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Complete info about my cycle is here: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/westinghouse60 so I don't have to waste a lot of time detailing everything.

Was WL'd at UVA and Mich yesterday, Columbia and Penn Thursday. Pretty bad news, and I feel like I underperformed during this cycle given my numbers, but now I need to consider the possibility of taking a year off. Here's my considerations:

1) If I take a year off, next year I would apply early decision to one of NYU/Penn/UVA and lock up going there, which I really regret not doing this cycle. Any of those schools have better placement than Cornell for biglaw and cost about the same, so I would be better off in that sense.
2) There just aren't any real jobs around, so taking a year off would mean moving back home and working in a restaurant or grocery store etc. I'd be able to save up some money (not anything significant though), but I'm not sure I could bring myself to turn down Cornell for a year living at home working at some job that didn't require a degree, even if it did mean getting to go to a T10 the next year.

Any advice? I certainly wouldn't mind going to Cornell/Vandy if I get $$$ by any means, but I'd hate to think I underperformed and am severely limiting my chances at biglaw. I also assume its pretty unlikely I'll get off the waitlist anywhere...

You have a lousy (relatively) GPA. I'd be happy with Cornell. But that's me.

Jaeger wrote:You have a lousy (relatively) GPA. I'd be happy with Cornell. But that's me.

That's not really the issue though, it's deciding if I want to take a year off and ED to a T10. 175/3.4 ED should be close to a lock at UVA or Penn.

ED for sure. Take a year off. Apply for a job teaching the LSAT maybe? Testmasters pays like 40/hour. You are selling yourself short. Also apply a lot earlier next year. You'll have a much better turnout.

Your first mistake is going to law school so you can get into big-law....IF YOU WANT TO GET INTO BIG-LAW, YOU BETTER GET A FULL-RIDE because if you slip in class rank, you will be crushed with serious debt when all the big law firms reject you with no work experience and a low class rank......

Also, I'd be driving to VA and talking with admissinONS asap, so you can get off that wait-list. Start hammering all those schools with letters of interest. Also, that WashU scholarship is low...A 175? That should be a full-ride, start negotiating hard....

ucbkenn wrote:ED for sure. Take a year off. Apply for a job teaching the LSAT maybe? Testmasters pays like 40/hour. You are selling yourself short. Also apply a lot earlier next year. You'll have a much better turnout.

This is solid advice all around

Jaeger wrote:You have a lousy (relatively) GPA. I'd be happy with Cornell. But that's me.

Terrible advice.

ucbkenn wrote:ED for sure. Take a year off. Apply for a job teaching the LSAT maybe? Testmasters pays like 40/hour. You are selling yourself short. Also apply a lot earlier next year. You'll have a much better turnout.

This is not that big of a deal for OP (he wasn't applying in January or something...). I can guarantee you that if OP had EDed in Nov instead of RD he would have gotten his choice of V or P (M is slightly more holistic).

OP sorry about how the cycle turned out for you. But as you yourself note, you are a near lock with an ED app to UVA or Penn (not actually that sure myself about NYU but you have a good shot). I understand that there is something psychologically disheartening to be sitting and working at home when the people you graduated with are at school, but law school will always be there.

Even if you can save up a little money by working, I think it is worth it to take your time and maximize your chances by going to the best school that you can (plus the economy may be better when you do OCI).

you can probably still switch your app at UVA to ED. They've been known to let people in that way. I heard a kid got rejected and then asked to switch to ED. He got accepted that week.

You are not severely limiting your chances at Biglaw by going to Cornell rather than UVA, or Michigan for instance. The only one that I would consider to be a big step up from Cornell is NYU (possibly Penn). That said, I don't think you'll do any worse next year, and the year of WE would look good to employers. I think that ED is usually a mistake, because I hate the thought of paying sticker. I would apply to the full plate early next year, make sure your entire application looks good, and leverage any financial aid offers against one another (Cornell or Vandy may throw you some money now for the WUTSL money - but probably not). Also, I guess it is tough to get $ when your GPA is lower than most school's 25. Good luck, though. Sorry about your cycle.

JamMasterJ wrote:you can probably still switch your app at UVA to ED. They've been known to let people in that way. I heard a kid got rejected and then asked to switch to ED. He got accepted that week.

Wow bro. You are underperforming your numbers so hard. Sorry about the crummy cycle, but you will prob get something by the end.

gaud wrote:

ucbkenn wrote:ED for sure. Take a year off. Apply for a job teaching the LSAT maybe? Testmasters pays like 40/hour. You are selling yourself short. Also apply a lot earlier next year. You'll have a much better turnout.

This is solid advice all around

Or do something interesting for a year. Having something to talk about during interviews is a boost come job time. Get some perspectives on your essays and retool it. You should do better next year.

Sorry to hear about your situation, OP.

I like the idea that you should take a year off and teach the LSAT but before you do that, have you considered a soft/email ED to your favorite MVP? As in telling one of them that if you're admitted, you'll matriculate this year with their school. IIRC it's been successfully done at NU.

JamMasterJ wrote:you can probably still switch your app at UVA to ED. They've been known to let people in that way. I heard a kid got rejected and then asked to switch to ED. He got accepted that week.

