Top Law Schools

Multiple Retake - Cancel/164/171
GPA 3.62
1 year WE

LSP puts me at 50%

All applicants on LSN who have 170+/3.4+ and who EDed this cycle: http://penn.lawschoolnumbers.com/applic ... =3&type=jd

EDing to Penn would put you in the virtually autoadmit terrority.

However, if you are asking whether you should ED, the answer would depend on how debt averse you are. Penn has shown to have pretty impressive biglaw placement, even ITE.

Does EDing ruin all chances of scholly money?

bobbyflayed wrote:Does EDing ruin all chances of scholly money?

Yeah. Some schools claim to still give schollys to EDers, but there is really no incentive for these schools to give scholly money. Only school I've ever heard of giving EDers scholly money is Michigan. Penn still gives need-based aid to EDers (although need-based tends not to be very substantial).

Yeah. You don't really have a shot at any of the CCN. You might however get some $ at a lower T14 but your GPA isn't really high enough for a significant amount.

ajaxconstructions wrote:Yeah. You don't really have a shot at any of the CCN. You might however get some $ at a lower T14 but your GPA isn't really high enough for a significant amount.

is it possible to get scholly money from Penn in RD?

Would EDing make any one of CCN viable?

ED Penn is probably the best scenario for you. You won't really get significant money from any school that Penn isn't a hell of a lot better than and you probably won't get into a T6

JamMasterJ wrote:ED Penn is probably the best scenario for you. You won't really get significant money from any school that Penn isn't a hell of a lot better than and you probably won't get into a T6

1.) If my goal is biglaw, would Cornell w/ $$ be better than Penn?

2.) Also, how much money could I get with Cornell?

bobbyflayed wrote:

JamMasterJ wrote:ED Penn is probably the best scenario for you. You won't really get significant money from any school that Penn isn't a hell of a lot better than and you probably won't get into a T6

1.) If my goal is biglaw, would Cornell w/ $$ be better than Penn?

2.) Also, how much money could I get with Cornell?

Cornell's notoriously stingy from what I've heard.

bobbyflayed wrote:

JamMasterJ wrote:ED Penn is probably the best scenario for you. You won't really get significant money from any school that Penn isn't a hell of a lot better than and you probably won't get into a T6

1.) If my goal is biglaw, would Cornell w/ $$ be better than Penn?

2.) Also, how much money could I get with Cornell?

Some people with around your numbers were getting $$, and it was all over the place: http://cornell.lawschoolnumbers.com/app ... ,8&type=jd


Have you checked out Law School Transparency? They give very detailed stats on placement for 2010 and 2011. For Biglaw, Cornell's looks a little better than Penn's for 2010, and Penn looks a lot better than Cornell for 2011. Keep in mind:

1) Cornell has a tiny class size, and more variation might be expected,

2) c/o 2010 reflects the damage done by no-offers (summer associates who were not offered a permanent job), while c/o 2011 reflects the damage done by law firms who just did not want to hire people that year. Cornell looks stellar in 2010, but that may just be the result of a bunch of Cornell grads getting lucky that year and landing at firms which didn't no-offer them after their summer ended. For whatever reason when law firms had to make massive cuts in hiring Cornell suffered deeply while Penn suffered less.

3) OCI has gone better at the T-14 since then. Assuming something disastrous like c/o 2011 doesn't happen again, I don't think you should expect going to Penn will give you as much of an advantage as c/o 2011's stats indicate.

KevinP wrote:

bobbyflayed wrote:Does EDing ruin all chances of scholly money?

Yeah. Some schools claim to still give schollys to EDers, but there is really no incentive for these schools to give scholly money. Only school I've ever heard of giving EDers scholly money is Michigan. Penn still gives need-based aid to EDers (although need-based tends not to be very substantial).

What if your FAFSA EFC is 0? My sister is currently at Penn for undergrad and pays like 2k/year due to need based aid. After EDing to Penn, could I not count on such financial aid? Since they say they cover 100% of need, I would think I'd still be good if I applied ED.

dbw29 wrote:

KevinP wrote:

bobbyflayed wrote:Does EDing ruin all chances of scholly money?

Yeah. Some schools claim to still give schollys to EDers, but there is really no incentive for these schools to give scholly money. Only school I've ever heard of giving EDers scholly money is Michigan. Penn still gives need-based aid to EDers (although need-based tends not to be very substantial).

What if your FAFSA EFC is 0? My sister is currently at Penn for undergrad and pays like 2k/year due to need based aid. After EDing to Penn, could I not count on such financial aid? Since they say they cover 100% of need, I would think I'd still be good if I applied ED.

No need based aid for law school.

My stats were cancel/164/170, and 3.64. I applied RD and got a little less than a year's worth of tuition from Penn in scholarship money. Granted, that was back in '10, but I don't imagine things have changed that much. Still, if you really want to go to Penn, ED. I know people who did and got pretty substantial need-based packages.

Check whether or not Northwestern is continuing the practice of awarding full tuition scholships to all ED admits.

Georgetown & H,Y & S all award need based financial aid.

Whether or not Penn is worth an ED application depends upon, as posted above by another, your tolerance for debt. Do you have a target or preferred market in which you would like to live & work after law school ? If so, then the strongest regional law school might offer a hefty scholarship.

