Top Law Schools

Hi everyone,

Howdy? Hope things are good for everyone.

I am a newbie at TLS. I was engineering major in college n thinking abt law school. I've mediocre GPA (3.55) elec eng and great LSAT (1st:absent 2nd:180). I am international student and i have heard that being international makes things a bit tricky.

I wish I could get into YHS, but it seems like the chances r super slim, am I correct?

I am very ambitious and would love to shoot for a biglaw. I took a law course in ugrad and liked it a lot and was part of mock trial. Sadly, I didn't hold any leadership position in college and mostly I was too confused about what to do with my life. I thought I would like Nuclear engineering,but later I ended up not liking it. My softs are average as I was one of those girls who partied very seldom and worked to support herself.

Also, job market is getting better gradually. But, I heard law firms r not to keen 2 hire internationals, unless they r very top of their class. I am gonna work very hard and stuff, but is it like be a topper or else go back to home country

I have a bf who is American and neither he nor I are rich. I love him, don't know if I would marry him and people say, marrying and getting green card makes employment easier..It is a cute idea, but I don't think I am that desperate to do it as my bf is not that mature and it may take years until I wanna get married. Oh yeah, i can get loans if i want to as some relative said, she will cosign and stuff.

wondering:
-what are my chances for T-10 for scholarship and admission (i love Harvard, who doesn't :p)
-what are employment prospects for internationals at T-10 who are on F-1 only (don't wanna get married for Green card, .
-finally, i wanna study corporate law,but my college adviser said, Patent law would go well w/ my boring n insipid engg. degree. I think he is kinda right coz I don't have anything to say about why corporate law in my PS except that I just wanna...but i can make something up in my personal statement about patent law being related to my ugrad major...

help me!..i am super confused..and nobody around me knows anything about law school.

P.S.: sorry for spelling, i am not usually a bad speller!

Orange.

You have pretty much no chance at HYS but you'll probably get at least one of CCN, most likely NYU because with your GPA anything over 174+ is pretty much an auto admit. (They need high LSAT applicants to fill up their huge class)

BigLaw is not as ambitious as you would think, as the worst spot you will be in will be having to be in the top 50% of your class. You'll also get a ton of money at lower T14 schools. For your career goals, prestige is largely overrated and as an international student your loan options will be crappy. I would actually just go to any T14 school that gave me the most money.

I can't really comment about Nuclear Eng. and Patent Law. Kind of a rare combination. I also don't know too much about how firms treat international students.

T10 looks for people who aren't typical.

You'll strike out on everything. Stick with engineering.

Is Stanford really out of the question? She has an interesting background for sure. And she's obviously not dumb, a 3.55 in an engineering program isn't anything to sneeze at.

ahduth wrote:Is Stanford really out of the question? She has an interesting background for sure. And she's obviously not dumb, a 3.55 in an engineering program isn't anything to sneeze at.

josephine1 wrote:Sadly, I didn't hold any leadership position in college and mostly I was too confused about what to do with my life. I thought I would like Nuclear engineering,but later I ended up not liking it. My softs are average as I was one of those girls who partied very seldom and worked to support herself.

ETC: Stanford is out

What are you planning on doing for at least an year? You're probably out at HYS. Employment prospects wise, you're probably disadvantaged just like you would be coming out with an engineering degree and looking for any job. I'd imagine being an international student fluent in a foreign language (that a firm has in need) of can help with that. Why do you want to do corporate law? If you have nothing to really say about the matter, there's probably little point in trying to bring that up. It'll be much easier to just make up why you want to do IP law and tie it in with your ugrad major to produce a decent personal statement. It's not like you have to stick with it after graduating law school.

ahduth wrote:Is Stanford really out of the question? She has an interesting background for sure. And she's obviously not dumb, a 3.55 in an engineering program isn't anything to sneeze at.

I don't think her background is special enough.

Just apply to everything in the T14 just to see what pans out. If you can market yourself better as wanting to do patent law, do it. It is not like you can't change your mind.

Also though, because it's bothering me - I'm not sure how being confused is a "typical girl" thing. I am a girl and am rarely confused about stuff

I just wanted to point out that some schools actually consider supporting yourself through UG to be a fairly valid soft - moreso than superficial club membership. Be sure to talk about the number of hours worked and such. I don't think it's enough to grab a YS acceptance, but if you have the extra money, it might be worth to throw out a hail mary app.

cinefile 17 wrote:Just apply to everything in the T14 just to see what pans out. If you can market yourself better as wanting to do patent law, do it. It is not like you can't change your mind.

Also though, because it's bothering me - I'm not sure how being confused is a "typical girl" thing. I am a girl and am rarely confused about stuff

Foreign national, nuclear engineer chick seeks top law school to fulfill her big law dreams.... you know, typical girl stuff.

josephine1 wrote: wondering:
-what are my chances for T-10 for scholarship and admission (i love Harvard, who doesn't :p)

As a splitter, it's going to be very hard to predict your chances, so take any predictions with a huge grain of salt. HY probably out, slim odds at S but they like engineers so you have somewhat of a shot, although they also favor high GPAs. The good news for you is that since you want biglaw, CCN put in large percentages of their class into biglaw. You will most likely get at least 1 out of CCN, and a sweep isn't out of the question by any means. Unfortunately, Chicago seems to let in very few international students each year, so your odds aren't too good there. I think you have a good shot at getting some money from MVP, but I think it will be important here to write strong Why X essays. I know someone with slightly worse numbers than you who was awarded the Darrow, and i'm pretty sure she wrote a very strong and enthusiastic Why Michigan. You have a good chance at money from the lower T14 as well, but it will be hard to predict since you are a splitter. Apply broadly since your cycle is going to be unpredictable: i'd blanket the T14 in your shoes, and a school or a few schools in the teens according to your regional preferences.

