The Law School Scam Forum

[Richie Tenenbaum]

so if you are extremely good looking it helps

For men: I think definitely. For women: maybe more of a mixed big, but probably still helps on average.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

the odds are you will be fucked. if you get a job, it's because you are lucky. even then, you are probably fucked. htmfh.

It's amazing how bad of a poster you are. Even on issues where we might actually believe the same things, the way you get your point across is so stupid that I just want to disagree with you on everything.

[HeavenWood]

MTal, you seem to be doing well for yourself. What are you currently doing and how did you get there? (in case worst comes to worst, I wanna have some alternative career paths in mind). I'm a fairly decent writer, but I feel like getting another, even more useless, advanced degree is probably not the way to go. The problem is, I majored in poli sci. Should I go back to school and get another bachelor's in business or something?

[whuts4lunch]

Do not understand this logic. Time to evaluate you? They do a 20-30 minute screening interview of you and several dozen other people. Grades are a lot more indicative than that setting in most cases.

Once you make it past the screener to a callback, the game obviously changes (though grades still matter - just not as much).

There is plenty to evaluate. Resume, foreign language ability, sales ability, personality, business savvy, recommendations from previous employers, maybe a writing sample.

You can test the interviewee. You ask them questions, you see how they would respond to certain situations, you attempt to gain an insight into how they think and what they are capable of. A good interviewer can learn a ton about a person in 20-30 minutes. A good interviewee can make sure that the interviewer is familiar with what the interviewee is capable of, just from having had that conversation.

QFP of never having done OCI. What you are saying is fine...but this is not what happens in screening interviews. The majority of these interviews are simple personalty assessments (i.e. "Do I want to work with this person?"). Grades/school are there to show them you're competent to do the work. Sure there are exceptions to this, but you're detached from reality if you think the average screening interviewer is going to ask probing intellectual questions.

Yea I'm a 1L, I just know that's how interviews I've had in non-law jobs have been

[glitter178]

ITT:

[c3pO4]

i just can't wait to look up the current 1L's ITT next september when they post "0/4 callbacks, what firms are still hiring" threads.

lol @ TLS only having people with jobs on it.

lol at you having a job

welcome back, alt from ban. 3 posts and already talking shit.

ya... u've just made my point. classy.

[c3pO4]

the odds are you will be fucked. if you get a job, it's because you are lucky. even then, you are probably fucked. htmfh.

It's amazing how bad of a poster you are. Even on issues where we might actually believe the same things, the way you get your point across is so stupid that I just want to disagree with you on everything.

ty ty, so you agree?

[FeelTheHeat]

How the fuck does this topic get to 9 pages jesus

[Bronte]

The misinformation in this thread is shocking. There's people in this thread who think: (1) people who just finished OCI are 3Ls, (2) most screeners result in offers because you already have your foot in the door, (3) big law firms care more about what you say in your interview than your grades, and/or (4) they're going to start a solo practice with their fellow law students after they graduate.

It's not all doom and gloom, and MTal is a known troll, but don't take this shit lightly. If you strike out at OCI, it can actually be very hard to get a job. I know people quite personally at my T10 who struck out and are still searching. This doesn't mean you should "slit your wrists." It's not the end of the world. But a $100,000-200,000 loan is massive and can have significant effects on your life if you don't have the earnings sufficient to service it.

[c3pO4]

The misinformation in this thread is shocking. There's people in this thread who think: (1) people who just finished OCI are 3Ls, (2) most screeners result in offers because you already have your foot in the door, (3) big law firms care more about what you say in your interview than your grades, and/or (4) they're going to start a solo practice with their fellow law students after they graduate.

It's not all doom and gloom, and MTal is a known troll, but don't take this shit lightly. If you strike out at OCI, it can actually be very hard to get a job. I know people quite personally at my T10 who struck out and are still searching. This doesn't mean you should "slit your wrists." It's not the end of the world. But a $100,000-200,000 loan is massive and can have significant effects on your life if you don't have the earnings sufficient to service it.

+1

[Gail]

The misinformation in this thread is shocking. There's people in this thread who think: (1) people who just finished OCI are 3Ls, (2) most screeners result in offers because you already have your foot in the door, (3) big law firms care more about what you say in your interview than your grades, and/or (4) they're going to start a solo practice with their fellow law students after they graduate.

It's not all doom and gloom, and MTal is a known troll, but don't take this shit lightly. If you strike out at OCI, it can actually be very hard to get a job. I know people quite personally at my T10 who struck out and are still searching. This doesn't mean you should "slit your wrists." It's not the end of the world. But a $100,000-200,000 loan is massive and can have significant effects on your life if you don't have the earnings sufficient to service it.