I'd try this

How exactly do I do this? I mean obviously emailing them, but will it hold the same weight as a binding ED? Is there any way I can officially switch my UVA app to ED, so that I have to attend if admitted? It seems like that would hold a lot more sway than just promising you'd matriculate.

westinghouse60 wrote:How exactly do I do this? I mean obviously emailing them, but will it hold the same weight as a binding ED? Is there any way I can officially switch my UVA app to ED, so that I have to attend if admitted? It seems like that would hold a lot more sway than just promising you'd matriculate.

I doubt it would carry the same weight as ED, but I do think the school will take you seriously. You could email UVA and ask if there is a process for switching one's application from regular to ED.

From UVA's website about the waitlist (http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/prospe ... itlist.htm)
Is there anything I can do to enhance my chances? E-mail us at lawadmit@virginia.edu. If the University of Virginia is your first choice and you would unhesitatingly accept an offer of admission, this is the time to let us know. Grades from the Spring semester can also be a good way to demonstrate a continued rising grade trend. Please submit your spring grades through The Law School Data Assembly Service (LSDAS), which will update your Law School Report for each of the schools to which you have applied. Additional letters of recommendation will probably make little difference unless they provide new substantive information.

Wait if you want Penn or CCN. Mich and UVA is not worth it over Cornell to wait, especially if you are focused on biglaw.

johansantana21 wrote:Wait if you want Penn or CCN. Mich and UVA is not worth it over Cornell to wait, especially if you are focused on biglaw.

I love how every year the new NLJ250 numbers completely change everything on TLS.

johansantana21 wrote:Wait if you want Penn or CCN. Mich and UVA is not worth it over Cornell to wait, especially if you are focused on biglaw.

Just so wrong. lol

OP I would try to switch ED to your favorite MVP if they will let you. Otherwise wait a year and ED in september. Going to cornell this cycle would be a crime unless they give you $.

barneytrouble wrote:

johansantana21 wrote:Wait if you want Penn or CCN. Mich and UVA is not worth it over Cornell to wait, especially if you are focused on biglaw.

Just so wrong. lol

OP I would try to switch ED to your favorite MVP if they will let you. Otherwise wait a year and ED in september. Going to cornell this cycle would be a crime unless they give you $.

Do you get paid to troll by Cornell's Career Services?

UVA is my top choice amoung MVP, do you think they're the most likely to let me in off the WL if I send them an LOCI saying I would definitely attend there if admitted? (As sort of a late ED, although I'd love to somehow officially switch my app to official ED if anyone knows how.) I'd also write regular LOCIs to CLS Penn and Mich asking to remain on their waitlist.

westinghouse60 wrote:UVA is my top choice amoung MVP, do you think they're the most likely to let me in off the WL if I send them an LOCI saying I would definitely attend there if admitted? (As sort of a late ED, although I'd love to somehow officially switch my app to official ED if anyone knows how.) I'd also write regular LOCIs to CLS Penn and Mich asking to remain on their waitlist.

I would think that if you send in the email this week explaining to them that you are committed to matriculating to Virginia if admitted you have a more than 50% at acceptance. This would obviously mean you would be required to matriculate next year. I will say that if you sat out a cycle you would be a virtual lock for NYU & Penn ED, a decent shot at ED Mich, and a toss up at UChi. If you think waiting a year (not sending the LOCI to UVA) is worth it for NYU than sit out. IMO, the biglaw opportunity cost of waiting a year for slightly better chances at biglaw from NYU than UVA is definitely not worth it. Thus I would send the LOCI to UVA. However, you could sit out a year and get good money from Cornell if that is what you really wanted.

My vote is to send the LOCI to UVA. It is almost March but their official FB group has only slightly above 100 members/375 so this may indicate that they are still looking for a large amount of candidates.

PM me if you want info on Cornell and BigLaw. There are lots of reasons not to come here. Thinking you don't have a good shot at BigLaw compared to Michigan or UVA isn't one of them.

Go to Cornell absolutely. You can't bank on getting in at different places next cycle, even if you ED. And ED = paying sticker price--I don't think a T10 at sticker is worth it.

Cornell has good placement. Some prestige. Small class size. Low COL, and you might get a bit of a scholarship.

Didn't really read the thread too well, sorry if I'm off on my advice/missed the particulars of your situation. =)


Edit: rough tuition estimates for sticker at NYU $165 + rough COL $60 = 225 + interest. How much money can you realistically save to put a dent in that? Even if you get biglaw, it will take you a VERY long time to pay that off bro.

Has Cornell given you any $$$?

LOCI/ED to UVA is sounding like a good option, because even though I want biglaw, it would be nice to have some options since UVA places in NYC, DC, and southern (as I live in the south now) biglaw rather than essentially being locked into NYC, although obviously that wouldn't be a horrible option.

I haven't heard any thing about $$$ from Cornell or Vanderbilt, and I'd really like to know what their offers are (if any) and go to their ASDs (both are in the next few weeks) before emailing UVA, but I'm also worried that if I wait to email UVA that will hurt my chances of getting in off the WL. But then that brings me back to where I started...I didn't ED anywhere originally because I wanted to see about schollys.

By the way, how large of an offer should I consider from Vandy to go there over Cornell, and Vandy/Cornell over UVA? I know its based on personal risk aversion etc but objectively?

westinghouse60 wrote: By the way, how large of an offer should I consider from Vandy to go there over Cornell, and Vandy/Cornell over UVA? I know its based on personal risk aversion etc but objectively?

Depends on person. For me, minimum 45k from Vandy over Cornell sticker, and around 45k from Cornell over UVA.