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167 on the June LSAT, 3.39 GPA right now

I was hoping for 170+ and to ED to UVA or have a chance at Cornell/Vanderbilt, but that isn't happening with my current numbers. I was also planning on applying to UNC (in-state) and Wake Forest, as I feel like I have a fairly good chance at $ at Wake and in-state tuition from UNC. Out of state I'm looking at UGA, Alabama, Emory, William and Mary, and maybe a few others.

But I'm trying to get rid of my bias towards schools I'm familiar with, and looking at some some other places (specifically, ones that are splitter friendly) since my goal is to work in Big Law. For example, WUSTL, George Washington (don't know about how it is for splitters, hadn't really thought of applying there), Indiana, etc. I know I shouldn't apply to any of these places counting on Big Law, so 1. what are my chances, 2. are they worth sticker, given I probably won't end up in Big Law (I have a feeling this is a no ), and 3. are there any other splitter friendly schools like WUSTL I should consider? I'm also debating retaking, but I don't know how that factors in yet. I've looked at LSN/LSP/Law School Transparency at a lot of these places, but there's only so much statistics can tell you.

Don't know if I should just go with what's easiest (relatively) and go somewhere in-state for less, reevaluate my options now, or retake the LSAT entirely.

What's everyone's opinion on my options? (Including retaking- 167 was right at my PT average but I feel like there are some things I could have done on the real test that could have gotten me a 170).

If your goals include employment, retake the LSAT.

thesealocust wrote:If your goals include employment, retake the LSAT.

If you only took the LSAT once, I'd say take it again.
I mean, 167? Take a different approach. You obviously have what it takes for 170+, you just need to identify what you are doing wrong and how to fix it. Easier said than done, but still can be done.

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Apply Sept. 1 with your current numbers and you'll be in at WUSTL and Illinois, likely with a little bit of money.

blurbz wrote:Apply Sept. 1 with your current numbers and you'll be in at WUSTL and Illinois, likely with a little bit of money.

False. He is out at WUSTL and WL at UIUC w those numbers. Absent a retake, UNC w instate (plus possibly $) or Wake w $$$ are probably your best bets (assuming, of course, that you are willing to work in NC). Law schools are very regional, and from your school list, it seems like you want to stay in the southeast. The schools that you mentioned are the majority of the most attractive options for the area. Just because schools like IU-B (and even WUSTL, GW and IUIC) are ranked higher, does not mean that they are better options for the SE than the schools that you mentioned.

I say retake in October; if you get a 168/169; add Vandy/Cornell to your list. If you break 170, add Duke and UVA(possibly ED if you are willing to pay sticker price there over other schools with $$). If you do not retake or do not improve, then the above options are best.

Yeah, I'd retake dude, but I'm one of those T14+ or nothing people.

thesealocust wrote:If your goals include employment, retake the LSAT.

Ok?

senorhosh wrote:

thesealocust wrote:If your goals include employment, retake the LSAT.

If you only took the LSAT once, I'd say take it again.
I mean, 167? Take a different approach. You obviously have what it takes for 170+, you just need to identify what you are doing wrong and how to fix it. Easier said than done, but still can be done.

True, I really feel there are certain things I could have done on the test itself and to prepare for it better mentally. Didn't study enough for RC because I was getting -0/1's on all the older PTs, wasn't as well prepared as I could have been for the mental drain for the extra experimental section, etc.

Unfortunately I've taken probably 30+ PTs though (and written on them). What should I use for study prep?

PDL wrote:FYI my 168, 3.44 got me $$ at UNC (on top of in-state tuition), $$$ at Wake, $$ at UGa, $$$ at Emory, and WL at William and Mary.

That's encouraging, as I've heard UNC is pretty tough to get any money at (well, obviously, since they are public), although your numbers are better than mine. How much exactly did you end up with at each school?



Anyway, I suppose I'll apply to WUSTL/Illinois regardless, although overall after this thread I'm leaning more towards retaking, depending on how my studying goes. I don't have any problem working in NC assuming I couldn't (probably won't) get Big Law. I'm almost nervous I'll have trouble of getting back into groove of studying, even though I've only taken less than 2 months off.

Minnesota & Georgia look promising.

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westinghouse60 wrote:

thesealocust wrote:If your goals include employment, retake the LSAT.

