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The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:10 pm
by Veyron
I've seen many posts here about law school admits who want to get a "jump" on their competition over the fall. They have been given the advice over and over to just chill because they know that you can't possibly have the work ethic to do the prep that would actually be useful as a 0L. Yet you refuse to listen.
At that point some well meaning law student tries to trick them by suggesting that they read getting to maybe. Ahah! The law student thinks, this is something that will make them feel productive but still give them a lot of free time. However, some of you 0Ls wont shut up, you think there is some simple trick to get the jump on your competition. Then you guys start debating what other books about law school will give you the edge. After a summer of intellectual masturbation, you then arrive at school having done nothing useful.
In the vein of being careful what you wish for, here is a prep curriculum that would actually GIVE you an edge if it didn't burn you the fuck out (which it would, which is why all us -somewhat- seasoned law students recommend R and R).
To read:
GTM (yes, just because the motive was impure, doesn't mean the advice was bad)
Farnsworth on Contracts
Constitutional Law: Principles and Policies
Glannon E&E Civ-Pro
Glannon E&E Torts (although the BLL in torts is easy so this is prob a waste of time)
To do:
On all papers from now on where your professor gives you an option of what citation form to use, use the bluebook. 1Ls never have more than a day or so to study for the writing competition. Legal writing instructors don't really care if you bluebook properly if the class is PF and you won't have the time to do it anyway. Coming in with a working knowledge of how our citation system works would probably put you at a significant advantage in the writing competition.
Civ-Pro E&E practice problems
Read outlines on your schools outline bank for your first semester courses once you figure out who your prof is (if you have access, many schools don't password protect these). At least 3 for each prof should be read since all outlines contain some errors and some are incomplete/bad.
BONUS!: Obtain access to your schools exam database (how is up to you - keep it legal). Read several model answers to exams for each class before doing any prep. Your efficiency will increase by 1000%.
There, that's 3 homework assignments and 4000 pages of reading to do before you get to law school. It will give you all the BLL you need for Ks and give you the same ideas about policy that your professor has. Dito for Constitutional Law (except for the changes in the law since 2006 of which there are a few). It will also teach you much of the BLL in Civ-Pro and help you make sense of the class much more easily. It will also teach you what YOUR prof thinks is important. It may even save you some time in Torts.
I sincerely hope this helps you fools.
Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:24 pm
by lovejopd
Thank you...by the way, what is BLL?
Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:25 pm
by NikaneOkie
I've had professors agree that reading 'getting to maybe' was the only worthwhile, outside of class, reading they did for law school.
Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:26 pm
by aliarrow
Black letter law
Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:26 pm
by Veyron
lovejopd wrote:Thank you...by the way, what is BLL?
Black letter law (what the current law is). Makes up 2/3 of a "traditional" issue spotter exam. Other 1/3 is policy (i.e. what you think about the law) You have a long way to go before you are a true gunner my friend.
I've had professors agree that reading 'getting to maybe' was the only worthwhile, outside of class, reading they did for law school.
Yes, but read model answers before deciding to use the techniques there. Some (minority of) professors HATE the gtm style and just want the "right" answer. Others (also a minority) want policy integrated with the BLL in a different way than GTM recommends.
Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:28 pm
by fanmingrui
At the expense of feeling like a total douche... Tag.
Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:31 pm
by Cupidity
--ImageRemoved--
Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:32 pm
by DeeCee
Thanks Veyron for addressing this over-enthusiasm that 0Ls seem to have about LS.
As a 0L, I for one will not me doing any of this. It's ridiculous to read books you will probably be assigned, just to forget it all, remember the parts that aren't important, and then have to reread the info again. Here's to a summer of vacation/drinking/lounging on the beach and hiking mountains.
Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:32 pm
by lovejopd
Veyron wrote:lovejopd wrote:Thank you...by the way, what is BLL?
Black letter law (what the current law is). Makes up 2/3 of a "traditional" issue spotter exam. Other 1/3 is policy (i.e. what you think about the law) You have a long way to go before you are a true gunner my friend.