This is kind of my problem though. I don't know why those people struck out and unless they're on here to tell me, telling me that is exactly as helpful as MTal telling me to work at a grocery store.

How are you doing personally?

[Bronte]

The misinformation in this thread is shocking. There's people in this thread who think: (1) people who just finished OCI are 3Ls, (2) most screeners result in offers because you already have your foot in the door, (3) big law firms care more about what you say in your interview than your grades, and/or (4) they're going to start a solo practice with their fellow law students after they graduate.

It's not all doom and gloom, and MTal is a known troll, but don't take this shit lightly. If you strike out at OCI, it can actually be very hard to get a job. I know people quite personally at my T10 who struck out and are still searching. This doesn't mean you should "slit your wrists." It's not the end of the world. But a $100,000-200,000 loan is massive and can have significant effects on your life if you don't have the earnings sufficient to service it.

This is kind of my problem though. I don't know why those people struck out and unless they're on here to tell me, telling me that is exactly as helpful as MTal telling me to work at a grocery store.

How are you doing personally?

You don't have to take it from me. The NALP found that only 67% of the class of 2010 got JD required jobs. http://www.nalp.org/uploads/Classof2010 ... ndings.pdf. It's rough out there.

[JamMasterJ]

How the fuck does this topic get to 9 pages jesus

that's what I was wondering. Most of MTal's threads at least have a link or something usually

[c3pO4]

The misinformation in this thread is shocking. There's people in this thread who think: (1) people who just finished OCI are 3Ls, (2) most screeners result in offers because you already have your foot in the door, (3) big law firms care more about what you say in your interview than your grades, and/or (4) they're going to start a solo practice with their fellow law students after they graduate.

It's not all doom and gloom, and MTal is a known troll, but don't take this shit lightly. If you strike out at OCI, it can actually be very hard to get a job. I know people quite personally at my T10 who struck out and are still searching. This doesn't mean you should "slit your wrists." It's not the end of the world. But a $100,000-200,000 loan is massive and can have significant effects on your life if you don't have the earnings sufficient to service it.

This is kind of my problem though. I don't know why those people struck out and unless they're on here to tell me, telling me that is exactly as helpful as MTal telling me to work at a grocery store.

How are you doing personally?

There are SO MANY threads with countless people who struck out and reasons why. Do a little searching before you start spouting conclusions.

--Bidding on wrong vault firms
--Bidding in wrong region
--Bad grades
--No work experience
--Bad personality
--Poor interview skills
--Sheer bad luck
--school not good enough
--no law review
--wrong practice area
--not prepared for interview
--didn't network

The reasons go on. For every one of these there are dozens of posters lamenting and thousands of students. Wake the F up dude -- when you came to law school you signed up for a very real chance of ruining your life. Don't take it from me though. You'll figure it out soon enough.

[kwais]

the odds are you will be fucked. if you get a job, it's because you are lucky. even then, you are probably fucked. htmfh.

It's amazing how bad of a poster you are. Even on issues where we might actually believe the same things, the way you get your point across is so stupid that I just want to disagree with you on everything.

+1,000 One of the worst. At least MTal is funny

[c3pO4]

the odds are you will be fucked. if you get a job, it's because you are lucky. even then, you are probably fucked. htmfh.

It's amazing how bad of a poster you are. Even on issues where we might actually believe the same things, the way you get your point across is so stupid that I just want to disagree with you on everything.

+1,000 One of the worst. At least MTal is funny

And you sir are incredibly good at TLS. Congrats! FYI TLS isn't a skill, there are no "good" or "bad" posters. Just people you agree or disagree with and who annoy / don't annoy you. Sorry if u mad.

[Bronte]

How are you doing personally?

I wasn't going to answer this part, but as to how I'm doing, don't get me wrong: I know tons of people who got jobs at top firms. There's still a majority of people out of T10s getting big law and a significant percentage going into prestigious private interest jobs and getting their loans paid down by the law schools' loan assistance programs.

Overall, I think the top ten or fourteen schools are a good investment for a lot of people, even at sticker. But there's a material risk of encountering financial hardship. Outside of the top schools, that risk increases exponentially, to the point where lower ranked schools are a good investment for almost no one.

[kwais]

the odds are you will be fucked. if you get a job, it's because you are lucky. even then, you are probably fucked. htmfh.

It's amazing how bad of a poster you are. Even on issues where we might actually believe the same things, the way you get your point across is so stupid that I just want to disagree with you on everything.

