Top Law Schools

Who thinks this will be the case? I for one wouldn't be surprised if the downward trend continues.

Yes. Yale is desperate for apps.

t14fanboy wrote:Yes. Yale is desperate for apps.

Probably because everyone is heading to ASU.

emarxnj wrote:

t14fanboy wrote:Yes. Yale is desperate for apps.

Probably because everyone is heading to ASU.

^Bahahaha

t14fanboy wrote:Yes. Yale is desperate for apps.

Not as desperate as Harvard

I know nothing is explicit, but can this indicate anything? That is to say, schools accepting lower GPAs or lower LSATs than normal? Or is there still enough people to choose from?

Geetar Man wrote:I know nothing is explicit, but can this indicate anything? That is to say, schools accepting lower GPAs or lower LSATs than normal? Or is there still enough people to choose from?

It's too vague to have any reasonable implications. Different schools will have different things to deal with and it might affect one applicant but have no effect on another. Some schools will lower enrollment, some will have slightly lower medians, some won't even notice anything is changing (HYS), and others are probably going to really be sweating.

Geetar Man wrote:I know nothing is explicit, but can this indicate anything? That is to say, schools accepting lower GPAs or lower LSATs than normal? Or is there still enough people to choose from?

Here is one analysis of it, from a site that most on here seem to hold in high regard.

http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/fe ... years.html

The general consensus I see is somewhere between A) doesn't mean anything yet or B) won't be too significant. I was hoping to find better news too, but maybe the trend continues into the next cycle? That is 100% unfounded speculation though.

Just visited four mid-tier one schools last week. Their 2012-2103 cycles were inconsistent mostly trending down as would be expected, but with some showing improvement. One admission administrator summed it up pretty well by stating "all of our admissions models are broken, we don't know what to expect next year". This is what happens when 40,000 prospective customers (25%) disappear from the radar screen.
The next couple of years will be a lot of fun to watch schools jockey for position. It should be more of a buyer's market for the shrewd law student consumer.

^
Adcommms spew a lot of BS. Just look at how many called this cycle an "anamoly" or "cyclical." That's hardly the case, and unless there is a massive structural change in legal education, I strongly think the decline will continue, albeit at a constantly slower rate (something resembling a logarithmic function).

The 175+ group saw a decline of more than 33% (1/3rd) over the last 2 years. Considering law schools continue to increase prices amidst a depressed market, I expect the decline to continue, with the decline being felt at the top slightly more so than the bottom.

The data support a continued decline:
http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/ ... stered.asp

I also think the decline will continue. We will see some schools actually close until the market reaches equilibrium.

I think the effect of the decline will be interesting to watch, and that it will be as follows. HYSCCN virtually unchanged, with maybe slightly shifted LSAT ranges and a little more generosity in financial aid for 175+ scores among CCN. People will still want these schools badly because they have largely rebounded to pre-recession employment numbers. Lower T-14 will be battling harder for 170+ scores and their employment numbers aren't quite as good as they used to be, so this might result in a merit aid boost that is a little more pronounced than HYSCCN. After that, it will be a dogfight for applicants with decent LSATs, with lots of money thrown around for a long way down the list. Then you hit the botttom, where schools will be praying to just have people accept spots and won't even come close to filling classes anymore (i.e. Cooley and some other schools that have been propositioning GMAT takers etc.). These schools will shrink or close.

Borg wrote:I also think the decline will continue. We will see some schools actually close until the market reaches equilibrium.

I think the effect of the decline will be interesting to watch, and that it will be as follows. HYSCCN virtually unchanged, with maybe slightly shifted LSAT ranges and a little more generosity in financial aid for 175+ scores among CCN. People will still want these schools badly because they have largely rebounded from pre-recession numbers. Lower T-14 will be battling harder for 170+ scores and their employment numbers aren't quite as good as they used to be, so this might result in a merit aid boost that is a little more pronounced than HYSCCN. After that, it will be a dogfight for applicants with decent LSATs, with lots of money thrown around for a long way down the list. Then you hit the botttom, where schools will be praying to just have people accept spots and won't even come close to filling classes anymore (i.e. Cooley and some other schools that have been propositioning GMAT takers etc.).

I think only YS will remain virtually unchanged. HCCN will almost certainly feel strong pressure. If this year's GPA breakdown by applicants resembled last year* even remotely, it would be nearly impossible for HCCN to maintain their medians and splits without reducing class sizes. And this doesn't even take into account the fact that candidates with the required numbers (1) end up choosing not to go and (2) are choosing lower ranked schools with money.

Also, HCCN have not largely rebounded from pre-recession. They are definitely in better positions than for the C/O 2011, but hardly pre-ITE, where almost everyone from CLS with a pulse could get biglaw and multiple offers.

*LSAC National Decision Profile 2011

I think as the information asymmetry lessens and more accurate data on cost, debt and employment becomes available, applications are going to continue to drop sugnificantly. There simply aren't enough jobs that justify the debt and time sink of law school. I think a significant number of people starting this year, even those on this forum, are going to regret it. Applications are dropping because schools lied about just about every aspect of law and employment. But now people are getting better information.
I'm anxious to see how this years OCI hiring shakes out,I hope I'm wrong, but I think at best it will be about the same as last year. I've started to understand that people don't understand the employment crises until they experience OCI.

emarxnj wrote:

t14fanboy wrote:Yes. Yale is desperate for apps.

Probably because everyone is heading to ASU.

This is perhaps the funniest post I've ever read on this thread. Nicely done.

Bump.

emkay625 wrote:

emarxnj wrote:

t14fanboy wrote:Yes. Yale is desperate for apps.

Probably because everyone is heading to ASU.

This is perhaps the funniest post I've ever read on this thread. Nicely done.

so what's the story here?