-what are employment prospects for internationals at T-10 who are on F-1 only (don't wanna get married for Green card

I don't think they'd be different than citizens, as long as you have proof of work eligibility.

-finally, i wanna study corporate law,but my college adviser said, Patent law would go well w/ my boring n insipid engg. degree. I think he is kinda right coz I don't have anything to say about why corporate law in my PS except that I just wanna...but i can make something up in my personal statement about patent law being related to my ugrad major...

You can practice corporate law as a patent attorney. Jobs are also a bit easier to come by, since you need an engineering or hard science background to pass the patent bar, which is necessary for certain jobs in the IP field, and most people going to law school don't come from that kind of background. (I am not particularly knowledge able this since I am not planning on doing IP, so someone else will probably explain it better)

Here is a list of the top 100 patent firms: http://www.averyindex.com/top_patent_firms.php.

Knock wrote:

josephine1 wrote: -what are employment prospects for internationals at T-10 who are on F-1 only (don't wanna get married for Green card

I don't think they'd be different than citizens, as long as you have proof of work eligibility.

F-1 is not a work eligible visa (it's a student visa)

bdubs wrote:

Knock wrote:

josephine1 wrote: -what are employment prospects for internationals at T-10 who are on F-1 only (don't wanna get married for Green card

I don't think they'd be different than citizens, as long as you have proof of work eligibility.

F-1 is not a work eligible visa (it's a student visa)

I see. Well I have no clue then.

hey I am international student on f1 visa too. Glad to see another international student shooting for top law schools and big law. We have a lot of complicated problems people with green cards wouldn't understand. My numbers might be better than yours (at least in terms of not being a splitter) but I am not as fluent in English, i suppose. We all are at disadvantage.

My major is also kinda engineering - it's a mix of math and computer science. I think mine fits better for corporate law because it deals with numbers more than it does with science but yours is definitely better for patent law. You might have a chance in S but it is pretty slim because of your gpa.. do you have any internships or papers?

I hear wustl and emory like splitters.

Yeah, but what I meant by not being splitter is that my gpa is good lol

The foreign national engineer version of Elle Woods?

But yeah your loan options will suck. I don't see a foreign national getting approved for $200K in debt unless your American bf wants to co-sign and has spectacular credit. With a 180, if that's legit, someone in the T14 will probably offer a substantial if not full scholarship. Go with the money.

I can't tell where the trolling ends (both the OP and the responses) or the awful advice begins. OP you write like a retard, and coming from me that's huge insult.

OP should apply everywhere in the T14, even YHS. Depending on where that 3.55 in Nuke Eng. is from that could be an amazing GPA. Coupled with a 180, that could be enough for an adcom to accept.

Your personal statement doesn't have to be about what type of law you want to do. Also I'm not sure how big the patent field for Nuclear patents even is. I'm guessing it's a small field, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's hard to get a job in.

robotclubmember wrote:But yeah your loan options will suck. I don't see a foreign national getting approved for $200K in debt unless your American bf wants to co-sign and has spectacular credit. With a 180, if that's legit, someone in the T14 will probably offer a substantial if not full scholarship. Go with the money.

This.

You may as well work on the assumption that you can't get loans in the US. Can you support yourself if tuition is paid for? If so, you have some chance but full scholarships are few and far between, more so for a splitter.

Can you get loans from your home country?

If not, do you have any options for getting a work permit here? How about employment as an H1B? Then you might have part time options that you can afford, or could save money and could start the process towards getting a Green Card and loan eligibility.

I think OP has a fairly solid shot at H, and enough of a chance at YS to be worth applying. H tends to care less about softs than the other two, and a 180 is pretty damn impressive. I think it's likely that the nuclear eng degree could be enough to make up for the GPA for H (~3.5 isn't out of the question at H even with a lesser LSAT). Also, it's difficult to predict how Y or S will interpret her application. As a foreign student with a nuclear engineering degree, OP certainly has a lot of the raw material to tell a very compelling story. If she's able to package herself well, I could see her getting accepted into all of HYS.

Regardless, OP should apply to basically all of the T14, as how she does is going to be almost entirely dependent on how well she "sells" herself. If she can put all of the pieces together, she could get in everywhere. Then again, judging from the above posts, that may prove very difficult for her, and if her application turns out to be somewhat of a mess there's a chance she could be locked out of the T10 entirely. That said, even with a mediocre application package, I'd expect OP most likely to get into one of the T10, if only on the strength of her numbers.

Best of luck!

Desert Fox wrote:OP you write like a retard, and coming from me that's huge insult.

OP is international. English might not be her first language.

i'm not confused.....does that mean i'm not a typical girl?

somewhatwayward wrote:i'm not confused.....does that mean i'm not a typical girl?

take this pink ribbon off my eyes

fatduck wrote:

somewhatwayward wrote:i'm not confused.....does that mean i'm not a typical girl?

take this pink ribbon off my eyes

Haven't heard that one in a while.

You have a decent shot - apply to all HYS. Make sure to work hard on your applications though, especially since your softs, as you mentioned, are not particularly strong.