Top Law Schools

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To pay off $200,000+ law school loans. Also, perceived prestige.

deltasigbn wrote:This is off topic, but why are so many TLS forum posters obsessed with biglaw?

I get that the salaries are great, but big law firm jobs sound absolutely dreadful. Enlighten me please

I'll be the first to point out that you answered your own question there.

how else will you pay off six figure debt?

also bimodal salaries so ppl dont want to make 40k

also good exit options

CanadianWolf wrote:To pay off $200,000+ law school loans.

+1

Also, TLS members are overachievers, and here in 'Merka money means success.

I enjoy pain and self-debasement. Dunno what's wrong with these other people however.

Modelos y Botellas, dude.

The people who keep saying "to pay off school debt" are fooling themselves. That's circular reasoning; one only "needs" biglaw to pay off debt if 1. They refuse to attend a school that would not require big debt (which many choose to avoid doing because they want to go to a school that can get them biglaw) and 2. Even at the schools that give one a good shot at biglaw but leave one in big debt; you can pay off the debt just as easily (perhaps more easily when one considers the huge payments that must be made to loan holders on a biglaw salary, and that biglaw is often in extraordinarily expensive COL locales with very high tax rates) by choosing to do P.I.

People do biglaw because they want the salary and the prestige--not for a "need".

BruceWayne wrote:The people who keep saying "to pay off school debt" are fooling themselves. That's circular reasoning; one only "needs" biglaw to pay off debt if 1. They refuse to attend a school that would not require big debt (which many choose to avoid doing because they want to go to a school that can get them biglaw) and 2. Even at the schools that give one a good shot at biglaw but leave one in big debt; you can pay off the debt just as easily (perhaps more easily when one considers the huge payments that must be made to loan holders on a biglaw salary, and that biglaw is often in extraordinarily expensive COL locales with very high tax rates) by choosing to do P.I.

People do biglaw because they want the salary and the prestige--not for a "need".

+1

Watch "Wallstreet". It's the same thing for biglaw -- except with lawyers.

Disagree. Many believe that the best way to secure employment in this economy is to attend a top ranked law school. Perceived prestige of law school & biglaw employment are important to many who may also believe that a scholarship at a lower ranked school will result in missing the biglaw boat &/or unemployment.

BruceWayne wrote:The people who keep saying "to pay off school debt" are fooling themselves. That's circular reasoning; one only "needs" biglaw to pay off debt if 1. They refuse to attend a school that would not require big debt (which many choose to avoid doing because they want to go to a school that can get them biglaw) and 2. Even at the schools that give one a good shot at biglaw but leave one in big debt; you can pay off the debt just as easily (perhaps more easily when one considers the huge payments that must be made to loan holders on a biglaw salary, and that biglaw is often in extraordinarily expensive COL locales with very high tax rates) by choosing to do P.I.

People do biglaw because they want the salary and the prestige--not for a "need".

+1, but remember, most law students are terrible with numbers and cannot figure this out on their own. BigLaw doesn't pay super awesome wages on an hourly basis, you just get to work more hours.

CanadianWolf wrote:Disagree. Many believe that the best way to secure employment in this economy is to attend a top ranked law school. Perceived prestige of law school & biglaw employment are important to many who may also believe that a scholarship at a lower ranked school will result in missing the biglaw boat &/or unemployment.

Think about what you just said with the bolded for a moment.

ahduth wrote:I enjoy pain and self-debasement. Dunno what's wrong with these other people however.

Technically, it should be self-abasement.


I want Biglaw because I heard that partners tend to get great discounts at Brooks Brothers. If this is a myth, I'm going to be very disappointed.

Because the drawbacks associated with biglaw are present in mid and small law (where the pay is much less). So if you are going to deal with the same problems as a big law associated, you may as well get paid in the process.

Verity wrote:

ahduth wrote:I enjoy pain and self-debasement. Dunno what's wrong with these other people however.

Technically, it should be self-abasement.


I want Biglaw because I heard that partners tend to get great discounts at Brooks Brothers. If this is a myth, I'm going to be very disappointed.

