Seton Hall (35k per year) vs. St. John's (Full Scholarship) Forum

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[inSouthAmerica]

yankeefan, the idea that seton hall has pulled ahead of either rutgers schools (i'm assuming because usnews claims so) is laughably false. seton hall is for kids that didn't get into rutgers and have to pay a price premium to stay in new jersey. or for kids that got hooked on a big scholarship they have a high chance of losing at a school that costs too much anyway. when a school costs 100k more to go to, a 35k scholarship might look better than the 10k they'd probably have gotten at rutgers, but the actual cost is the same.

edit: op: i support going to seton hall at 35k a year over saint johns. i disagree with yankeeefan's comment, so i responded. but that is my answer to your question.

[AmericaninManchuria]

yankeefan, the idea that seton hall has pulled ahead of either rutgers schools (i'm assuming because usnews claims so) is laughably false. seton hall is for kids that didn't get into rutgers and have to pay a price premium to stay in new jersey. or for kids that got hooked on a big scholarship they have a high chance of losing at a school that costs too much anyway. when a school costs 100k more to go to, a 35k scholarship might look better than the 10k they'd probably have gotten at rutgers, but the actual cost is the same.

edit: op: i support going to seton hall at 35k a year over saint johns. i disagree with yankeeefan's comment, so i responded. but that is my answer to your question.

I don't think this is true at all. Seton Hall is ranked 23 spots higher than Rutgers (Newark) and the reason is because it has a slightly higher median LSAT and GPA for their entering 2010 class. Honestly, I think they are still very comparable. Your opportunities from going to either are pretty much the same, even though Seton Hall's bar passage is much higher. At either school, I think your fate is self-made by your grades and the connections you make. The cheaper option is probably the better option.

The cost with the scholarships mentioned is also not the same at all: My scholarship to Rutgers is only $8,000 and 35 to SHU, and if I choose Rutgers it will literally be almost DOUBLE the cost of SHU : $28,000 versus $51,000 total debt. Most scholarship recipients keep their scholarships, some lose them.

[legallyb]

I'd agree with this. If you go in with a scholarship you have to think positively and work hard so that you won't be one of the occasions where you lose your scholarship. I think both schools are similar and definitely it is about how you make your law school experience. Law school advisors have consistently told me that. It doesn't matter if you go to Harvard or Yale if you're the bottom of your class, just as it doesn't matter if you go to a lower school and are the top of your class. You make your opportunity and you control your own destiny. If you work hard, succeed in academics, are involved in other things, and make good connections you will be fine at either school.

yankeefan, the idea that seton hall has pulled ahead of either rutgers schools (i'm assuming because usnews claims so) is laughably false. seton hall is for kids that didn't get into rutgers and have to pay a price premium to stay in new jersey. or for kids that got hooked on a big scholarship they have a high chance of losing at a school that costs too much anyway. when a school costs 100k more to go to, a 35k scholarship might look better than the 10k they'd probably have gotten at rutgers, but the actual cost is the same.

edit: op: i support going to seton hall at 35k a year over saint johns. i disagree with yankeeefan's comment, so i responded. but that is my answer to your question.

I don't think this is true at all. Seton Hall is ranked 23 spots higher than Rutgers (Newark) and the reason is because it has a slightly higher median LSAT and GPA for their entering 2010 class. Honestly, I think they are still very comparable. Your opportunities from going to either are pretty much the same, even though Seton Hall's bar passage is much higher. At either school, I think your fate is self-made by your grades and the connections you make. The cheaper option is probably the better option.

The cost with the scholarships mentioned is also not the same at all: My scholarship to Rutgers is only $8,000 and 35 to SHU, and if I choose Rutgers it will literally be almost DOUBLE the cost of SHU : $28,000 versus $51,000 total debt. Most scholarship recipients keep their scholarships, some lose them.

[Younger Abstention]

Take the full ride. But seriously drop if you don't make the requirements to keep the scholly. Seriously.That's not a joke.

[WhirledWorld]

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[inSouthAmerica]

2/5 of the the judges and lawyers in new jersey are from one of the rutgers. 1/5 are from seton hall. and 1/5 are from other schools.

you are absolutely wrong that 23 spots in the rankings matters or that seton hall has pulled ahead of rutgers in anyway.
seton hall is a private school that games the rankings and cares about them. rutgers is not and does not.

there are firms in nj that hire seton hall and there are firms in nj that hire rutgers and there are firms that take one from each.

if it is cheaper to go to seton hall then go there. rutgers and seton hall are very aware of the scholarships the other ones gonna offer and usually, and this was the case for me, they make it work so that there is only a 1k or 2k difference per year in cost of attendance. since this is not the case for you, feel free to go to seton hall. don't go to st. johns on full scholarship though, if your goal is to get back to nj.

seton halls bar passage rate might be marginally higher, but keep in mind our students are financially poorer and often dont take review courses. also, if youre a scholarship student, you're probably not gonna be the one that has to worry about this.

