About those emails offering to waive application fee... Forum

[Philosopher King]

SO I have received dozens of emails from law schools offering to waive their application fees before I took the LSAT. I just assumed they were TTTT schools and never took it seriously. Now, I just got a bunch today after an email confirming my second transcript was received from LSAC. There are a few serious, top 100 schools. One is from W&L Law in Lexington, Virginia, for example, which is ranked no. 30 with an LSAT range of 161-167. The email says: "A law school candidate with your credentials has no doubt received invitations to apply from a number of fine institutions. However, because I believe you will find W&L Law is genuinely different from other schools, I hope you will consider one more invitation."

So I guess the question is, do they actually know my credentials or are they just BSing me. Because if they knew my credentials they would know that I have a 155 LSAT, and I highly doubt any "fine institutions" are interested in me beyond a good person to have on their wait list.

[rinkrat19]

One thing factored into USNWR rankings is selectivity (percentage of total applicants accepted). Schools want as many people as possible to apply so they can reject as many as possible while keeping their medians as high as possible. If your numbers aren't in the ballpark for a certain school and they still sent you a waiver, they want you to apply so they can reject you.

[Philosopher King]

One thing factored into USNWR rankings is selectivity (percentage of total applicants accepted). Schools want as many people as possible to apply so they can reject as many as possible while keeping their medians as high as possible. If your numbers aren't in the ballpark for a certain school and they still sent you a waiver, they want you to apply so they can reject you.

Oh I see that makes sense. What a corrupt system. It's even worse than I thought. "Scandalous" doesn't even begin to describe what's going on here.

[rinkrat19]

One thing factored into USNWR rankings is selectivity (percentage of total applicants accepted). Schools want as many people as possible to apply so they can reject as many as possible while keeping their medians as high as possible. If your numbers aren't in the ballpark for a certain school and they still sent you a waiver, they want you to apply so they can reject you.

Oh I see that makes sense. What a corrupt system. It's even worse than I thought. "Scandalous" doesn't even begin to describe what's going on here.

You're overdoing it.

[lifqiu]

If you don't think you'll get in (even SLIGHTLY), don't spend that 16$ on the report fee to LSAC. Fee waivers are one thing, but all the LSAC report fees add up.

[franklyscarlet]

One thing factored into USNWR rankings is selectivity (percentage of total applicants accepted). Schools want as many people as possible to apply so they can reject as many as possible while keeping their medians as high as possible. If your numbers aren't in the ballpark for a certain school and they still sent you a waiver, they want you to apply so they can reject you.

Oh I see that makes sense. What a corrupt system. It's even worse than I thought. "Scandalous" doesn't even begin to describe what's going on here.

You're overdoing it.

[MrPapagiorgio]

One thing factored into USNWR rankings is selectivity (percentage of total applicants accepted). Schools want as many people as possible to apply so they can reject as many as possible while keeping their medians as high as possible. If your numbers aren't in the ballpark for a certain school and they still sent you a waiver, they want you to apply so they can reject you.

Oh I see that makes sense. What a corrupt system. It's even worse than I thought. "Scandalous" doesn't even begin to describe what's going on here.

You're overdoing it.

[arodd53]

How about fee waivers coming late in the cycle (December and later)? Are those genuine "you're a good candidate" waivers, or are they "we want to reject you to boost our selectivity" waivers?

[rinkrat19]

How about fee waivers coming late in the cycle (December and later)? Are those genuine "you're a good candidate" waivers, or are they "we want to reject you to boost our selectivity" waivers?

Your numbers indicate whether you are a good candidate. Period.

[Jante05]

One thing factored into USNWR rankings is selectivity (percentage of total applicants accepted). Schools want as many people as possible to apply so they can reject as many as possible while keeping their medians as high as possible. If your numbers aren't in the ballpark for a certain school and they still sent you a waiver, they want you to apply so they can reject you.

that just blew my mind

[Nate895]

SO I have received dozens of emails from law schools offering to waive their application fees before I took the LSAT. I just assumed they were TTTT schools and never took it seriously. Now, I just got a bunch today after an email confirming my second transcript was received from LSAC. There are a few serious, top 100 schools. One is from W&L Law in Lexington, Virginia, for example, which is ranked no. 30 with an LSAT range of 161-167. The email says: "A law school candidate with your credentials has no doubt received invitations to apply from a number of fine institutions. However, because I believe you will find W&L Law is genuinely different from other schools, I hope you will consider one more invitation."

