we'll see what happens.

laotze wrote:

Anonymous4444 wrote:I'd try NYU. Stanford doesnt have early decision but forgetting that, Stanford's class size of under 200 will be much harder to get into than NYU. To be honest you should do ED to Penn which is tied for 7 and youd probably have a better shot.... good luck

Thanks for the advice. I already feel (relatively) confident about Penn out of the box due to an encouraging conversation with the dean of admissions and my partner's current attendance there, but we'll see what happens.

IF you break 170, please do not ED. Otherwise, yeah, it's a pretty good idea.

Why aren't you retaking the LSAT? you have an amazing GPA, and if you can bump that score few more points you'll be a lock at NYU, probably with money. Hell, if you hit 170 you have a shot everywhere, including HYS (ok probably not Y). With apps down so much for the 3rd year in a row, this cycle will be a strange one. Imagine the possibilities....

WhiskeynCoke wrote:Why aren't you retaking the LSAT? you have an amazing GPA, and if you can bump that score few more points you'll be a lock at NYU, probably with money. Hell, if you hit 170 you have a shot everywhere, including HYS (ok probably not Y). With apps down so much for the 3rd year in a row, this cycle will be a strange one. Imagine the possibilities....

I did retake the LSAT, and I scored a point lower. I continually ace Reading Comprehension and Critical Reasoning, but Logic Games are the death of me. No amount of practice has gotten me to the point where I can complete even half of the LG correctly in the allotted time. I don't know what it is, but I have sucked at those particular kinds of puzzles since childhood despite having no problems with symbolic logic (classical, predicate, modal, etc.) in undergrad.

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Don't do binding ED. Scholarship money should considered before you accept anywhere.

Tiago Splitter wrote:Stanford does not offer binding early decision.

Also, Stanford is much, much harder to get into than NYU. If you think you will have a tough time at NYU you have no shot at Stanford. Don't be fooled by the 25th and 75th percentile ranges.

Can you elaborate? Am very interested in this, and am wondering if you know why that is / how it is.

Because Stanford is arguably the best in the country to many applicants. Personally, I'd have taken it over Y or H. I know Yale has the prestige of being an undisputed 1, but nobody will doubt your credentials coming from 2/3. And just look at the grounds. The minor employment bump from Yale isn't worth the quality of life trade off to many. The gap between Stanford and Nyu is much bigger employment wise. Nyu is a top school but there's still pressure to be top 3rd. Stanford wouldn't have that even ITE.

Eva_Bates wrote:

Tiago Splitter wrote:Stanford does not offer binding early decision.

Also, Stanford is much, much harder to get into than NYU. If you think you will have a tough time at NYU you have no shot at Stanford. Don't be fooled by the 25th and 75th percentile ranges.

Can you elaborate? Am very interested in this, and am wondering if you know why that is / how it is.

Stanford has extremely rigorous factors besides gpa and LSAT for admission. It seems that barring extraordinary numbers (at which point you're a lock for NYU, you have to have done something rather incredible to have a shot.