Top Law Schools

Outside the T-14, what are the better T1-T2 regional schools that place decently well? I'm trying to compile a list of schools that have decent regional placement, assuming a hefty scholarship is in play and barring a preference of work location.

TYIA

It seems like the general TLS consensus is that most schools ranked 15-50ish are decent regional schools, if you can break the top 20% of your class. Some would even argue that every school except HYS is primarily regional.

Do you really have no preference for where you want to work? Although schools like Iowa and Florida might both be decent regional schools (for those who graduate at the top of their class), you really can't compare schools in radically different markets like these.

jump_man wrote:It seems like the general TLS consensus is that most schools ranked 15-50ish are decent regional schools, if you can break the top 20% of your class. Some would even argue that every school except HYS is primarily regional.

Do you really have no preference for where you want to work? Although schools like Iowa and Florida might both be decent regional schools (for those who graduate at the top of their class), you really can't compare schools in radically different markets like these.

+1

jump_man wrote:It seems like the general TLS consensus is that most schools ranked 15-50ish are decent regional schools, if you can break the top 20% of your class. Some would even argue that every school except HYS is primarily regional.

Do you really have no preference for where you want to work? Although schools like Iowa and Florida might both be decent regional schools (for those who graduate at the top of their class), you really can't compare schools in radically different markets like these.

No particular place I want to work. I'm from the South eastern area, and I've pretty much lived in each region of the United States. I was just wondering what handful of schools outside of the T-14 are still decent choices with minimal tuition.

Columbia and NYU are solid regional schools.
Any law school in NJ is not

How do you define decent regional placement?

After T14, there is the T18. After that, almost all other schools (including those with decent big law percentages) do not perform that well from the standpoint of a median student. By not well, I don't just mean not big law -> I mean fighting for a firm with 2-10 attorneys or temp work not well.

Aberzombie1892 wrote:How do you define decent regional placement?

After T14, there is the T18. After that, almost all other schools (including those with decent big law percentages) do not perform that well from the standpoint of a median student. By not well, I don't just mean not big law -> I mean fighting for a firm with 2-10 attorneys or temp work not well.

that's not entirely true. There are plenty of schools where the median student should have no problem finding a solid legal job (even if not biglaw).
On the other hand, there are just as many schools where no one outside of the top 1/4 has a realistic chance

Yeah, market influence is also a big deal. I'd go so far as to say a GWU student is going to have an easier time finding long-term work in DC than a USC student in Los Angeles, and definitely better than a Hastings student in SF.

dingbat wrote:

Aberzombie1892 wrote:How do you define decent regional placement?

After T14, there is the T18. After that, almost all other schools (including those with decent big law percentages) do not perform that well from the standpoint of a median student. By not well, I don't just mean not big law -> I mean fighting for a firm with 2-10 attorneys or temp work not well.

that's not entirely true. There are plenty of schools where the median student should have no problem finding a solid legal job (even if not biglaw).
On the other hand, there are just as many schools where no one outside of the top 1/4 has a realistic chance

They may be able to find a legal job, but I think that a "solid" one is somewhat of an overstatement. Almost all schools outside of the T18 place between 33-66% of their classes into full time, long term legal jobs (desirable or not), and, if we assume that legal jobs (desirable or not) are skewed towards students that receive high grades, a student in the absolute middle is not particularly competitive for desirable (re: solid) legal jobs. My point here is not that they don't get legal jobs; it's just that the legal jobs that they are competitive for are undesirable (small firms/temp work/similar jobs).

BYU seems to do well

twentypercentmore wrote:Yeah, market influence is also a big deal. I'd go so far as to say a GWU student is going to have an easier time finding long-term work in DC than a USC student in Los Angeles, and definitely better than a Hastings student in SF.

Would you elaborate please?

I don't think you should go to a regional school without strong ties in the region. People get burned that way. Aside from that, go look at Law School Transparency.

Aberzombie1892 wrote:

dingbat wrote:

Aberzombie1892 wrote:How do you define decent regional placement?

After T14, there is the T18. After that, almost all other schools (including those with decent big law percentages) do not perform that well from the standpoint of a median student. By not well, I don't just mean not big law -> I mean fighting for a firm with 2-10 attorneys or temp work not well.

that's not entirely true. There are plenty of schools where the median student should have no problem finding a solid legal job (even if not biglaw).
On the other hand, there are just as many schools where no one outside of the top 1/4 has a realistic chance

They may be able to find a legal job, but I think that a "solid" one is somewhat of an overstatement. Almost all schools outside of the T18 place between 33-66% of their classes into full time, long term legal jobs (desirable or not), and, if we assume that legal jobs (desirable or not) are skewed towards students that receive high grades, a student in the absolute middle is not particularly competitive for desirable (re: solid) legal jobs. My point here is not that they don't get legal jobs; it's just that the legal jobs that they are competitive for are undesirable (small firms/temp work/similar jobs).

again, you're overgeneralizing. There's a big difference between a school that places 66% in full time long term legal jobs and schools that place only 33% in long term legal jobs. WUSTL is not exactly Cooley, you know
There are plenty of schools where the median student should be able to get a "solid" legal job, meaning midlaw, DA, etc.

Maybe I am. But I will say that someone may be over optimistic if they believe that a median WashUer is particularly competitive for mid law barring connections or ties to an obscure secondary market. Once again for the record, I'm not saying that they cannot get small law or temp legal work -> I'm simply saying that they will have extreme difficulty finding a mid law or equivalently desirable position.