I've had professors agree that reading 'getting to maybe' was the only worthwhile, outside of class, reading they did for law school.
Yes, but read model answers before deciding to use the techniques there. Some (minority of) professors HATE the gtm style and just want the "right" answer. Others (also a minority) want policy integrated with the BLL in a different way than GTM recommends.
Thank you! Yes, I have a long way to go there!
Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:33 pm
by kapachino
I would venture to suggest that if these particular 0Ls have taken the LSAT, they should apply to those law school preview programs that different law schools offer in the summer. You do the work and get to see what it's like to be a 1L. That might actually give you an edge over incoming 1Ls who didn't attend a program.
Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:35 pm
by Flips88
fanmingrui wrote:At the expense of feeling like a total douche... Tag.
Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:36 pm
by Cupidity
Don't study a damn thing until mid-November. It is easier to learn things correctly once than to unlearn all the unnecessary bullshit you picked up preparing over the summer. Only invest time in supplements once you have been in class long enough to understand the scope of the syllabus and your professors specific inclinations.
Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:38 pm
by socraticmethodman
This is great, but there has to be more I can do this summer. I'm gunning for top 5%!!!!
Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:38 pm
by Veyron
Thanks Veyron for addressing this over-enthusiasm that 0Ls seem to have about LS.
As a 0L, I for one will not me doing any of this. It's ridiculous to read books you will probably be assigned, just to forget it all, remember the parts that aren't important, and then have to reread the info again. Here's to a summer of vacation/drinking/lounging on the beach and hiking mountains.
You will not be assigned any of these books as required reading. Profs HATE to assign books that give you the BLL.
I would venture to suggest that if these particular 0Ls have taken the LSAT, they should apply to those law school preview programs that different law schools offer in the summer. You do the work and get to see what it's like to be a 1L. That might actually give you an edge over incoming 1Ls who didn't attend a program.
This is a terrible idea and will not help you one bit with your grades. Now, if you got offered one of these for free through an affinity group (your UGs pre-law association for example) and the event involves interaction with actual practitioners then it could be good for networking.
Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:40 pm
by DeeCee
Veyron wrote:Thanks Veyron for addressing this over-enthusiasm that 0Ls seem to have about LS.
As a 0L, I for one will not me doing any of this. It's ridiculous to read books you will probably be assigned, just to forget it all, remember the parts that aren't important, and then have to reread the info again. Here's to a summer of vacation/drinking/lounging on the beach and hiking mountains.
You will not be assigned any of these books as required reading. Profs HATE to assign books that give you the BLL.
Oh, I didn't realize they don't present the information outright. Oh well, still not studying, I need a break and if I don't take a break over summer I'll burnout come fall.
Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:44 pm
by Veyron
DeeCee wrote:Veyron wrote:Thanks Veyron for addressing this over-enthusiasm that 0Ls seem to have about LS.
As a 0L, I for one will not me doing any of this. It's ridiculous to read books you will probably be assigned, just to forget it all, remember the parts that aren't important, and then have to reread the info again. Here's to a summer of vacation/drinking/lounging on the beach and hiking mountains.
You will not be assigned any of these books as required reading. Profs HATE to assign books that give you the BLL.
Oh, I didn't realize they don't present the information outright. Oh well, still not studying, I need a break and if I don't take a break over summer I'll burnout come fall.
Lol, you've got another think coming.
FWIW, your approach is better. Mine is just for the people who refuse to listen to reason.
Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:44 pm
by traehekat
Woaaah, don't forget LEEWS! I suggest doing both the live program AND the audio CDs.
Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:46 pm
by Veyron
traehekat wrote:Woaaah, don't forget LEEWS! I suggest doing both the live program AND the audio CDs.
Reading model answers for YOUR profs is going to help you 1000X more than LEEWS (and cost a lot less).
Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:49 pm
by DeeCee
Veyron wrote:DeeCee wrote:
Oh, I didn't realize they don't present the information outright.
Lol, you've got another think coming.
