Top Law Schools

I have my heart set on attending a school in the T-14 (with the exception of Georgetown and Texas). It's not because I'm setting out to be snobby, I just don't want to risk ending up around the median anywhere else.

With August arriving I am trying to start my initial push to complete law schools apps. My LSAT (168) is low enough that it makes none of the T-14 a lock. For an applicant like me, who has adopted a real T-14 or bust mentality, would ED be the wise choice here? I really like UVA... Is it really true that their turnaround time from submission of app to decision is only 2 weeks?

Can't give good advice without a GPA coupled with that LSAT score. If you have a crazy high GPA (3.9 and above), then you could land in the lower T10 range. But depending on your GPA it may be wise to retake in October.

yngblkgifted wrote:Can't give good advice without a GPA coupled with that LSAT score. If you have a crazy high GPA (3.9 and above), then you could land in the lower T10 range. But depending on your GPA it may be wise to retake in October.

I have a 4.1 from an Ivy UG just below HYP. I really really don't want to retake.

elgrancombo wrote:I really like UVA... Is it really true that their turnaround time from submission of app to decision is only 2 weeks?

For ED? I believe so. For some people it's even quicker. Check out the thread for last year if you're that interested. Note, also, that the word on the street has been that those who apply ED to UVA don't seem to get a noticeable decrease in scholarsihp consideration if that's your issue. But don't just take my word for it - check out those threads. I honestly can't remember too much about all of it.

elgrancombo wrote:

yngblkgifted wrote:Can't give good advice without a GPA coupled with that LSAT score. If you have a crazy high GPA (3.9 and above), then you could land in the lower T10 range. But depending on your GPA it may be wise to retake in October.

I have a 4.1 from an Ivy UG just below HYP.

Great GPA! You should definitely get a in some T14s, but nothing is a lock. I wouldn't ED is I were you. I would just apply very early if your goal is to get into a T14. Is retaking not an option? I think a 170 plus, as you probably already know, would change a lot.

elgrancombo wrote:

yngblkgifted wrote:Can't give good advice without a GPA coupled with that LSAT score. If you have a crazy high GPA (3.9 and above), then you could land in the lower T10 range. But depending on your GPA it may be wise to retake in October.

I have a 4.1 from an Ivy UG just below HYP. I really really don't want to retake.

I understand the feeling. However, the benefits on your future career may be substantial. Not to mention that it could alleviate some financial burdens for you as well if you get money at these schools. I'm not saying you should absolutely retake, but just consider how it may affect the rest of your life. Regardless, you will get into a top school and best of luck with your cycle!

yngblkgifted wrote:

elgrancombo wrote:

yngblkgifted wrote:Can't give good advice without a GPA coupled with that LSAT score. If you have a crazy high GPA (3.9 and above), then you could land in the lower T10 range. But depending on your GPA it may be wise to retake in October.

I have a 4.1 from an Ivy UG just below HYP.

Great GPA! You should definitely get a in some T14s, but nothing is a lock. I wouldn't ED is I were you. I would just apply very early if your goal is to get into a T14. Is retaking not an option? I think a 170 plus, as you probably already know, would change a lot.

I keep going back and forth on whether or not to retake, but I just don't see myself putting in the necessary work to put my score over the top for this coming cycle... Definitely don't feel like I'd make much headway in the time leading up to October, and I think taking the LSAT in December and applying to schools so late isn't really smart. My PT high was a 172 (got that only once), so I don't really think my ceiling is that high.

elgrancombo wrote:

yngblkgifted wrote:

elgrancombo wrote:

yngblkgifted wrote:Can't give good advice without a GPA coupled with that LSAT score. If you have a crazy high GPA (3.9 and above), then you could land in the lower T10 range. But depending on your GPA it may be wise to retake in October.

I have a 4.1 from an Ivy UG just below HYP.

Great GPA! You should definitely get a in some T14s, but nothing is a lock. I wouldn't ED is I were you. I would just apply very early if your goal is to get into a T14. Is retaking not an option? I think a 170 plus, as you probably already know, would change a lot.

