Top Law Schools

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/20/busin ... l?emc=eta1

Sorry if already posted, didn't see it.

Paul Campos posted the data, but not the NY Times article.

It will be interesting to see whether any fourth tier schools close. I'm worried they'll just give up on admission standards entirely, and I'm not convinced that a lower bar-passage rate at those schools three years later is going to lead to a "death spiral," as the article suggests. The people who attend those schools obviously don't do any significant research, or think of themselves as special flowers for whom the data is not relevant.

IMO, a school should lose ABA accreditation if less than 80% of the graduates pass the bar, and schools without ABA accreditation should not be eligible for federal student loan money.

All that's needed is a return to the 2005 bankruptcy law which permitted discharge of student loan debt in order to close down poorly performing law schools. Blame the credit card companies who got the bankruptcy laws changed.

CanadianWolf wrote:All that's needed is a return to the 2005 bankruptcy law which permitted discharge of student loan debt in order to close down poorly performing law schools. Blame the credit card companies who got the bankruptcy laws changed.

Interesting. Couldn't fourth-tier students still get federal loans, though? I thought that all you needed was: (a) acceptance to something that calls itself a law school; and (b) a non-awful credit history.

AntipodeanPhil wrote:

CanadianWolf wrote:All that's needed is a return to the 2005 bankruptcy law which permitted discharge of student loan debt in order to close down poorly performing law schools. Blame the credit card companies who got the bankruptcy laws changed.

Interesting. Couldn't fourth-tier students still get federal loans, though? I thought that all you needed was: (a) acceptance to something that calls itself a law school; and (b) a non-awful credit history.

You're right. The 2005 law was a change for private loans. Government loans have been like that for a very long time. So short answer is no, a return to 2005 bankruptcy law is not the only thing that is needed.

My understanding is that even government educational loans were dischargeable but subject to reaffirmation without prejuding the bankruptcy filing or discharge of other debts. In other words, the bankruptcy petioner could voluntarily exclude government backed student loans if included in his/her schedule of debts, but was not required to do so.

CanadianWolf wrote:My understanding is that even government educational loans were dischargeable but subject to reaffirmation without prejuding the bankruptcy filing or discharge of other debts. In other words, the bankruptcy petioner could voluntarily exclude government backed student loans if included in his/her schedule of debts, but was not required to do so.

No. Gov't loans were not dischargeable. If a school lost its accreditation or if it closed, then a case could be made for discharge. But bankruptcy never really worked (maybe .5% of the time). If you filed bankruptcy you could sometimes include your gov't loans in the filing, however, you would come out of bankruptcy still with the debt. Basically, by including it in the banko, you could buy yourself some breathing room and not have to worry about collectors calling you for a period of time.


At least that was my experience and I worked for 4-5 years collecting private and DOE student loans.

Did people ever get their payments lowered? Just curious.

splitbrain wrote:Did people ever get their payments lowered? Just curious.

Through consolidation, basically extending the life of the loan. There is a bare minimum payment that the lender will accept which is often lower than the payments offered but its rare anyone gets it. Also, if you fall in default you can pay often as little as $50 a month to rehabilitate your loan but once it comes out of default you'll be paying standard rate again.

Interesting, thank you.

before 2005 would declaring bankruptcy rid one of their school loans?

Jaeger wrote:

splitbrain wrote:Did people ever get their payments lowered? Just curious.

Through consolidation, basically extending the life of the loan. There is a bare minimum payment that the lender will accept which is often lower than the payments offered but its rare anyone gets it. Also, if you fall in default you can pay often as little as $50 a month to rehabilitate your loan but once it comes out of default you'll be paying standard rate again.

Check the default penalty on the loan. I don't know but I've heard it can be really high. Plus, of course, your credit will be even worse than it was before.

sunynp wrote:

Jaeger wrote:

splitbrain wrote:Did people ever get their payments lowered? Just curious.

Through consolidation, basically extending the life of the loan. There is a bare minimum payment that the lender will accept which is often lower than the payments offered but its rare anyone gets it. Also, if you fall in default you can pay often as little as $50 a month to rehabilitate your loan but once it comes out of default you'll be paying standard rate again.

Check the default penalty on the loan. I don't know but I've heard it can be really high. Plus, of course, your credit will be even worse than it was before.

Oh, I was certainly not advocating default. Your credit takes a big hit and collection fees generally in the 20% range are added to the loan. I was just saying if you did fall in default...