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Is it harder to get into T7 as an international?
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:31 pm
by psiovana
Is it harder to get into T7 as an international? I am not a URM
Re: Is it harder to get into T7 as an international?
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:48 pm
by bruss
psiovana wrote:Is it harder to get into T7 as an international? I am not a URM
Why do you think it would it be harder?
Re: Is it harder to get into T7 as an international?
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:50 pm
by Nova
No. Although, since your grades cant be converted for the purpose of rankings, more weight is given to your LSAT. Destroy the LSAT (by scoring above the median) and enjoy "T7".
Re: Is it harder to get into T7 as an international?
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:04 pm
by AntipodeanPhil
My take:
Y: No Difference
H: Harder
S: No Idea
C: Easier (until last year, at least)
C: Harder
N: No Difference
P: No Idea
V: No Difference
M: No Difference
My suspicion is that it starts to get easier as you head further down the rankings, as schools like to have a few internationals, and there aren't that many internationals with sub-170 scores.
Of course, this is all based on very limited anecdotal evidence - perhaps two or three dozen cases reported here and on LSN.
Also, US-educated internationals seem to be treated more like Americans at some/most schools (which makes sense, since they have a GPA). The list above is for foreign-educated internationals.
Re: Is it harder to get into T7 as an international?
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:16 pm
by AntipodeanPhil
bruss wrote:psiovana wrote:Is it harder to get into T7 as an international? I am not a URM
Why do you think it would it be harder?
All sorts of complicated reasons. The most obvious:
- Funding. Internationals can't get federal student loans, which creates a potential yield issue.
- Employablity. Most internationals want to work in the US, but firms have to fill out expensive paperwork to hire internationals, and doubts about English fluency can apparently be a problem. Law schools are very concerned about their employment stats right now.
There are also reasons why it might be easier:
- No GPA.
- Schools like diversity.
My guess is that different schools put different weights on these factors - along with various others, I'm sure.
Re: Is it harder to get into T7 as an international?
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:23 pm
by Nova
AntipodeanPhil wrote:
My suspicion is that it starts to get easier as you head further down the rankings, as schools like to have a few internationals, and there aren't that many internationals with sub-170 scores.
What?? It's safe to say at least 97% on international test takers do not score 170+
Re: Is it harder to get into T7 as an international?
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:29 pm
by moneybagsphd
Nova wrote:AntipodeanPhil wrote:
My suspicion is that it starts to get easier as you head further down the rankings, as schools like to have a few internationals, and there aren't that many internationals with sub-170 scores.
What?? It's safe to say at least 97% on international test takers do not score 170+
Re: Is it harder to get into T7 as an international?
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:40 pm
by AntipodeanPhil
Nova wrote:AntipodeanPhil wrote:
My suspicion is that it starts to get easier as you head further down the rankings, as schools like to have a few internationals, and there aren't that many internationals with sub-170 scores.
What?? It's safe to say at least 97% on international test takers do not score 170+
There aren't many internationals in general.
Internationals average a few points higher on the LSAT (due to self-selection, I'm sure), and I suspect most low-scoring internationals don't bother applying. If you look at international student percentages, a lot of the top schools are over 10%, but outside the top tier (and even lower in the top tier, I think), the percentage is usually in the range of 1-3% - not many relative to the total number of law students in this country, and not as many as the schools would like (which is what I meant).
It makes sense - most internationals won't have heard of the schools outside the top 20-30, and to attend those schools requires a lot of money and effort, and a great deal of risk and uncertainly (much more so than Americans).
Re: Is it harder to get into T7 as an international?
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:57 pm
by Br3v
I assumed being internat. Made it easier on account of diversity for schools. Figured that's why internat. applicant are labeled as so on LSN
Re: Is it harder to get into T7 as an international?
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:02 pm
by ben4847
psiovana wrote:Is it harder to get into T7 as an international? I am not a URM
I know there is no category "Top 7", so you must mean Tier 7. I don't know what Tier 7 is either, but it is probably reasonably easy to get in.
Re: Is it harder to get into T7 as an international?
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:09 pm
by Br3v
ben4847 wrote:psiovana wrote:Is it harder to get into T7 as an international? I am not a URM
I know there is no category "Top 7", so you must mean Tier 7. I don't know what Tier 7 is either, but it is probably reasonably easy to get in.
Shut up.
...that was a little harsh my bad, but clearly OP is referring to the top 7 schools. Just because he doesnt refer to any TLS preset abbreviations doesn't mean anything
Re: Is it harder to get into T7 as an international?
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:30 pm
by Nova
AntipodeanPhil wrote:Nova wrote:AntipodeanPhil wrote:
My suspicion is that it starts to get easier as you head further down the rankings, as schools like to have a few internationals, and there aren't that many internationals with sub-170 scores.
What?? It's safe to say at least 97% on international test takers do not score 170+
There aren't many internationals in general.
Internationals average a few points higher on the LSAT (due to self-selection, I'm sure), and I suspect most low-scoring internationals don't bother applying. If you look at international student percentages, a lot of the top schools are over 10%, but outside the top tier (and even lower in the top tier, I think), the percentage is usually in the range of 1-3% - not many relative to the total number of law students in this country, and not as many as the schools would like (which is what I meant).
It makes sense - most internationals won't have heard of the schools outside the top 20-30, and to attend those schools requires a lot of money and effort, and a great deal of risk and uncertainly (much more so than Americans).
Well, your original statement makes sense when you qualify it with "that actually apply and eventually matriculate". Still, for every 1 International applicant who scores 170+, there are about 19 that dont.
Br3v wrote:ben4847 wrote:psiovana wrote:Is it harder to get into T7 as an international? I am not a URM
I know there is no category "Top 7", so you must mean Tier 7. I don't know what Tier 7 is either, but it is probably reasonably easy to get in.
Shut up.
...that was a little harsh my bad, but clearly OP is referring to the top 7 schools. Just because he doesnt refer to any TLS preset abbreviations doesn't mean anything
Elaborate Michigan trolling, perhaps? Jk.