I keep going back and forth on whether or not to retake, but I just don't see myself putting in the necessary work to put my score over the top for this coming cycle... Definitely don't feel like I'd make much headway in the time leading up to October, and I think taking the LSAT in December and applying to schools so late isn't really smart. My PT high was a 172 (got that only once), so I don't really think my ceiling is that high.

Assuming you're not retaking, apply as early as possible to MVPB and make sure that you write a compelling why statement for each school. I think you should be able to get in without an ED, but I many be wrong. Others feel free to chime in if I'm off here.

yngblkgifted wrote:

elgrancombo wrote:

yngblkgifted wrote:Can't give good advice without a GPA coupled with that LSAT score. If you have a crazy high GPA (3.9 and above), then you could land in the lower T10 range. But depending on your GPA it may be wise to retake in October.

I have a 4.1 from an Ivy UG just below HYP.

Great GPA! You should definitely get a in some T14s, but nothing is a lock. I wouldn't ED is I were you. I would just apply very early if your goal is to get into a T14. Is retaking not an option? I think a 170 plus, as you probably already know, would change a lot.

Cornell is a stone-cold lock. Georgetown is too if you apply early, but you don't want Georgetown. If you're interested in New York, an ED to NYU probably has a good chance of getting you in (check LSN for more specific info). Also, an ED to UVA would put you in easily.

ETA: I think if you want to ED, you might consider doing it to your favorite of CCN. In fact, I think a couple of people have gotten off the WL with similar or worse LSATs and high GPAs at HLS this year, but I wouldn't hold my breath. You will get a few T14s for sure even without ED unless your application is a hot mess.

Real Madrid wrote:

yngblkgifted wrote:

elgrancombo wrote:

yngblkgifted wrote:Can't give good advice without a GPA coupled with that LSAT score. If you have a crazy high GPA (3.9 and above), then you could land in the lower T10 range. But depending on your GPA it may be wise to retake in October.

I have a 4.1 from an Ivy UG just below HYP.

Great GPA! You should definitely get a in some T14s, but nothing is a lock. I wouldn't ED is I were you. I would just apply very early if your goal is to get into a T14. Is retaking not an option? I think a 170 plus, as you probably already know, would change a lot.

Cornell is a stone-cold lock. Georgetown is too if you apply early, but you don't want Georgetown. If you're interested in New York, an ED to NYU probably has a good chance of getting you in (check LSN for more specific info). Also, an ED to UVA would put you in easily.

I like NYU a lot, and I live with my family in the Bronx so I wouldn't have to contend with crazy living expenses... I just thought applying ED to a school whose median is a full 4 points above my LSAT would be a waste of ED. I basically want to utilize ED as a tool for overachieving and getting a T-10, not gambling on a school whose medians dwarf my numbers.

I would go to Cornell, but having visited that region of upstate New York plenty of times in the past and experiencing the worst type of winter weather, I don't think I'd choose it over UVA.

I wouldn't ED to any of the T14 if I were you. If all you care about is getting accepted to at least one of them you should be fine with those numbers. On the other hand if you care about other variables, e.g., getting into the highest ranked out of your potential choices, care about region/location, etc. and/or $ is not as much of a consideration it might be a different story. Also from what I've gathered, some schools seem to give more weight to ED than others (at least it appears that way on TLS stats, LSN, etc.) but I could be wrong on this.

You will definitely get some of them. Somebody this cycle got off the waitlist with 75k with a lower GPA (3.9) and lower LSAT. I would not ED except to maybe CCN.

NYU's numbers don't dwarf yours. Sure, your LSAT is a point below their 25th percentile, but your GPA is WAY above their 75th. I can't remember for sure, but I believe there were 2 people with 168s on LSN and 4.0+ GPAs and one was admitted and the other waitlisted. In fact, I have a friend that scored a 168 and had a 4.0 from our large, public SEC school and he was waitlisted/admitted at NYU with no ED.