+1,000 One of the worst. At least MTal is funny

And you sir are incredibly good at TLS. Congrats! FYI TLS isn't a skill, there are no "good" or "bad" posters. Just people you agree or disagree with and who annoy / don't annoy you. Sorry if u mad.

apology accepted

[Gail]

You don't have to take it from me. The NALP found that only 67% of the class of 2010 got JD required jobs. http://www.nalp.org/uploads/Classof2010 ... ndings.pdf. It's rough out there.

Yes. I've seen that. I'm not unfamiliar with those problems. But how are you doing?

[Bronte]

You don't have to take it from me. The NALP found that only 67% of the class of 2010 got JD required jobs. http://www.nalp.org/uploads/Classof2010 ... ndings.pdf. It's rough out there.

Yes. I've seen that. I'm not unfamiliar with those problems. But how are you doing?

I have a job at a V10. I don't know how that helps you more than knowing that I know people who struck out though. Like I said above, plenty of people got big law this year. Probably a majority of people at T10s. I think top schools are still a good investment if you don't have better options and have good reason to think you'll enjoy and excel at the practice of law.

[FeelTheHeat]

You don't have to take it from me. The NALP found that only 67% of the class of 2010 got JD required jobs. http://www.nalp.org/uploads/Classof2010 ... ndings.pdf. It's rough out there.

Yes. I've seen that. I'm not unfamiliar with those problems. But how are you doing?

Pretty sure he would have answered the first time you asked if he wanted to

[Bronte]

You don't have to take it from me. The NALP found that only 67% of the class of 2010 got JD required jobs. http://www.nalp.org/uploads/Classof2010 ... ndings.pdf. It's rough out there.

Yes. I've seen that. I'm not unfamiliar with those problems. But how are you doing?

Pretty sure he would have answered the first time you asked if he wanted to

I don't mind sharing as long as Gail understands that it's no more relevant than the fact that I know lots of people who've struck out. That's all obviously anecdotal. The point is just that both statistics and anecdote will tell you that law school is risky even at the top schools and gets prohibitively risky as you move down the rankings.

[Gail]

How are you doing personally?

I wasn't going to answer this part, but as to how I'm doing, don't get me wrong: I know tons of people who got jobs at top firms. There's still a majority of people out of T10s getting big law and a significant percentage going into prestigious private interest jobs and getting their loans paid down by the law schools' loan assistance programs.

Overall, I think the top ten or fourteen schools are a good investment for a lot of people, even at sticker. But there's a material risk of encountering financial hardship. Outside of the top schools, that risk increases exponentially, to the point where lower ranked schools are a good investment for almost no one.

Well, thank you for answering. Believe me, I know that it is rough out there. But its hard for me to visualize how badly everyone is doing when I only ever hear second hand accounts from people who are doing well, but feel lucky.

I think that I could expect the same quality of life getting shitlaw as I would getting shit-temporary agency work. Either way, I'm not looking forward to models and bottles. Years of either living in a crappy apartment with no upward mobility without any debt, or years of living in a crappy apartment with mountains of debt, but with a slightly better feeling about myself for having accomplished something.


To your caveat, yes, I do understand my chances are slim. And you, like many other TLSers, have been instrumental in my understanding of what I'm getting myself into if I go to law school.

[c3pO4]

How are you doing personally?

I wasn't going to answer this part, but as to how I'm doing, don't get me wrong: I know tons of people who got jobs at top firms. There's still a majority of people out of T10s getting big law and a significant percentage going into prestigious private interest jobs and getting their loans paid down by the law schools' loan assistance programs.

Overall, I think the top ten or fourteen schools are a good investment for a lot of people, even at sticker. But there's a material risk of encountering financial hardship. Outside of the top schools, that risk increases exponentially, to the point where lower ranked schools are a good investment for almost no one.

Well, thank you for answering. Believe me, I know that it is rough out there. But its hard for me to visualize how badly everyone is doing when I only ever hear second hand accounts from people who are doing well, but feel lucky.

I think that I could expect the same quality of life getting shitlaw as I would getting shit-temporary agency work. Either way, I'm not looking forward to models and bottles. Years of either living in a crappy apartment with no upward mobility without any debt, or years of living in a crappy apartment with mountains of debt, but with a slightly better feeling about myself for having accomplished something.

Gail, you aren't even done applying to law school. Don't you think you are putting the cart before the horse?

[Gail]

Gail, you aren't even done applying to law school. Don't you think you are putting the cart before the horse?

Yup. But what else are forums for?