Top Law Schools

My story: 30 years old, AA Male, Military Officer, 3.44 GPA (LSAT GPA), 159 LSAT, Military will pay tuition for where ever I get in up to 30K annually, I will still get paid my current salary while I attend, No preferences for location, Graduate Degree (MPA) from medium sized state school, want to apply early waited until the last minute last cycle and got into Minnesota, Hawaii, Oklahoma, Arkansas but could not leave my current duty station (operational commitments). Not retaking LSAT, hard enough to study the first time around (workload has increased dramatically).

you got 2k-2500 to blow on law school applications? Why not. I'd do it if I did

If you don't care about wasting money on application fees then go for it. But you have no chance at YHS or CCN.

Here are my thoughts:

I TROLL ON-TOPIC THREADS AND THEN GET REDACTED BY MODS

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If you are just looking for a good job, I would replace a school with SMU. I know which one I would replace, but I'm not going to say that here.

usaa wrote:My story: 30 years old, AA Male, Military Officer, 3.44 GPA (LSAT GPA), 159 LSAT, Military will pay tuition for where ever I get in up to 30K annually, I will still get paid my current salary while I attend, No preferences for location, Graduate Degree (MPA) from medium sized state school, want to apply early waited until the last minute last cycle and got into Minnesota, Hawaii, Oklahoma, Arkansas but could not leave my current duty station (operational commitments). Not retaking LSAT, hard enough to study the first time around (workload has increased dramatically).

I would consider going as low as top-50. After the top-20, ranking means very little. That having been said, don't apply to all of the so-called top-30 schools. And if you must do only top-30 schools, pick 6 or 7 out of each 10-school "batch", i.e., 7 of the top-10, 5 of #20-11 and 7 of #30-21 (for a total of 20 schools).

Too many schools is likely to dillute the quality of your applications. Besides, you don't need to do it. Chances are, if your essays are solid, you'll get into at least half - maybe 2/3 - of the schools you apply to. That should be enough.

Make your picks regionally (3 NY area schools, 3 New England/Connecticut schools, 4 D.C./MD/Philly/VA schools, 3 southern schools, 3 midwest schools, and 4 California/west/southwest schools.

If you spread it out into the top-50, adjust accordingly. I would still do only 20 apps, but if you ignore schools like Wisconsin and Arizona, you'll likely be throwing away a lot of money.

Real Madrid wrote:If you don't care about wasting money on application fees then go for it. But you have no chance at YHS or CCN.

SMH. This isn't true. While I wouldn't advise him to apply to Yale, and Stanford would be an extreme longshot, an AA male can get into the rest with his numbers. I know of a Mexican student who went to Stanford with 3.4/160. What OP needs is a good set of softs (and military experience is one of the absolute best you can have) and great essays.

His chances aren't "exceptionally strong" at those schools, but they are certainly good enough that he should take a chance and apply if he can afford to. He could make the WL at a few of those schools...and then, who knows? And he certainly has a shot at the rest of the T14 and below.

At 159, he's in the 96-97th percentile for AA test-takers. It would be great to see him score 160, but for more symbolic reasons than anything else. Only 3-4% of AA score 159+ and about .5% of AA's score above 170 - if even that many.

Your plan sounds solid OP. Many posters on here have said that AA application cycles can be very unpredictable, so definitely go for T-14. Good luck.

PDaddy wrote:

Real Madrid wrote:If you don't care about wasting money on application fees then go for it. But you have no chance at YHS or CCN.

SMH. This isn't true. While I wouldn't advise him to apply to Yale, and Stanford would be an extreme longshot, an AA male can get into the rest with his numbers. I know of a Mexican student who went to Stanford with 3.4/160. What OP needs is a good set of softs (and military experience is one of the absolute best you can have) and great essays.

His chances aren't "exceptionally strong" at those schools, but they are certainly good enough that he should take a chance and apply if he can afford to. He could make the WL at a few of those schools...and then, who knows? And he certainly has a shot at the rest of the T14 and below.

At 159, he's in the 96-97th percentile for AA test-takers. It would be great to see him score 160, but for more symbolic reasons than anything else. Only 3-4% of AA score 159+ and about .5% of AA's score above 170 - if even that many.

Maybe I shouldn't have included CCN as there is a slight chance of one of these schools biting, but Harvard is well out of reach. I just checked the last five years on LSN and there seems to be one legitimate URM with a sub-160 being accepted to HLS, and that person had a 3.7+ GPA.

I think you can expect to crack the t20, so you may just want to cut 10 apps. With your softs, I wouldn't be surprised if you landed in the bottom t14.

Real Madrid wrote:
Maybe I shouldn't have included CCN as there is a slight chance of one of these schools biting, but Harvard is well out of reach. I just checked the last five years on LSN and there seems to be one legitimate URM with a sub-160 being accepted to HLS, and that person had a 3.7+ GPA.

Yeah...but the military is really a desirable soft that can pad his GPA. We also know nothing about his major, courses or the school he attended. If he's a chemistry or engineering major, etc, from a really good state school, all bets are off. He did not mention his awards and honors. These things are game-changers for AA's, especially if he applies really early. If I were OP, I would apply (in October/November at the latest) with his current credentials and prepare to take the LSAT in December or next June. If he can raise his score to 165+, he's as good as in at any school he wants.

Real Madrid wrote:If you don't care about wasting money on application fees then go for it. But you have no chance at YHS or CCN.

not true. I know numerous people with those numbers at CC and N.

Anastasia Dee Dualla wrote:

Real Madrid wrote:If you don't care about wasting money on application fees then go for it. But you have no chance at YHS or CCN.

not true. I know numerous people with those numbers at CC and N.

