Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2011-2012 Forum

[danitt]

This may a dumb question, but just for clarification, do international students get the URM boost?

[Curious1]

This may a dumb question, but just for clarification, do international students get the URM boost?

No. In fact it's harder for international students than American students.

[AntipodeanPhil]

This may a dumb question, but just for clarification, do international students get the URM boost?

No. In fact it's harder for international students than American students.

+1

Although it seems to me that almost all internationals applying to US law schools are from what would be ORM groups in America - i.e., Asian or white.

I think LSN shows that internationals tend to underperform their LSAT scores - especially at the upper t14 (minus Columbia, of course).

[xChiTowNx]

This may a dumb question, but just for clarification, do international students get the URM boost?

No. In fact it's harder for international students than American students.

+1

Although it seems to me that almost all internationals applying to US law schools are from what would be ORM groups in America - i.e., Asian or white.

I think LSN shows that internationals tend to underperform their LSAT scores - especially at the upper t14 (minus Columbia, of course).

So going by what was said by page 3, if I have an American gpa and if my LSAT score over the at median-75% I should expect my cycle to be more like an American student's?

this would help make interpreting LSN data a lot easier for me.

[Curious1]

So going by what was said by page 3, if I have an American gpa and if my LSAT score over the at median-75% I should expect my cycle to be more like an American student's?

this would help make interpreting LSN data a lot easier for me.

Yes, if you have an American (or even Canadian) GPA then you are considered for all purposes not an international student.

This is not just speculation. Karen Buttenbaum herself specifically told me the above word for word when I asked her during a campus visit.

[xChiTowNx]

Sweet thanks! good luck to everyone this cycle!

[AntipodeanPhil]

Yes, if you have an American (or even Canadian) GPA then you are considered for all purposes not an international student.

This is not just speculation. Karen Buttenbaum herself specifically told me the above word for word when I asked her during a campus visit.

Hang on: did she only tell you what you wrote about internationals with North American GPAs, or did she also tell you what you wrote in your previous post - that things are harder for (true) internationals? If the latter, did she say anything about why?

[Curious1]

Yes, if you have an American (or even Canadian) GPA then you are considered for all purposes not an international student.

This is not just speculation. Karen Buttenbaum herself specifically told me the above word for word when I asked her during a campus visit.

Hang on: did she only tell you what you wrote about internationals with North American GPAs, or did she also tell you what you wrote in your previous post - that things are harder for (true) internationals? If the latter, did she say anything about why?

I didn't ask and she didn't volunteer any information about true internationals (with no LSAC GPA). I assumed this was the case from consensus and LSN numbers.

[dean159]

Hey all,

Thought I'd bump up the thread again.
Just found out I'm in at Michigan through checking their Admitted Students site. Does anyone else have any news?

[Palavra]

I'm confused. So the consensus is that, if you are international (i.e. from another country and non-citizen) but have an American GPA and LSAT you will be evaluated like any other applicant?

[dean159]

I'm confused. So the consensus is that, if you are international (i.e. from another country and non-citizen) but have an American GPA and LSAT you will be evaluated like any other applicant?

Pretty much, yeah. For the school's purpose your GPA will affect their rankings in the same way as an American's GPA and the GPA and LSAT are BY FAR the biggest factors that schools look at when making decisions.

[IamIn]

Hey all,

Thought I'd bump up the thread again.
Just found out I'm in at Michigan through checking their Admitted Students site. Does anyone else have any news?

Congratulations!
I haven't heard from any school yet... probably because I applied a week ago

[starfishgirl]

Hi everyone. I'm an 'average' according to LSAC. I came from a very competitive school though and I have an LLB. Will I be disadvantaged? I haven't taken the LSAT yet. Which schools should I look at? Thanks everyone!

[AntipodeanPhil]

Hi everyone. I'm an 'average' according to LSAC. I came from a very competitive school though and I have an LLB. Will I be disadvantaged? I haven't taken the LSAT yet. Which schools should I look at? Thanks everyone!

An 'average' rules out YHS + Chicago, but for the other schools, almost everything depends on your LSAT score.

Once you get a score, apply to schools with LSAT medians around your score, plus a couple of schools with LSAT medians a few points lower (safeties), plus a couple of schools with medians a few points higher (reaches).

From what I recall of previous discussions on this topic, people think that most schools don't accord much weight to the distinction between 'average' and 'above average.' If you get a very high score (170+), though, you should probably apply more broadly within the lower-to-mid top 14, since your 'average' might hurt you at a few schools there (unless by 'very competitive' you mean Oxford or Cambridge).

Also, when are you taking the LSAT? February is too late to apply this year - you would be at a serious disadvantage if you couldn't submit your applications until then, as most schools will only have a small number of spaces left.

[AntipodeanPhil]

Just found out I'm in at Michigan through checking their Admitted Students site. Does anyone else have any news?

Congratulations! I believe that's the first top 10 acceptance posted here.

I have no news, alas.