All in all, it might be a slight stretch simply because NYU is an LSAT whore, but it's by no means impossible, and I'd say your chances are actually quite good if you apply early.

Is ED ever beneficial? Yes.

Is ED beneficial for you (168/4.1 from Ivy)? NO.

OP - I would absolutely not ED anywhere if I were you. You're going to have great options without it.

No need to ED if you are ok with the lower T14. If you want CCN, ED would help.

A 4.1/168 should definitely be in at Cornell/Georgetown and I know of plenty of people with similar and slightly worse numbers who got into Duke, UVA, Penn, Northwestern, Michigan, Berkeley, and UChicago. I don't think you should ED; apply to the entire T14 and you should have some good choices to make.

Yeah, I'd only ED to CCN, due to the low LSAT score. Otherwise, see what you get. Reverse splitters have lots of fun with the application process, from what I understand.

I agree with the "ED to CCN" advice. You're not likely to get in there RD; yes, it does happen, but rarely. You may get waitlisted, and even if you do get in, you probably won't get offered $$. Given that, you'd have nothing to really lose and everything to gain by EDing to one of those schools, if you're sure you'd be happy attending one at sticker price.

Good luck.

elgrancombo wrote:

yngblkgifted wrote:Can't give good advice without a GPA coupled with that LSAT score. If you have a crazy high GPA (3.9 and above), then you could land in the lower T10 range. But depending on your GPA it may be wise to retake in October.

I have a 4.1 from an Ivy UG just below HYP. I really really don't want to retake.

Is it worth $100,000+ to you not to retake? Increase your score a few points and you could be looking at full rides at several T-14 schools.

I wouldn't even ED to CCN. I think OP has a chance at both NYU and UChicago RD, and I don't think it's worth it to ED since you'll lose any negotiation room.

Either way, Emma has the right advice.

Dany wrote:I wouldn't even ED to CCN. I think OP has a chance at both NYU and UChicago RD, and I don't think it's worth it to ED since you'll lose any negotiation room.

Negotiation room? I do agree that OP has a chance at those schools RD, but even if they got in, it's extremely unlikely they'd get in with substantial $$$. EDing might be worth it for 1) increased odds of admission and 2) peace of mind.

Well I didn't mean negotiation with CCN, just in general. And if OP wants peace of mind they should retake and go up a few points and feel good knowing they have a chance at getting in everywhere and substantial scholarships at many schools.

I wouldn't ED Columbia, I think LSAT is too low even with ED.

ED NYU if you want to work in NYC / want a big class / are a hipster. Otherwise ED Chicago.

Emma. wrote:

elgrancombo wrote:

yngblkgifted wrote:Can't give good advice without a GPA coupled with that LSAT score. If you have a crazy high GPA (3.9 and above), then you could land in the lower T10 range. But depending on your GPA it may be wise to retake in October.

I have a 4.1 from an Ivy UG just below HYP. I really really don't want to retake.

Is it worth $100,000+ to you not to retake? Increase your score a few points and you could be looking at full rides at several T-14 schools.

I would retake, I just don't think I have a higher score in me. I did not half-ass my prep work for the LSAT. I really pushed myself, every single night... Didn't have a social life at all for a few months... Just worked and did LSAT prep (lunch break, all night). My PT average was a 168. The fact that I didn't go down from that on the real thing is almost a small victory in and of itself I think. In the tiny TLS universe I think people take for granted that 173 or 174 is attainable. I know I'd have a shot a HYS with 6 more LSAT points, I just don't think it's feasible.

duckmoney wrote:I wouldn't ED Columbia, I think LSAT is too low even with ED.

ED NYU if you want to work in NYC / want a big class / are a hipster. Otherwise ED Chicago.

I know Columbia is basically not an option... they seem extremely LSAT-heavy in their admissions. I like NYU because I'd be able to commute from home, but if Chicago is the least focused out of CCN on high-end LSATs (still an uphill battle for me, I know) maybe I should use my binding ED on them instead of NYU? All of this is important strategically--I don't want to be that foolhardy guy who sits back thinking he'll get a T-14 just to get closed out.