Which is why I said this:

Maybe I shouldn't have included CCN as there is a slight chance of one of these schools biting

OP: Ask each law school in the Top Tier for an application fee waiver (Illinois and Washington & Lee are free). Then apply to as many law schools in the Top Tier (top 50 or so law schools) that you are interested in attending.

P.S. Congratulations on Hawaii & Minnesota admissions.

P.P.S. Law school applications were down by about 19% this year compared to last year; the number of applicants may decrease again this cycle--which is good news for you. Assuming applications remain constant or decrease a bit, then you should be admitted to a couple of Top 14 law schools in addition to many other tier one law schools.

Real Madrid wrote:

PDaddy wrote:

Real Madrid wrote:If you don't care about wasting money on application fees then go for it. But you have no chance at YHS or CCN.

SMH. This isn't true. While I wouldn't advise him to apply to Yale, and Stanford would be an extreme longshot, an AA male can get into the rest with his numbers. I know of a Mexican student who went to Stanford with 3.4/160. What OP needs is a good set of softs (and military experience is one of the absolute best you can have) and great essays.

His chances aren't "exceptionally strong" at those schools, but they are certainly good enough that he should take a chance and apply if he can afford to. He could make the WL at a few of those schools...and then, who knows? And he certainly has a shot at the rest of the T14 and below.

At 159, he's in the 96-97th percentile for AA test-takers. It would be great to see him score 160, but for more symbolic reasons than anything else. Only 3-4% of AA score 159+ and about .5% of AA's score above 170 - if even that many.

Maybe I shouldn't have included CCN as there is a slight chance of one of these schools biting, but Harvard is well out of reach. I just checked the last five years on LSN and there seems to be one legitimate URM with a sub-160 being accepted to HLS, and that person had a 3.7+ GPA.

But were any of those URMs AA men who also happened to be officers in the military?

zdamico wrote:you got 2k-2500 to blow on law school applications? Why not. I'd do it if I did

Just ask the schools for fee waivers. It only takes a few minutes, and most will do it.

kalvano wrote:

zdamico wrote:you got 2k-2500 to blow on law school applications? Why not. I'd do it if I did

Just ask the schools for fee waivers. It only takes a few minutes, and most will do it.

I don't think most will, if any will at all, because fee waivers are based on numbers, and OP's numbers are probably below both medians at the vast majority of the T30. Also, YHSB do not offer waivers.

Real Madrid wrote:

Anastasia Dee Dualla wrote:

Real Madrid wrote:If you don't care about wasting money on application fees then go for it. But you have no chance at YHS or CCN.

not true. I know numerous people with those numbers at CC and N.

Which is why I said this:

Maybe I shouldn't have included CCN as there is a slight chance of one of these schools biting

Oops. My bad. I need to do more scrolling and less typing.

Real Madrid wrote:

kalvano wrote:

zdamico wrote:you got 2k-2500 to blow on law school applications? Why not. I'd do it if I did

Just ask the schools for fee waivers. It only takes a few minutes, and most will do it.

I don't think most will, if any will at all, because fee waivers are based on numbers, and OP's numbers are probably below both medians at the vast majority of the T30. Also, YHSB do not offer waivers.

Fee waivers aren't based on numbers unless they are sent unsolicited. Schools that didn't send you one are more than happy to give you one if you ask.

I got fee waivers from all but one or two schools.

Anastasia Dee Dualla wrote:

Real Madrid wrote:

Anastasia Dee Dualla wrote:

Real Madrid wrote:If you don't care about wasting money on application fees then go for it. But you have no chance at YHS or CCN.

not true. I know numerous people with those numbers at CC and N.

Which is why I said this:

Maybe I shouldn't have included CCN as there is a slight chance of one of these schools biting

Oops. My bad. I need to do more scrolling and less typing.

No problem. My bad too.

Fee waivers aren't based on numbers unless they are sent unsolicited. Schools that didn't send you one are more than happy to give you one if you ask.

And the vast majority of them are sent unsolicited. I've already sent emails asking half the T20 for fee waivers and only GULC and UVA granted me one. All of the others replied with some version of "we use CRS to send fee waivers based on candidates who fit our admissions criteria" (i.e. LSAT, GPA).

Real Madrid wrote:And the vast majority of them are sent unsolicited. I've already sent emails asking half the T20 for fee waivers and only GULC and UVA granted me one. All of the others replied with some version of "we use CRS to send fee waivers based on candidates who fit our admissions criteria" (i.e. LSAT, GPA).

Then perhaps you weren't polite enough. They sent them to me, and my numbers weren't good enough.

Also, OP is a black male with a decent GPA and a not-embarrassing LSAT who also is a military vet. I doubt his cycle goes according to law school predictor.

kalvano wrote:

Real Madrid wrote:And the vast majority of them are sent unsolicited. I've already sent emails asking half the T20 for fee waivers and only GULC and UVA granted me one. All of the others replied with some version of "we use CRS to send fee waivers based on candidates who fit our admissions criteria" (i.e. LSAT, GPA).

Then perhaps you weren't polite enough. They sent them to me, and my numbers weren't good enough.

Also, OP is a black male with a decent GPA and a not-embarrassing LSAT who also is a military vet. I doubt his cycle goes according to law school predictor.

op will end up at a top 14 with money and waste everyone's time with 30 apps. he is being like an indecisive little girl picking 80 free samples at an ice cream parlor when she knows damn well what flavor she's taking holding up the line for everyone else. i spent the day at baskin robbins.

BeenDidThat wrote:
But were any of those URMs AA men who also happened to be officers in the military?

Have you read the other posts? OP has a good shot at pretty much any school...

And, his 3.4 is in computer science. Added to his military experience, which - as I said before - is one of the best softs you can have - he's going to get an even bigger boost from that. I say he can go to just about any school he wants.

Does computer science qualify for you for IP work?