So I guess the question is, do they actually know my credentials or are they just BSing me. Because if they knew my credentials they would know that I have a 155 LSAT, and I highly doubt any "fine institutions" are interested in me beyond a good person to have on their wait list.

Washington and Lee doesn't have an application fee to begin with, so they can't waive a non-existent fee.

[Philosopher King]

SO I have received dozens of emails from law schools offering to waive their application fees before I took the LSAT. I just assumed they were TTTT schools and never took it seriously. Now, I just got a bunch today after an email confirming my second transcript was received from LSAC. There are a few serious, top 100 schools. One is from W&L Law in Lexington, Virginia, for example, which is ranked no. 30 with an LSAT range of 161-167. The email says: "A law school candidate with your credentials has no doubt received invitations to apply from a number of fine institutions. However, because I believe you will find W&L Law is genuinely different from other schools, I hope you will consider one more invitation."

So I guess the question is, do they actually know my credentials or are they just BSing me. Because if they knew my credentials they would know that I have a 155 LSAT, and I highly doubt any "fine institutions" are interested in me beyond a good person to have on their wait list.

Washington and Lee doesn't have an application fee to begin with, so they can't waive a non-existent fee.

That's not necessarily true. I was once told in a letter from a man that it was a pleasure meeting me but I had never met the guy. So stuff like this happens all the time apparently even though it is logically impossible.

[bigeast03]

I was once told in a letter from a man that it was a pleasure meeting me

I had never met the guy.

You don't say

[ConfidenceMan2]

Don't you have like a 4.0? I don't think W&L is necessarily being dishonest. You'd probably be in.

http://wl.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

(and, generally, http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com)

[Philosopher King]

Don't you have like a 4.0? I don't think W&L is necessarily being dishonest. You'd probably be in.

http://wl.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

(and, generally, http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com)

That's a good point. This could be one of those schools that likes high GPAs. I'm sure there are some schools they weigh LSAT and GPA more equally than other schools do.

[Nate895]

Don't you have like a 4.0? I don't think W&L is necessarily being dishonest. You'd probably be in.

http://wl.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

(and, generally, http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com)

That's a good point. This could be one of those schools that likes high GPAs. I'm sure there are some schools they weigh LSAT and GPA more equally than other schools do.

Washington and Lee is not one of them. The admissions dean told me in person that he heavily prefers the LSAT over GPA because their is little way to compare GPAs from various schools. Your 4.0 might mean less than a 3.5 somewhere else. That's why the LSAT is the great equalizer, and it is weighted heavier in the rankings.

[backwards54]

SO I have received dozens of emails from law schools offering to waive their application fees before I took the LSAT. I just assumed they were TTTT schools and never took it seriously. Now, I just got a bunch today after an email confirming my second transcript was received from LSAC. There are a few serious, top 100 schools. One is from W&L Law in Lexington, Virginia, for example, which is ranked no. 30 with an LSAT range of 161-167. The email says: "A law school candidate with your credentials has no doubt received invitations to apply from a number of fine institutions. However, because I believe you will find W&L Law is genuinely different from other schools, I hope you will consider one more invitation."

So I guess the question is, do they actually know my credentials or are they just BSing me. Because if they knew my credentials they would know that I have a 155 LSAT, and I highly doubt any "fine institutions" are interested in me beyond a good person to have on their wait list.

Hey! I received the same email as you from W&L.

I have no idea about your situation, but I think they have a way of knowing because among the numerous fee waiver offers I have received, more of them spoke directly to me and mentionned my LSAT score!

[luthersloan]

An email like that was the only reason I applied to W&L. They admitted me with a half-scholarship, so it is not necessarily a ploy.

[Philosopher King]

Washington and Lee is not one of them. The admissions dean told me in person that he heavily prefers the LSAT over GPA because their is little way to compare GPAs from various schools. Your 4.0 might mean less than a 3.5 somewhere else. That's why the LSAT is the great equalizer, and it is weighted heavier in the rankings.

Oh please, don't give me this "great equalizer" thing. They could flip coins too you know. What good is the LSAT if it doesn't predict success in law school? I just don't get this way of thinking. How can anyone honestly beleive that some silly three hour multiple choice test (with equally silly rules and regulations) that has nothing to do with the law says more about a person's ability to succeed in law school than a 4.0 GPA with a double major in political science and philosophy majors from a highly respected state university which includes hundreds of pages of essays and research papers, countless in-class exams, countless in-class lecture hours, and countless hours of studying and homework. Who in their right mind think this makes any sense?