[dean159]

AAHH! Just got an email KB2 (For those who might not be familiar with TLS's endless acronyms, that's an acceptance to Harvard). I'm ridiculously excited right now. Best of luck to everyone else.

[IamIn]

AAHH! Just got an email KB2 (For those who might not be familiar with TLS's endless acronyms, that's an acceptance to Harvard). I'm ridiculously excited right now. Best of luck to everyone else.

wow congratulations!!!

[BKB]

AAHH! Just got an email KB2 (For those who might not be familiar with TLS's endless acronyms, that's an acceptance to Harvard). I'm ridiculously excited right now. Best of luck to everyone else.

Cooooooooooooongratulations!
Seems that 179 can make much difference..

[AntipodeanPhil]

AAHH! Just got an email KB2 (For those who might not be familiar with TLS's endless acronyms, that's an acceptance to Harvard). I'm ridiculously excited right now. Best of luck to everyone else.

Congratulations!

I was recently admitted to Michigan and Vanderbilt, but I missed out on Harvard (KB1, no KB2). I'm hoping they'll let me in later in the cycle, especially if application numbers are down as far as predicted.

How set are you on Harvard now? Would you seriously consider not going there?

[tonton]

Didn't realize how difficult it was for internationals. Taking the LSAT next week, and I haven't scored higher than 175 in PTs, have a high 2:1, so i'm guessing I'll be above average. Really want to get into a T6 (NYU included) with $$$, but my late app and above average classification makes that unlikely drawing from what I've read here. I have the option of doing an MPhil at Cambridge (funding pending) and then applying in the next cycle. Straight out of undergrad, so no strong work experience. Any tips? Phil?

[dean159]

AAHH! Just got an email KB2 (For those who might not be familiar with TLS's endless acronyms, that's an acceptance to Harvard). I'm ridiculously excited right now. Best of luck to everyone else.

Congratulations!

I was recently admitted to Michigan and Vanderbilt, but I missed out on Harvard (KB1, no KB2). I'm hoping they'll let me in later in the cycle, especially if application numbers are down as far as predicted.

How set are you on Harvard now? Would you seriously consider not going there?

Thanks. I'm pretty sure that there are usually quite a few people who get let in later in the cycle so I'd definitely still be hopeful.

At this point probably the only things that might be able to sway me away from Harvard would be the unlikely scenarios of a Yale acceptance or maybe a full scholly in the T6, but even then Harvard would still be really tempting.

[fingerscrossedxx]

Popping in to say I've just officially recieved my first top 20 acceptance! In at vanderbilt Intl two day mail too, they mailed it Monday and I got it this morning

[AntipodeanPhil]

Didn't realize how difficult it was for internationals. Taking the LSAT next week, and I haven't scored higher than 175 in PTs, have a high 2:1, so i'm guessing I'll be above average. Really want to get into a T6 (NYU included) with $$$, but my late app and above average classification makes that unlikely drawing from what I've read here. I have the option of doing an MPhil at Cambridge (funding pending) and then applying in the next cycle. Straight out of undergrad, so no strong work experience. Any tips? Phil?

Columbia and NYU are definitely open to you with the right LSAT score - even with an 'above average.' If possible, I would apply this cycle, and, if things don't go well, start the MPhil and apply again at the beginning of the next cycle. Having lived and worked at US universities for quite a few years now, I've seen that they have a very strong respect for Oxbridge, so I'm sure the MPhil would help - especially if you don't already have Oxbridge on your CV.

I have a US friend who recently got in to NYU with a 25th percentile LSAT and slightly below 25th percentile GPA. He is convinced that he got in because he has a PhD and a PS that convincingly discusses his interest in public interest law - which apparently NYU likes. So, an MPhil and a PS focused on public interest law would put you in a very good position, imo.

If you will allow me a side rant: I can't work out why so many people are in love with NYU. Yes, it's right in the heart on NYC, but there is no real campus and it would be a very difficult place to live. I would much rather live in Morningside Heights, attend a university with a real campus, and just catch the subway to midtown/downtown a few times a week.

fingerscrossedxx: congratulations! But every acceptance package is going to be a dissapointment after Vandy's black box. I was on campus recently for my interview - it's a lovely place.

[tonton]

I would much rather live in Morningside Heights, attend a university with a real campus, and just catch the subway to midtown/downtown a few times a week.

Thanks so much the reply! I think I will apply this cycle, see how things fall and then weigh my options (hopefully I have options!). And I'm with you, I have absolutely nothing against Morningside Heights, Columbia is great school! thanks again

[bk641]

If you will allow me a side rant: I can't work out why so many people are in love with NYU. Yes, it's right in the heart on NYC, but there is no real campus and it would be a very difficult place to live. I would much rather live in Morningside Heights, attend a university with a real campus, and just catch the subway to midtown/downtown a few times a week.

TITCR.

phil, in the very unlikely event that harvard doesn't give you another call, and stanford and yale don't take you, i sincerely hope i can see you at columbia. well, an acceptance to cls would make me very happy, anyway.