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I have this problem where I know I could get my gpa to go up with easy 4.0 classes like geology or intro to music.

However, our pre-law adviser at my university (University of Washington) is saying that upper-division (300-400 level classes) are a better choice even if you don't do as well because it shows the rigor of your course work.


How true is this?

When is it beneficial to take an upper-division over an easy 4.0.

Specifically like what GPA in the upper division because if I get a 3.0 in an upper division I don't know if that is equivalent to a 4.0 in a lower division.

That person should be fired. GET THE 4.0!

lol pre-law advisor.

I assume that in order for you to graduate with your major, you have to take upper division classes for that major. All classes outside of your major...so long as its not like a whole slate of underwater basket weaving...dont matter, all they care about is a 4.0. USNWR doesnt care what the GPA is in, just that there is a number.

A 4.0 in intro to music beats a 3.0 in nuclear astrophysics every time.

What about like a 3.5 in a 400 level econ class vs. a 4.0 in a 100 level music class?

justnicholas wrote:What about like a 3.5 in a 400 level econ class vs. a 4.0 in a 100 level music class?

4.0 GPA.

You're two numbers When You Apply to Law School - UGPA and LSAT. Maximize then however you can. Underwater basketweaving counts.

justnicholas wrote:What about like a 3.5 in a 400 level econ class vs. a 4.0 in a 100 level music class?

This isn't to say you should abandon all of your academic interests for the sake of a few hundredths of a GPA point, but if you're strictly doing this for your admissions chances, the 4.0 is undoubtedly the way to go.

I think you should even abandon your academic interests. Take the easiest classes you possibly can while still earning a respectable degree. It is such a numbers game. I wish someone had told me that when I started UG.

Take what classes interest you.

I would think that rigorous classes could probably overcome about .05 points of GPA. Admissions officers do look at the transcript, but the most important thing is the GPA. Now, when comparing applicants of equal GPAs, then the more rigorous transcript will get the nod.

So 4.0 upper level econ > 4.0 basket weaving (about)= 3.95 econ > 3.95 basket weaving, and so on.

As a rule though, just do whatever yields the higher GPA. Unless you're confident you can make a 4.0 in the difficult econ classes, take basketweaving.

Flips88 wrote:Take what classes interest you.

ONLY if you can get a high GPA. I thought about doing a business minor, which I thought would be very interesting and useful, but I didn't because I would have had to take 5 weed out courses, and probably would have gotten B+s and A-s in all of them. I ended up with a 4.0 and I am SO happy I did.

Flips88 wrote:Take what classes interest you.

Ok when you are sitting at your first day of law school are you going to be thinking "man I'm really glad I took X class in UG even though it was hard and I got a B+" or are you going to be thinking "man I wish I would have just taken something easy instead of X class so I could be at a school ranked a couple spots higher."

Do whatever you can to get the highest grades. If taking an interesting/hard class helps then do it. If taking the easiest classes is the best way for you to get high grades do it.

I am saying all this assuming you have a respectable degree (not basket weaving) and we are talking about electives.

emciosn wrote:

Flips88 wrote:Take what classes interest you.

Ok when you are sitting at your first day of law school are you going to be thinking "man I'm really glad I took X class in UG even though it was hard and I got a B+" or are you going to be thinking "man I wish I would have just taken something easy instead of X class so I could be at a school ranked a couple spots higher."

Do whatever you can to get the highest grades. If taking an interesting/hard class helps then do it. If taking the easiest classes is the best way for you to get high grades do it.

I am saying all this assuming you have a respectable degree (not basket weaving) and we are talking about electives.

I even disagree about the "respectable degree." It really doesn't matter what you major in as long as you're getting a BA or BS. If you're getting another degree (Bachelor Fine Arts, for example) just make sure you have enough liberal arts courses to show you know how to write.

duckmoney wrote:

emciosn wrote:

Flips88 wrote:Take what classes interest you.

Ok when you are sitting at your first day of law school are you going to be thinking "man I'm really glad I took X class in UG even though it was hard and I got a B+" or are you going to be thinking "man I wish I would have just taken something easy instead of X class so I could be at a school ranked a couple spots higher."

Do whatever you can to get the highest grades. If taking an interesting/hard class helps then do it. If taking the easiest classes is the best way for you to get high grades do it.

I am saying all this assuming you have a respectable degree (not basket weaving) and we are talking about electives.