Ok?

well that's a slam dunk son what's the question

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I've got similar numbers, 168 3.39/3.4 or so.

MN loves LSATs at or above their median, which is 167. You should be good for a scholarship there, but the biglaw market is supposedly pretty weak in the twin cities.. MN only places about 11-13% in Biglaw according to the NLJ figures.

I'm applying to BU and BC as well, though cash is going to be unlikely. If you're interested in Biglaw, both those schools have strong placement- 30% ITE.

Indiana will throw you some money, while UIUC and WUSTL will probably not offer you much.

If you only took the LSAT once you should retake, unless you feel the 167 was an upward fluke and that your chances of raising it are really poor. Otherwise, roll the dice and see what happens. You'll always have that 167 in your pocket.

Nice avatar. Live up to it and don't listen to this herd. Those scores are ubermensch for most and are clearly more than respectable and plenty to get you into great schools, even many in the top 14. Listen to the multiple reputable sources out there that can help your predictions as opposed to morons here that love the line "170 or go work at Burger King." That GPA could be better, but you'll do fine at WUSTL or UIUC, I guarantee it. Let me know when you get your scholies to either so that I can laugh at the posters trying to bring you down.

zarathustra25 wrote:Nice avatar. Live up to it and don't listen to this herd. Those scores are ubermensch for most and are clearly more than respectable and plenty to get you into great schools, even many in the top 14. Listen to the multiple reputable sources out there that can help your predictions as opposed to morons here that love the line "170 or go work at Burger King." That GPA could be better, but you'll do fine at WUSTL or UIUC, I guarantee it. Let me know when you get your scholies to either so that I can laugh at the posters trying to bring you down.

Really dude? Re-taking is easy and the best way to avoid debt on the back end. Maybe you can learn something here.

zarathustra25 wrote:Nice avatar. Live up to it and don't listen to this herd. Those scores are ubermensch for most and are clearly more than respectable and plenty to get you into great schools, even many in the top 14. Listen to the multiple reputable sources out there that can help your predictions as opposed to morons here that love the line "170 or go work at Burger King." That GPA could be better, but you'll do fine at WUSTL or UIUC, I guarantee it. Let me know when you get your scholies to either so that I can laugh at the posters trying to bring you down.

Hey how did Nietzsche end up? Oh, right.

Look I agree in spirit (a possible Hegel reference?) that people around here can be pretty alarmist, but unless WH has some reason we're not aware of, he should absolutely retake.

Tiago Splitter wrote:

zarathustra25 wrote:Nice avatar. Live up to it and don't listen to this herd. Those scores are ubermensch for most and are clearly more than respectable and plenty to get you into great schools, even many in the top 14. Listen to the multiple reputable sources out there that can help your predictions as opposed to morons here that love the line "170 or go work at Burger King." That GPA could be better, but you'll do fine at WUSTL or UIUC, I guarantee it. Let me know when you get your scholies to either so that I can laugh at the posters trying to bring you down.

Really dude? Re-taking is easy and the best way to avoid debt on the back end. Maybe you can learn something here.

+1

And "many of the T14"??? Really? The bottom of the T14 maybe, and with that GPA unlikely to be more than 3 of them. Maybe with ED OP could go higher.

Listen to me OP- I really, really wish sometimes I had done a retake. Either I would've increased my schollys, or maybe even been worth applying to the bottom of the T14. Northwestern, for instance.

Now, for a variety of reasons I am very, very happy with my school choice. But I am going to spend the rest of my life wondering "what if" and frankly, I think I should've retaken just to see.

Your choice though. 167 ain't the end of the world, fur shur.

Nietzsche was a brilliant mind that happened to (most likely theory) contract syphilis in the military. And...good Hegel reference. As far as retakes, I don't disagree with this advice. The vast majority of re-takers do better the second time around. I am just trying to re-assure the OP that if, for whatever reason, he chooses not to re-take, he is still in a very good boat, especially at schools like UIUC. With that GPA...some schools are looking questionable, but it's not going to be a deal breaker at many. At least I hope not, everyone screws up a little in undergrad.

And MinnBills: You may not believe this and I am sure I will get shit for this from many people, but even with your GPA I will (not even kidding) bet you money that you get scholies at BU. I wouldn't at all doubt 30k, which seems the going rate for the reverse-splitters, I wouldn't doubt you pull some with your LSAT. Definitely worth a shot.

zarathustra25 wrote:Those scores are ubermensch for most and are clearly more than respectable and plenty to get you into great schools, even many in the top 14..

