... Forum

[Tiago Splitter]

I am so confused. Unless I'm just reading this completely incorrectly, don't these two sections directly contradict each other?

No. The first section deals with withdrawals, the second with any kind of failure.

Calm. Down.

[SYoshi11]

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[20130312]

See a psychiatrist , you may actually have neurosis.

In the meantime, why don't you just wait and see what they calculate your grade as before you have an anxiety attack? Also, you may want to take a stab at doing well in that course...

[Mr. Pancakes]

See a psychiatrist , you may actually have neurosis.

In the meantime, why don't you just wait and see what they calculate your grade as before you have an anxiety attack? Also, you may want to take a stab at doing well in that course...

truth.

[psm11]

Here is the story:

I signed up for a class in the beginning of the semester and a week later went to my course enroll to drop it. Then, after the drop deadline, I find out it has not been dropped. I've never attended the class, never bought a book, and don't even know what the Professor looks like...because I thought the class had been dropped. My school is making me take a withdrawl, and it will show credit attempted on my transcript, meaning LSAC will count it as an F. This drops my GPA from a 3.91, to a 3.69.

My lsat is 179.

What just happened to my life?

Similar thing happened to me but my school counts withdrawals as non punitive. My undergraduate dean didn't count it against me because I showed that I never attended a session and never did any work for the class. How exactly did the school not drop it if you went a week after to get out of it?

[SYoshi11]

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[swoozie]

I don't want to be a jerk about it, but if LSAC isn't giving you a clear answer, how can you expect other random applicants to??

I can tell you what I think though and you can take it how you'd like:
If it only shows up as a W, my expectation is that it won't count against you in your LSAC GPA (plus the fact your school doesn't count it as punitive). I took a course my sr. year as a listener (so not really the same situation at all) and decided about 2 weeks in that I was done with that class and never showed up again. I didn't realize if you didn't show up the professor could actually make it into a withdrawal, even as a listener (I think it came up LW - listener withdrawal or something)...it showed up on my transcript as 0.0/3.0 credits. This did freak me out when I was applying (credits attempted, I think I read that same line!) but in the end, it didn't count against my UG GPA or my LSAC GPA.

I'm not the best predictor but imho even with an F, I'd say you are pretty much top 10 secure, great shot at T6. If you are set on T3, then yeah...make sure you don't have an F.

[SYoshi11]

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[Gail]

To Gail:

So what do you think I should expect? What would your advice to me be?

Would you simply just die if you had to settle for UVA? If you want Yale, Harvard, Stanford, I'd suggest a first and accomplish something unique.

These are the crem de la crem. Without a very high GPA and a very high LSAT, you have to give yourself every opportunity to standout because you're competing with the best.

[Mr. Pancakes]

To Gail:

So what do you think I should expect? What would your advice to me be?

Would you simply just die if you had to settle for UVA? If you want Yale, Harvard, Stanford, I'd suggest a first and accomplish something unique.

These are the crem de la crem. Without a very high GPA and a very high LSAT, you have to give yourself every opportunity to standout because you're competing with the best.

retake seems to be TCR.

[20130312]

retake seems to be TCR.

Retake undergrad, HTH.

[spleenworship]

quick question. according the LSAC website:

Grades Excluded from Conversion:

Withdrawal grades that signify failure (such as WF=Withdraw/Fail, WU=Withdrew Unsatisfactory, WNP=Withdrew Not Passing) if the issuing school considers the grade nonpunitive.

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But then, in a later paragraph it says:

Any grade notation that signifies failure (such as No Credit, No Credit/Fail, Not Passing, Incomplete/Fail, Withdraw/Fail, Unsatisfactory, Fail, etc.) is converted to zero on the 4.0 scale and is included in the calculation of the GPA, even if the issuing school considers the grade to be nonpunitive.



I am so confused. Unless I'm just reading this completely incorrectly, don't these two sections directly contradict each other?

Oh my gawd... aren't you getting a fricking W in the class? Not a WF? So don't even worry about it. It will be excluded, most likely. If it won't there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. I'll let you in on a secret here: most of life is largely out of your control. The sooner you learn to chill, the better.

[MellowMantis]

Nothing. Just write an addendum.[/quote]

[snehpets]

i can't tell if you're actually believing these people trolling you by saying you'll have to go to UVA now. You're pretty much guaranteed to get into AT LEAST nyu and probably CLS as well, so you haven't exactly shut yourself out of the T-6. Also, this is probably going to count as a non-punitive withdrawal anyway. people are just trying to freak you out.

[SYoshi11]

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[Gail]

C'est la vie

[spleenworship]

Yeah, everything I've been told suggests it will be just a 'W'. I know it 'most likely' won't count against me...but that is what scares me. I don't know why no one can just say what it is or is not going to be (not posters, but LSAC). If its a failing grade, I'd rather stay in the class and fight.