I'm sad that you would say this, but judging by the admissions process I've gone through the past year, I can't say I'm surprised. I would think grad school and law school would be similar in terms of workload.....I currently do about 8hours work 5 days a week for all of my commitments. It's a little more now that I'm writing my thesis. But I could be wrong there too.
Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:52 pm
by Veyron
DeeCee wrote:Veyron wrote:DeeCee wrote:
Oh, I didn't realize they don't present the information outright.
Lol, you've got another think coming.
I'm sad that you would say this, but judging by the admissions process I've gone through the past year, I can't say I'm surprised. I would think grad school and law school would be similar in terms of workload.....I currently do about 8hours work 5 days a week for all of my commitments. It's a little more now that I'm writing my thesis. But I could be wrong there too.
I worked 90-115 hours a week for the last 2 months of last semester. I like to go at a slow pace with my work but if you aren't at 70+ you aren't trying. The reason that I'm on TLS so often is that the only time I take a break is to post or read a newspaper online or something. If you look through my posting history you will see posts at 4-5:00 in the morning fairly often.
Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:55 pm
by DeeCee
Veyron wrote:DeeCee wrote:Veyron wrote:DeeCee wrote:
Oh, I didn't realize they don't present the information outright.
Lol, you've got another think coming.
I'm sad that you would say this, but judging by the admissions process I've gone through the past year, I can't say I'm surprised. I would think grad school and law school would be similar in terms of workload.....I currently do about 8hours work 5 days a week for all of my commitments. It's a little more now that I'm writing my thesis. But I could be wrong there too.
I worked 90-115 hours a week for the last 2 months of last semester. I like to go at a slow pace with my work but if you aren't at 70+ you aren't trying. The reason that I'm on TLS so often is that the only time I take a break is to post or read a newspaper online or something.
I was like that my first semester of grad school. Then I stopped doing half the work and got the same grades, so I was like fuck it, not doing 80 hours a week anymore! But, I'll definitely take your advice and put in several 12 hour days a week in the first semester, since I'm sure this workload will be more expected.
ETA: Saw your edit about staying up late. This is going to be problematic as I always stop doing work at 11pm.....I just can't think well much later than that
You go to Penn? How do you like it?
Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:03 pm
by Veyron
[/quote]I'm sad that you would say this, but judging by the admissions process I've gone through the past year, I can't say I'm surprised. I would think grad school and law school would be similar in terms of workload.....I currently do about 8hours work 5 days a week for all of my commitments. It's a little more now that I'm writing my thesis. But I could be wrong there too.[/quote]
I worked 90-115 hours a week for the last 2 months of last semester. I like to go at a slow pace with my work but if you aren't at 70+ you aren't trying. The reason that I'm on TLS so often is that the only time I take a break is to post or read a newspaper online or something.[/quote]
I was like that my first semester of grad school. Then I stopped doing half the work and got the same grades, so I was like fuck it, not doing 80 hours a week anymore! But, I'll definitely take your advice and put in several 12 hour days a week in the first semester, since I'm sure this workload will be more expected.
ETA: Saw your edit about staying up late. This is going to be problematic as I always stop doing work at 11pm.....I just can't think well much later than that
You go to Penn? How do you like it?[/quote]
Love Penn. I'm used to being either harder working or smarter than the vast majority of people I've worked or gone to school with. Lol, not the case here - hence the 100 hour weeks just to keep up.
You could get up early and do the work as well, its about raw hours. You WILL have to get used to 3-4 hours of sleep a night for finals month tho.
Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:08 pm
by tea_drinker
Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:14 pm
by DeSimone
What exactly do you mean by "impure motives" in the context of GTM?
Re: The Ultimate 0L gunner guide
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:17 pm
by traehekat
Veyron wrote:traehekat wrote:Woaaah, don't forget LEEWS! I suggest doing both the live program AND the audio CDs.
Reading model answers for YOUR profs is going to help you 1000X more than LEEWS (and cost a lot less).
Oh, my bad. I thought the idea was to suggest every single stupid, pointless thing out there a 0L can do during the summer in order to give yourself a false impression that you actually have a leg up on everyone else once classes start.