I got into Penn RD with your numbers (and negotiated a few $ out of them as well.) If Penn is your first choice, by all means ED there, but I think you'd be fine if you RD'ed.

dbw29 wrote:

KevinP wrote:

bobbyflayed wrote:Does EDing ruin all chances of scholly money?

Yeah. Some schools claim to still give schollys to EDers, but there is really no incentive for these schools to give scholly money. Only school I've ever heard of giving EDers scholly money is Michigan. Penn still gives need-based aid to EDers (although need-based tends not to be very substantial).

What if your FAFSA EFC is 0? My sister is currently at Penn for undergrad and pays like 2k/year due to need based aid. After EDing to Penn, could I not count on such financial aid? Since they say they cover 100% of need, I would think I'd still be good if I applied ED.

Depends on how much your parents make. If they make anywhere near middle class, you won't get need-based aid. By adopting a policy of looking at parents' incomes, schools can allocate the tiny bit of need-based money they have towards students that typically come from lower SES backgrounds. Even if you are truly poor, don't expect a lot (maybe 20-40k over the course of three years?) because schools don't have a lot of need-based money. The expectation is that you can take out loan money to cover the CoA+Tuition.

ajaxconstructions wrote: No need based aid for law school.

There is need-based aid, but it's very small, and it's reserved for the truly poor. Almost all law students at elite schools come from relatively well-off SES backgrounds (when parents' income is taken into account), and that's why you rarely hear about need-based aid on TLS. In terms of the most generous, GULC + HYS offer substantial need-aid. Other law schools offer much less (I know of a few people who got 20-40k from a few other T14s in need money, but they were legit poor--single parent household with no income).

If I ED to Penn and get in, will I still be alotted loans?

bobbyflayed wrote:If I ED to Penn and get in, will I still be alotted loans?

yes

JamMasterJ wrote:

bobbyflayed wrote:If I ED to Penn and get in, will I still be alotted loans?

yes

thanks.

I'd spend your ED on NYU or Chicago depending on where you want to be (assuming it isn't Philly). Might as well use it on a school that is an actual reach and might make a difference for.

ajaxconstructions wrote:

dbw29 wrote:

KevinP wrote:

bobbyflayed wrote:Does EDing ruin all chances of scholly money?

Yeah. Some schools claim to still give schollys to EDers, but there is really no incentive for these schools to give scholly money. Only school I've ever heard of giving EDers scholly money is Michigan. Penn still gives need-based aid to EDers (although need-based tends not to be very substantial).

What if your FAFSA EFC is 0? My sister is currently at Penn for undergrad and pays like 2k/year due to need based aid. After EDing to Penn, could I not count on such financial aid? Since they say they cover 100% of need, I would think I'd still be good if I applied ED.

No need based aid for law school.

This is patently false. You really shouldn't give such advice if you don't know. Penn and Berkeley both give need-based aid up to 20k/year.

KevinP wrote: There is need-based aid, but it's very small, and it's reserved for the truly poor. Almost all law students at elite schools come from relatively well-off SES backgrounds (when parents' income is taken into account), and that's why you rarely hear about need-based aid on TLS. In terms of the most generous, GULC + HYS offer substantial need-aid. Other law schools offer much less (I know of a few people who got 20-40k from a few other T14s in need money, but they were legit poor--single parent household with no income).

See above, Berkeley and Penn both give up to 20k a year. I wouldn't call that "small."

r6_philly wrote:

KevinP wrote: There is need-based aid, but it's very small, and it's reserved for the truly poor. Almost all law students at elite schools come from relatively well-off SES backgrounds (when parents' income is taken into account), and that's why you rarely hear about need-based aid on TLS. In terms of the most generous, GULC + HYS offer substantial need-aid. Other law schools offer much less (I know of a few people who got 20-40k from a few other T14s in need money, but they were legit poor--single parent household with no income).

See above, Berkeley and Penn both give up to 20k a year. I wouldn't call that "small."

Small in the aggregate and in relation to merit money. As I said, I knew a few people who got near 40k at some of the T14s outside of GULC/HYS. It's also nowhere near the full rides merit money can get you outside of HYS nor is the pool of money allocated for need aid even close to the pool allocated for merit aid.

r6_philly wrote:

KevinP wrote: There is need-based aid, but it's very small, and it's reserved for the truly poor. Almost all law students at elite schools come from relatively well-off SES backgrounds (when parents' income is taken into account), and that's why you rarely hear about need-based aid on TLS. In terms of the most generous, GULC + HYS offer substantial need-aid. Other law schools offer much less (I know of a few people who got 20-40k from a few other T14s in need money, but they were legit poor--single parent household with no income).

See above, Berkeley and Penn both give up to 20k a year. I wouldn't call that "small."

Is Penn's need based aid based off your parents' income?

KevinP wrote:All applicants on LSN who have 170+/3.4+ and who EDed this cycle: http://penn.lawschoolnumbers.com/applic ... =3&type=jd

EDing to Penn would put you in the virtually autoadmit terrority.

However, if you are asking whether you should ED, the answer would depend on how debt averse you are. Penn has shown to have pretty impressive biglaw placement, even ITE.

Wow, ED really makes a massive difference. Penn's YP policy is infuriating. I would be thrilled to go to Penn, but it looks like I'll likely get waitlisted because I don't fall into that little green sliver of 170-172/3.8+ people who practically all get in. I just don't want to go badly enough to ED there and forego a shot at HYS/ $$$ from other T14 schools.