And, gail, yeah I know these are the best of the best. I did have a high gpa and a high lsat...unless this W thing kills me.

You really need to relax more. Seriously.

Since you don't know what is going to happen you have to decide based off what you do know now.

Option 1: Drop and get a 3.69 GPA and 179 LSAT if the W is punitive. We'll assign that a 20% chance.
Option 2: Work hard and get a 3.88 GPA and a 179 LSAT if you get a C (3.84 or so with a D). We'll assign that a 70% chance. We'll give the possibility of an F anyway at 30%.

So, which do you want?

An 80% chance at a 3.91 with a 20% chance of a 3.69?

Or a 70% chance at a 3.84-3.88 with a 30% chance of a 3.69?

You need to deal with the situation as best you can. Make a choice and stop worrying about it.

ETA; also, how many more credit hours do you have to get your degree? you might be able to make even a 3.69 better with a few semesters of 4.0.

[SYoshi11]

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[SYoshi11]

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[spleenworship]

^ Wow, thanks. yeah , i guess that is the decision to be made.

Though, if I get a D in the class, then my GPA is a 3.75 instead of a 3.69. Moreover, after talking to the Professor, he seems skeptical that I should continue to be enrolled in the class. If I get a C I'll be at a 3.8. If I took the class, I'd expect between a C and a D.

The prof isn't rooting for you? Drop it.

Then go drink.

Problem solved, /thread.

[powder]

http://www.lsac.org/policies/transcript ... zation.asp

Grades Excluded From Conversion
Withdraw, Withdraw/Pass—only if the issuing school considers the grade nonpunitive.
Incomplete—only if the issuing school considers the grade nonpunitive.

Withdrawal grades that signify failure (such as WF=Withdraw/Fail, WU=Withdrew Unsatisfactory, WNP=Withdrew Not Passing) if the issuing school considers the grade nonpunitive. The total number of credits assigned to these grades will appear on the applicant's academic summary, but will not be included in the GPA calculation

Failing Grades
Any grade notation that signifies failure (such as No Credit, No Credit/Fail, Not Passing, Incomplete/Fail, Withdraw/Fail, Unsatisfactory, Fail, etc.) is converted to zero on the 4.0 scale and is included in the calculation of the GPA, even if the issuing school considers the grade to be nonpunitive. Failure is defined as credit attempted but not earned.

I read the same thing you did and there is a contradiction. A conservative reading is that a W or a WP that your school considers non-punitive won't count. Conversely, if you have a notation that indicates failure, you're screwed regardless of what your school thinks of its own grading system. If it's just a plain W and non-punitive, everything is fine. And if not, you're still fine. Just not at Yale.

For the record, you ruined a perfectly good, slightly lazy afternoon. I read this thread, vaguely remembered a W from forever ago, wondered briefly, and then went through the trouble of looking up my transcript and the LSAC policy. If my W is an F in disguise, than my case is more foolish than yours; I took a W when I could have bypassed this nonsense by taking the final and passing the class.

And for almost no reason at all, a quote from the Guide:

First, it is slightly cheaper; and secondly it has the words DON'T PANIC inscribed in large friendly letters on its cover.

[bassasaurusrex]

Wow this thread is silly. The more time you waste the more chance there is that the 'W' will turn into a 'WF' as many schools have different withdrawal thresholds. (though it sounds like your school already told you it would be a non-punitive 'W' so I'm not sure why you continue to waste time?)

Also, most school adcomms aren't completely daft. Read the interviews on this site and you'll see that most of them look at trends more than they looks solely at the end result in terms of GPA. One poor grade in one class isn't 'the end of the world' as you have suggested. You can write an addendum explaining it but I would almost hesitate to do that in your case. What can you say? "I"m a dope who didn't verify that I was indeed dropped when I went to drop a course" or something to that effect? That level of negligence and/or irresponsibility doesn't exactly scream "future lawyer" to me.

From what I have read so far from you, you read like a person who is incredibly immature and indecisive. If that carries over into your PS and optional essays that will kill you more than a single 'W' ever will.

Honestly, you sound like a person who should be doing anything but applying to law school straight out of UG. Work for 2 years, get a Master's, join some more clubs, do more volunteer work...something...basically grow as a human being. Right now, with all due respect, you sound too much like a lost confused child looking for 'mommy' to tell you what to do.

I truly wish you the best of luck.The LSAT is the hardest part of applying and you have a score most people would envy.

[SYoshi11]

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[snehpets]

TBF, as a k-jd even with a 179 a 3.69 could definitely shut him out of Harvard. I agree he needs to chill out and it'll probably be non-punitive, but it's obviously not ideal.

[SYoshi11]

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