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Maybe I am. But I will say that someone may be over optimistic if they believe that a median WashUer is particularly competitive for mid law barring connections or ties to an obscure secondary market. Once again for the record, I'm not saying that they cannot get small law or temp legal work -> I'm simply saying that they will have extreme difficulty finding a mid law or equivalently desirable position.

While I picked WUSTL as an example, I'm not familiar with it.
I do know that BU/BC/GW students at median should be able to find a real job - but the bottom third would have a tough time

IAFG is correct. You need more information about hiring than you will easily be able to get. You need to know what ties people have to the local market. I think it might be best to assume anyone who has a good regional job had ties plus good grades, unless they have a strong connection or a family member who will hire them, then the grades might not be as important as just getting the degree.

dingbat wrote:

Aberzombie1892 wrote:

dingbat wrote:

Aberzombie1892 wrote:How do you define decent regional placement?

After T14, there is the T18. After that, almost all other schools (including those with decent big law percentages) do not perform that well from the standpoint of a median student. By not well, I don't just mean not big law -> I mean fighting for a firm with 2-10 attorneys or temp work not well.

that's not entirely true. There are plenty of schools where the median student should have no problem finding a solid legal job (even if not biglaw).
On the other hand, there are just as many schools where no one outside of the top 1/4 has a realistic chance

They may be able to find a legal job, but I think that a "solid" one is somewhat of an overstatement. Almost all schools outside of the T18 place between 33-66% of their classes into full time, long term legal jobs (desirable or not), and, if we assume that legal jobs (desirable or not) are skewed towards students that receive high grades, a student in the absolute middle is not particularly competitive for desirable (re: solid) legal jobs. My point here is not that they don't get legal jobs; it's just that the legal jobs that they are competitive for are undesirable (small firms/temp work/similar jobs).

again, you're overgeneralizing. There's a big difference between a school that places 66% in full time long term legal jobs and schools that place only 33% in long term legal jobs. WUSTL is not exactly Cooley, you know
There are plenty of schools where the median student should be able to get a "solid" legal job, meaning midlaw, DA, etc.

Cooley isn't placing 33% of its students in jobs. WUSTL, BC, BU or GWU aren't placing 66% of their students in long term jobs.

I haven't looked at these numbers for a while, so if I'm wrong please let me know.

cahwc12 wrote:

twentypercentmore wrote:Yeah, market influence is also a big deal. I'd go so far as to say a GWU student is going to have an easier time finding long-term work in DC than a USC student in Los Angeles, and definitely better than a Hastings student in SF.

Would you elaborate please?

Sure. California is in a really terrible place right now as far as legal hiring goes. Look at the LST page for UCLA/USC/Hastings, and then go look at the page for GWU. Hastings is actually in an even worse situation, because they compete against Berkeley/Stanford kids, whereas at least UCLA has Irell and so forth at least somewhat all to themselves.

No one will find work. I am already looking through state welfare systems seeing which ones have the best and easiest benefits.

In general the public Southeastern schools (UGA, Bama, UNC, USC, Ole Miss) are all respectable in their region. Quite frankly, to a point where, if that's where you trying to work, they really aren't all that different from the non HYS top 14. I think the same idea, but to a lesser extent, applies to UT for Texas.

BruceWayne wrote:In general the public Southeastern schools (UGA, Bama, UNC, USC, Ole Miss) are all respectable in their region. Quite frankly, to a point where, if that's where you trying to work, they really aren't all that different from the non HYS top 14. I think the same idea, but to a lesser extent, applies to UT for Texas.

I've lived in Alabama for 10 years (undergrad and HS at Auburn), so Bama would be a solid choice for me if I'm content with working in Bham or another city in Alabama? I'm Korean American, not sure how that's going to play with hiring =/

togepi wrote:so Bama would be a solid choice for me

Absolutely. A 70% shot of finding legal employment post-grad is fairly good these days.

The difference between Alabama and, say, Northwestern, is that you have less than a 10% chance of getting biglaw out of UoA, whereas you have about half a chance of getting biglaw out of Northwestern.

twentypercentmore wrote:

togepi wrote:so Bama would be a solid choice for me

Absolutely. A 70% shot of finding legal employment post-grad is fairly good these days.

The difference between Alabama and, say, Northwestern, is that you have less than a 10% chance of getting biglaw out of UoA, whereas you have about half a chance of getting biglaw out of Northwestern.

With the crucial caveat that the person in question is from Alabama and wants to stay. Where a lot of people get into a lot of trouble is trying to go from Arizona>Alabama law>try to get a job in Arizona or from Minnesota>Bama law>try to get a job in Florida

dingbat wrote:Columbia and NYU are solid regional schools.
Any law school in NJ is not

Actually, RU-N and RU-C feed exceedingly well into state clerkship positions (and from there DA offices, local/state government, etc.). I agree, the Rutgers' are bad choices if you want to work a high-profile firm job, but as far as non-preftigiouf government/PI work goes, it's actually pretty decent.

andythefir wrote:With the crucial caveat that the person in question is from Alabama and wants to stay. Where a lot of people get into a lot of trouble is trying to go from Arizona>Alabama law>try to get a job in Arizona or from Minnesota>Bama law>try to get a job in Florida

I always hear this about regional schools, but I think if you go to a regional school and want to stay, then where you came from can be overcome with minimal work. For ex., I left NY/DC for Wake and wanted to stay in NC. During my first year interviews I was always asked why NC? However, after spliting my summer in NC I have not had another interviewer question whether or not I want to stay in NC. In my opinion, the key is to work in the school's region during your first summer. This should demonstrate your commitment to staying there.