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My final transcript just came in.
2.94

GPA in 1990-1992= 2.3
GPA in 2006-2008= 4.0

I am hoping an addendum will work.

can't hurt, that sucks bro. I too have an'upward trend' but no idea if that actually means anything to admissions

Addendum is a good idea but it won't change the fact that your GPA is 2.94, and that will limit the schools that will consider you.

Obviously, like myself, you're old. I had the same situation, and everything worked out fine. Write the addendum, and you're fine. In fact, this may turn out better than expected.

I am hoping for an LSAT above the 75% for the schools I am applying for. I am taking in October and I am improving. What I really need is MONEY, which most likely will not happen.

An upward trend only helps in the sense that it puts you above other applicants with the same numbers who were consistently at that GPA or had a downward trend.

I would like to think that my upward trend would be a little different than some 22 year old's upward trend.
I am probably wrong. I am going to be 40 when I enter. I hope that means something.

inchoate_con wrote:Obviously, like myself, you're old. I had the same situation, and everything worked out fine. Write the addendum, and you're fine. In fact, this may turn out better than expected.

I think that this is overly optimistic. An addendum will help, but prolly not all that much. I would say that you are definitely better off than a student fresh out of undergrad though.

Personally, I had a pretty strong upward trend, slightly higher GPA than you, not as significant trend though. My cycle sort of sucked. My GPA kept me out of some schools that my LSAT was strong for.

I am "some 22 year old" though.

bport hopeful wrote:but prolly not all that much.

yea...

flounder wrote:My final transcript just came in.
2.94

GPA in 1990-1992= 2.3
GPA in 2006-2008= 4.0

I am hoping an addendum will work.

You're too old to become a lawyer anyway, so don't worry.

Reasonable I hope that was an attempt at humor.

flounder wrote:Reasonable I hope that was an attempt at humor.

He speaks truths.

flounder wrote:I would like to think that my upward trend would be a little different than some 22 year old's upward trend.
I am probably wrong. I am going to be 40 when I enter. I hope that means something.

It won't. I'm older too.

I curious to know why you two think I am too old. Am I supposed to give up at 43 (the age I will be when I graduate?)

inchoate_con wrote:Obviously, like myself, you're old. I had the same situation, and everything worked out fine. Write the addendum, and you're fine. In fact, this may turn out better than expected.

A 176/3.6 is hardly the same situation :/

flounder wrote:I curious to know why you two think I am too old. Am I supposed to give up at 43 (the age I will be when I graduate?)

Because you don't have enough working time left to pay outrageous student loans back, not to mention the employment discrimination that goes on against older grads.

flounder wrote:I curious to know why you two think I am too old. Am I supposed to give up at 43 (the age I will be when I graduate?)

youre fine man. Dont sweat it.

I wonder if folks who think 40 is too old are in their mid 20's. I feel like a kid who is starting a new career. Not some old dude.

flounder wrote:I wonder if folks who think 40 is too old are in their mid 20's. I feel like a kid who is starting a new career. Not some old dude.

That is all fine and good and I commend you for your youthful exuberance. However, as someone who has engaged in law firm hiring at both a small and mid-sized firm (and is in his very late 20s), I would not want anything to do with you. I believe that I’m not the only one that would feel that way (if others were willing to be more honest). I don’t want to teach an old dog new tricks and I most certainly don’t want to deal with some older person (working under me), the believes he or she knows more because they have “been there and done that.” I may be closed minded (I already admit that), but the fact is, I doubt I’m the only one that feels that way. Compound that with the fact that it takes nearly 10 years to become competent and make it to partner and you’re already behind the 8-ball. Most of my experiences with lawyers in their 40s+, that come to the profession much later in life, have been less than positive and I just don’t see my opinion changing anytime soon.

reasonable_man wrote:

flounder wrote:I wonder if folks who think 40 is too old are in their mid 20's. I feel like a kid who is starting a new career. Not some old dude.

That is all fine and good and I commend you for your youthful exuberance. However, as someone who has engaged in law firm hiring at both a small and mid-sized firm (and is in his very late 20s), I would not want anything to do with you. I believe that I’m not the only one that would feel that way (if others were willing to be more honest). I don’t want to teach an old dog new tricks and I most certainly don’t want to deal with some older person (working under me), the believes he or she knows more because they have “been there and done that.” I may be closed minded (I already admit that), but the fact is, I doubt I’m the only one that feels that way. Compound that with the fact that it takes nearly 10 years to become competent and make it to partner and you’re already behind the 8-ball. Most of my experiences with lawyers in their 40s+, that come to the profession much later in life, have been less than positive and I just don’t see my opinion changing anytime soon.