My hope was that I could stop shopping at a TTT place like brooks brothers.

Despite hewing and hawing to the contrary, biglaw can also provide an extremely challenging and intellectually stimulating job. Of course this will depend on whether a given grad finds the right firm, work group, etc., but, outside of a choice few government agencies and clerkships, no where but biglaw will really expose an inexperienced lawyer to extremely complex litigation or business deals. I know it's not everyone's thing, but I've met quite a few biglaw lawyers who found their groove and really enjoy it. On top of that, the salary, partner dreams, and lateral mobility are all obvious draws to certain extents.

Don't forget too that there are many people on this site who have worked in big law firms in some capacity and understand very well there pluses and minuses; it's not like the posters here just amount to some huge, uninformed mass of deluded 0Ls who dream as one in technicolor Wachtell fantasies. At least not all the time.

I'm into it bc of $ and lateral mobility.

I can think of 160,000 reasons.

Cavalier wrote:I can think of 160,000 reasons.

I was hoping for something closer to 190,000 reasons.

What do you think they should be interested in? The career options in THE LAW are actually pretty limited. I can count them on one hand

1) Work at big-law or other market paying firm (assuming boutiques and whatnot count for you)
2) Work at mid or small law firm at the other end of the salary distribution
3) Work in government or public interest law, also at the other end of the salary distribution
4) Hang up your own shingle and form your own private practice - starts you off at a salary of zero

2 & 3 generally pay poorly and 4 scares the hell out of anyone who already has debts to pay off.

All the reasons big law sounds miserable exist in shit law, and good PI. Long hours and stress aren't just a big law thing. It's a profession wide thing.

Also big law is like the law version of the medical residency. It opens doors. It's one of the few job types that really trains lawyers at an entry level. Most government agencies don't hire direct from law school. Even PI orgs like a couple years in big law.

It also has most of the interesting private sector work. Do people really want to go into law to have a career litigating grocery store accidents?

But really models and bottles.

Desert Fox wrote:All the reasons big law sounds miserable exist in shit law, and good PI. Long hours and stress aren't just a big law thing. It's a profession wide thing.

Also big law is like the law version of the medical residency. It opens doors. It's one of the few job types that really trains lawyers at an entry level. Most government agencies don't hire direct from law school. Even PI orgs like a couple years in big law.

It also has most of the interesting private sector work. Do people really want to go into law to have a career litigating grocery store accidents?

But really models and bottles.

except medical residency is mandatory and pays like $40k/yr if you're lucky.

Capitol A wrote:

Desert Fox wrote:All the reasons big law sounds miserable exist in shit law, and good PI. Long hours and stress aren't just a big law thing. It's a profession wide thing.

Also big law is like the law version of the medical residency. It opens doors. It's one of the few job types that really trains lawyers at an entry level. Most government agencies don't hire direct from law school. Even PI orgs like a couple years in big law.

It also has most of the interesting private sector work. Do people really want to go into law to have a career litigating grocery store accidents?

But really models and bottles.

except medical residency is mandatory and pays like $40k/yr if you're lucky.

Upside 160K, downside, not everyone gets it.

deltasigbn wrote:This is off topic, but why are so many TLS forum posters obsessed with biglaw?

I get that the salaries are great, but big law firm jobs sound absolutely dreadful. Enlighten me please

Most high profile work, most money, opportunity to be the best and work with the best.

Same reasons people are obsessed with playing for the NFL realy.


Also, at least for me, the opportunity to fight for a casue I beleive in - representing corporate America.

for me the only appeal would be the money. im a litigator and I like actually litigating cases. there is no way I could be lead counsel from consult to trial, in any case, at a larger firm. for someone like me who wants to develop into a great trial lawyer, biglaw would be useless experience.

long hours and lifestyle issues can be found in all types of firms, but no one expects to own your ass like a biglaw firm does. im a hard worker, but there are only so many 70+ hour weeks I can do consecutively. Biglaw, AFAICT, is the only type of firm that will expect that of you.