Wait, is OP a urm?

OP getting into "many schools in the Top 14" with his current stats (sans urm boost etc) is probably the one miracle the evangelical faith has failed to recognize. Remember to puff when you pass.

Of course all this is irrelevant if OP is urm but I imagine he would have said so, if he was. I stand corrected though.

Blessedassurance wrote:

zarathustra25 wrote:Those scores are ubermensch for most and are clearly more than respectable and plenty to get you into great schools, even many in the top 14..

Wait, is OP a urm?

OP getting into "many schools in the Top 14" with his current stats (sans urm boost etc) is probably the one miracle the evangelical faith has failed to recognize. Remember to puff when you pass.

Of course all this is irrelevant if OP is urm but I imagine he would have said so, if he was. I stand corrected though.

Yeah OP, unless you are black, Hispanic, or Native American (that is what "URM" means), you will definitely have to settle for less than the T14.
(Conditional: If you are black, Hispanic, or NA you will not have to settle for less than the T14.
Contrapositive: If you will have to settle for less than the T14, you are not black, Hispanic, or NA. )...sorry, couldn't resist....

Anyway, if you are white or asian or Indian, though, you still have a good shot at other schools like UNC (though not assured by any means). Can you try and get your LSAT score higher in October? Why don't you retake?

PS: Sorry for this post being a clusterfuck I'm sleepy.

Talk about puffing and passing...I want to know what the fuck kind of depressing green people on this board are smoking. It seems you all believe that the only way to get ANY T14 is to get a 170+ and 3.5+. Simply not true, and totally depressing position to take. I hope the OP does not listen to all of you. I will re-state this: OP, please let me know (preferably on LSN) how your cycle goes so that I can laugh my ass off at all of these depressing posters.

zarathustra25 wrote:Talk about puffing and passing...I want to know what the fuck kind of depressing green people on this board are smoking. It seems you all believe that the only way to get ANY T14 is to get a 170+ and 3.5+. Simply not true, and totally depressing position to take. I hope the OP does not listen to all of you. I will re-state this: OP, please let me know (preferably on LSN) how your cycle goes so that I can laugh my ass off at all of these depressing posters.

Of course OP should reach for the stars but proffering false hope is not the answer to pessimism. Those are two extremes. Stating that OP could possibly get into a T14 is different from stating that he could get into plenty of T14's with his numbers. Nevertheless, he/she should apply to wherever he/she wants to go, there are always people that over-perform/under-perform their numbers each cycle.

Someone's going to end up in the top 10% in his/her class but the credited response is always going to advise people not to enter LS expecting to end up in the top 10%. It's not pessimistic, it's simply rational.

zarathustra25 wrote:Talk about puffing and passing...I want to know what the fuck kind of depressing green people on this board are smoking. It seems you all believe that the only way to get ANY T14 is to get a 170+ and 3.5+. Simply not true, and totally depressing position to take. I hope the OP does not listen to all of you. I will re-state this: OP, please let me know (preferably on LSN) how your cycle goes so that I can laugh my ass off at all of these depressing posters.

Now you're the one who's been hitting that fake-ass synthetic designer weed here buddy. Everyone else here has been passing around the bag after vaping this mean strain of dank called "Skywalker" while you're sitting here huffing paint in your dad's garage trying to pass off this garbage.

You need at least one of the above: 170, 3.5, or URM. Getting in T14 without one of those happens so few times in a given cycle I'm sure I could count it on my hands. There are exceptions to the rule but then, there is the rule.

With a 3.39 GPA, and not a URM, OP needs 170+. To tell him that he can get into T14 without 170+ is a bald-faced lie. You're just some poser smoking ditch weed in his gramma's attic and everyone here knows it.

robotclubmember wrote:Now you're the one who's been hitting that fake-ass synthetic designer weed here buddy. Everyone else here has been passing around the bag after vaping this mean strain of dank called "Skywalker" while you're sitting here huffing paint in your dad's garage trying to pass off this garbage.

Okay, I need to make sure I have access to you after I become a lawyer. Because the ability to drop stuff like this on people... is hard to come by. Especially from former big 4 accountants.

Lol, yessir