While reasonable_man can be harsh/blunt, he's an experienced lawyer and often knows what he's talking about. I'm not saying I agree with him and you should just give up and not go, but I am saying that you should take his point seriously and decide whether you're willing to fight such an uphill battle.

vanwinkle wrote:

reasonable_man wrote:

flounder wrote:I wonder if folks who think 40 is too old are in their mid 20's. I feel like a kid who is starting a new career. Not some old dude.

That is all fine and good and I commend you for your youthful exuberance. However, as someone who has engaged in law firm hiring at both a small and mid-sized firm (and is in his very late 20s), I would not want anything to do with you. I believe that I’m not the only one that would feel that way (if others were willing to be more honest). I don’t want to teach an old dog new tricks and I most certainly don’t want to deal with some older person (working under me), the believes he or she knows more because they have “been there and done that.” I may be closed minded (I already admit that), but the fact is, I doubt I’m the only one that feels that way. Compound that with the fact that it takes nearly 10 years to become competent and make it to partner and you’re already behind the 8-ball. Most of my experiences with lawyers in their 40s+, that come to the profession much later in life, have been less than positive and I just don’t see my opinion changing anytime soon.

While reasonable_man can be harsh/blunt, he's an experienced lawyer and often knows what he's talking about. I'm not saying I agree with him and you should just give up and not go, but I am saying that you should take his point seriously and decide whether you're willing to fight such an uphill battle.

Exactly. You can take what I say with a grain of salt and no harm and certainly no hurt feelings here. However, you should, at least, be prepared for the fact that other people in hiring roles may see things the way that I do. The older students that seemed to do the best were ones that were highly successful in other fields before LS. I knew a guy who was a CFO of a publicly traded finance company. Brilliant guy. He and I became very good friends over the course of law school. He did very well because a firm that had sued him once found out that he was in LS and wanted to hire him (because he was fucking brilliant). Things worked well for him. Another example was a woman I know that worked in social work and used the JD to transition into similar public sector type work. It just made sense and was a “next step” as opposed to a “career change” for her.

The ones that didn’t fare so well were those that wanted to come out and become a traditional associate. No one wants you at 40 for that role. And frankly, being a young associate is fucking awful in a lot of ways. The hours are shit. You’re often shit on. The work comes from every direction and the learning curve is beyond steep (and you better be on the right side of it). Moreover, senior partners generally expect the new associates to be tech-savvy and will not respond well to your inability to be better at using a computer than they are (so if this is a problem for you – I’d address that fast).

Essentially, all I’m saying is that you should a) think pretty hard about what path you plan on taking; and b) realize that while you might see yourself as a young-40 with lots left to give, there might be plenty of young jerk-offs that see you as a liability. Problem is, in many institutions, those young jerk-offs, like me, are the gate keepers for which candidates make it past the first round of interviews to sit with a partner at the second round.

At what age does this shift in thinking happen? Is it the same for a 35-year-old? 33?

flounder wrote:I am hoping for an LSAT above the 75% for the schools I am applying for. I am taking in October and I am improving. What I really need is MONEY, which most likely will not happen.

It could happen. Score above their 75th on the LSAT and some will offer you money.

kalvano wrote:At what age does this shift in thinking happen? Is it the same for a 35-year-old? 33?

This is relevant to my interests.

While I see myself possibly taking a more non-traditional path by using previous experience to work law jobs related to that experience, I wouldn't mind having other options too... like clerkships.

Resonable_man,
I hear every argument you are making and I have weighed the pros and cons. I took a paralegal class as a change of career and realized, that I love studying the law and I want to be more than a paralegal. I also know when I get out of law school, I will not know shit and people 15 years younger than me will be telling me what to do. I dont want big law, I also do not want to be a partner. I have no desire to go through all that.

I finally found something in my life that I love and I am going to pursue it. I firmly believe that there is always room for one more good employee. If I work hard, network and play the game, somethign will happen. Maybe that is dreaming.