[Nate895]

An email like that was the only reason I applied to W&L. They admitted me with a half-scholarship, so it is not necessarily a ploy.

It isn't necessarily, but it very well could be. I've received some mail and quite a bit of email from them even though my LSAT and GPA combo leads me to believe I'm a T1 auto-reject (save maybe a couple lower T1's). To be fair, I visited the school, but much of the email seemed to be of a mass-email sort.

[Philosopher King]

Hey! I received the same email as you from W&L.

I have no idea about your situation, but I think they have a way of knowing because among the numerous fee waiver offers I have received, more of them spoke directly to me and mentioned my LSAT score!

Thanks for sharing your experience.

An email like that was the only reason I applied to W&L. They admitted me with a half-scholarship, so it is not necessarily a ploy.

Thank you as well.

[Nate895]

Washington and Lee is not one of them. The admissions dean told me in person that he heavily prefers the LSAT over GPA because their is little way to compare GPAs from various schools. Your 4.0 might mean less than a 3.5 somewhere else. That's why the LSAT is the great equalizer, and it is weighted heavier in the rankings.

Oh please, don't give me this "great equalizer" thing. They could flip coins too you know. What good is the LSAT if it doesn't predict success in law school? I just don't get this way of thinking. How anyone can honestly beleive that some silly three hour multiple choice test (with equally silly rules and regulations) that has nothing to do with the law says more about a person's ability to succeed in law school than a 4.0 GPA with a double major in political science and philosophy majors from a highly respected state university which includes hundreds of pages of essays and research papers, countless in-class exams, countless in-class lecture hours, and countless hours of studying and homework. Who in their right mind think this makes any sense?

One thing you should note: Your philosophy major will work against with your LSAT score. Philosophy/Religion majors tie for second highest average LSAT score, and you are below that average if I do recall (I think they average 157.4, first is math majors with 160). That means your performed worse than your peers in your major.

As far as it predicting how well you do in law school, it is actually a fairly good predictor of your grades in law school from what I have read. Consider that law schools all boils down to final exam based on similar reasoning patterns to the ones found on the LSAT. How well you do on the LSAT should mirror very well how you will perform in law school. It isn't perfect, but neither is your GPA a perfect predictor. Taken together, they give admissions deans a fairly complete picture of how well an applicant will do.

[Philosopher King]

One thing you should note: Your philosophy major will work against with your LSAT score. Philosophy/Religion majors tie for second highest average LSAT score, and you are below that average if I do recall (I think they average 157.4, first is math majors with 160). That means your performed worse than your peers in your major.

As far as it predicting how well you do in law school, it is actually a fairly good predictor of your grades in law school from what I have read. Consider that law schools all boils down to final exam based on similar reasoning patterns to the ones found on the LSAT. How well you do on the LSAT should mirror very well how you will perform in law school. It isn't perfect, but neither is your GPA a perfect predictor. Taken together, they give admissions deans a fairly complete picture of how well an applicant will do.

I don't think that works against me. It is only further evidence that philosophy majors have the skills the LSAT tests for. It helps to demonstrate that the LSAT doesn't reflect my true abilities. I really wish I took the SATs because I know I would not have gotten a high score. Then I could argue that the LSAT will predict my law school performance as much as the SAT did my undergrad. What a tragedy I never took the SATs. I printed out a practice test and I'm thinking of taking it tomorrow under the appropriate conditions to see what I score. I'm a non-standard person.

[Philosopher King]

I was once told in a letter from a man that it was a pleasure meeting me

I had never met the guy.

You don't say

It's a true story. I swear! I have been trying to make sense of it since. You don't need to be a philosophy major to know that there is something wrong with that.

[Mal Reynolds]

Oh please, don't give me this "great equalizer" thing. They could flip coins too you know. What good is the LSAT if it doesn't predict success in law school? I just don't get this way of thinking. How can anyone honestly beleive that some silly three hour multiple choice test (with equally silly rules and regulations) that has nothing to do with the law says more about a person's ability to succeed in law school than a 4.0 GPA with a double major in political science and philosophy majors from a highly respected state university which includes hundreds of pages of essays and research papers, countless in-class exams, countless in-class lecture hours, and countless hours of studying and homework. Who in their right mind think this makes any sense?

But, why you so mad?