I even disagree about the "respectable degree." It really doesn't matter what you major in as long as you're getting a BA or BS. If you're getting another degree (Bachelor Fine Arts, for example) just make sure you have enough liberal arts courses to show you know how to write.

I tend to agree with you. I would probably take a 4.0 B.A. in basket weaving over a 3.5 in economics for purposes of getting accepted to law school.

emciosn wrote:

duckmoney wrote:

emciosn wrote:

Flips88 wrote:Take what classes interest you.

Ok when you are sitting at your first day of law school are you going to be thinking "man I'm really glad I took X class in UG even though it was hard and I got a B+" or are you going to be thinking "man I wish I would have just taken something easy instead of X class so I could be at a school ranked a couple spots higher."

Do whatever you can to get the highest grades. If taking an interesting/hard class helps then do it. If taking the easiest classes is the best way for you to get high grades do it.

I am saying all this assuming you have a respectable degree (not basket weaving) and we are talking about electives.

I even disagree about the "respectable degree." It really doesn't matter what you major in as long as you're getting a BA or BS. If you're getting another degree (Bachelor Fine Arts, for example) just make sure you have enough liberal arts courses to show you know how to write.

I tend to agree with you. I would probably take a 4.0 B.A. in basket weaving over a 3.5 in economics for purposes of getting accepted to law school.

We also have to remember not to take "basketweaving" literally, however hilariously tempting it is. Even the majors that may as well be basket weaving - criminology, art history, music performance - sound a hell of a lot better than basketweaving to an admissions committee. Maybe not quite as good as economics and certainly not physics, but a 4.0 still trumps all.

duckmoney wrote:
We also have to remember not to take "basketweaving" literally, however hilariously tempting it is. Even the majors that may as well be basket weaving - criminology, art history, music performance - sound a hell of a lot better than basketweaving to an admissions committee. Maybe not quite as good as economics and certainly not physics, but a 4.0 still trumps all.

I think that pretty much sums it up right there

some upper level courses are a lot easier than some intro courses.

bartleby wrote:some upper level courses are a lot easier than some intro courses.

There's truth to this statement.

Go ahead and go really easy on yourself in college. That way, you'll obviously be prepared for the rigor of law school.

If all you're concerned about with your education is your GPA, you're totally missing the point of getting an education in the first place. Plus, if you take easy classes your entire time at college, do you really think you'll have the intellectual horsepower or critical thinking abilities to exceed as a practicing attorney?

Good Lord. Think about what you're about to do: pay God knows how much money to a soulless university so that you can graduate with a special little mark on your transcript so that you might be able to go to a better law school. All this, as opposed to taking challenging classes, developing your intellect, discovering new ideas and perspectives, sweating and climbing the mountain of knowledge, until you reach the top, bloody and bruised, clutching within your scarred fists a diploma actually worthy of the name.

If you choose the easy way, you'll just be another fat, slimy, spineless worm. But if you choose the hard way, if you choose to challenge yourself, then you will be like a sphinx, with the mind of a man and the body of a lion.

Pre-law advisers are a joke.

They told my girlfriend that she shouldn't bother applying to law school as she'd never get in because she had two withdrawals on her community college transcript.

She had a 4.0.

NZA wrote: But if you choose the hard way, if you choose to challenge yourself, then you will be like a sphinx, with the mind of a man and the body of a lion.

Aaaaaaaaaaand the salary of a lawn worker. Plus 200k of debt.

All hail the man-lion.

duckmoney wrote:

NZA wrote: But if you choose the hard way, if you choose to challenge yourself, then you will be like a sphinx, with the mind of a man and the body of a lion.

Aaaaaaaaaaand the salary of a lawn worker. Plus 200k of debt.

All hail the man-lion.

...because clearly most colleges charge more for harder classes than easier ones.

Just so that I'm understanding the argument correctly, because it sounds a bit off to me:

The general consensus on TLS is to take "easy" classes that you do not enjoy and that do not prepare you for a job so that you can get a high GPA which, if you're lucky and manage to pull off a 3.8, still requires you to score in the 95% or more on a standardized test in order to get into a top 14 law school?

notanumber wrote:Just so that I'm understanding the argument correctly, because it sounds a bit off to me:

The general consensus on TLS is to take "easy" classes that you do not enjoy and that do not prepare you for a job so that you can get a high GPA which, if you're lucky and manage to pull off a 3.8, still requires you to score in the 95% or more on a standardized test in order to get into a top 14 law school?

The general consensus on TLS is that achievement is a better goal than excellence.

ALAS!