[Whateverdude]

Its a wonder that you have a biglaw job considering your reading comprehension skills are terrible.

You said dont go to law school, and then when asked why, you said because you wouldnt go to SJU unless on a full scholarship and wouldnt go to seton hall for sticker.

Well, OP has a full ride at SJU and a 75% ride at SHU. You should be fired.

Let me clarify things for you, since you are clearly a little bit slow. I said do not go to law school in reference to the particular options that OP had presented. I later went on to explain that even with a scholarship to a place like SJU, I probably would not go due to the other miscellaneous costs associated with taking yourself out of the workforce for 3 years.

I'm going to go ahead and take a wild guess and say that you are not yet in law school. I have probably hurt your feelings by shooting straight about a school that you are interested in attending. I am sorry for that. Unfortunately, you don't really know what you are talking about. But that's cool, man. I get it. You'll go off to school at some crap institution because your mom told you that you're special and you can beat the odds, and then you'll figure it all out for yourself. All I'm trying to do is give this kid a balanced perspective.

As for me getting fired... come talk to me after you've at least made it through your first year. Then you might have enough credibility to render an actual opinion.

[Whateverdude]

I would like to respond to some of your comments.

If you try to tell me/him/anyone else that going to Seton Hall at full-price is a wise investment, then you're lying.

Did anyone ever say this? As the title itself says, I have been offered 35k per year there.

The only way I'd even consider St. John's is if I had a full ride. Seton Hall at full price is insane. I'm sorry if you feel bad about yourself when you hear the truth.

Please read the title, in which it says that I have been offered a full ride. And why exactly would I feel bad about myself?

Full disclosure: I do not go to a "top law school," and I did well enough to land a BigLaw job. I am very much in the minority.

Congrats on the job. I agree you are in the minority and you should be proud of yourself for that. What would have happened if some guy gave you advice that because you aren't going to a "top law school", you shouldn't go to law school at all? Of all people, you should be the one encouraging people that there is hope for some, despite the difficult situation out there.

Honestly, do you really believe that I am blind to how hard it is to get a job? Anyone can go searching the TLS forums for people who are in less than mediocre schools and put them down.

Additionally, why do you assume I am trying to land a Big Law job? (I am not.) Maybe I got into better schools but I do not want to take on large amounts of debt? (This is true.)

Here's the bottom line: The title of this thread is "Seton Hall (35k per year) vs. St. John's (Full Scholarship)" and NOT "Seton Hall (35k per year) vs. St. John's (Full Scholarship) vs. My decision to attend law school at all." You know as well as anyone that your "advice" was obnoxious. I have taken the LSAT more than once and put in hundreds of hours of studying. I have gone through all the same motions as everyone else in this lengthy applications process. I have followed these boards for over a year, done more than my fair share of research, and am finally about to make my decision of which law school to attend, just like many others out there. You know very well that your one-liner that I should not attend law school at all was not intended as a contribution to this thread. So why are you here?

My "one-liner" was intended as a contribution to the thread, and I did not put you down at all. I don't know you and did not make a single personal remark about you. Perhaps I should have expounded upon my advice more in the first post. If you have made your decision to attend school, that is fine. But if you put up a thread asking for advice (which is kind of lame, anyway, IMO), then you should expect people to actually render advice to you. I do not know what your dreams and aspirations are, but I know that many people don't really take seriously any view that is contrary to their own. Again, even with scholarships, you will likely be taking on debt. If you are unemployed after graduation (which is not unlikely, even if you want to do "public interest" stuff), then you're going to have a hard time paying it off. That's all I'm saying.

And I am not on here encouraging people with my story because the truth is, not very many people are going to be as fortunate. I know how hard it is for anyone to get a job now, how graduates from past years have been waiting around to snatch any jobs that do pop up. If I knew you and knew that you were going to rock it, I would encourage you. But no-one knows if they're going to rock it, and the numbers suggest that you won't. Do whatever you're going to do. But that doesn't change my earlier advice: You should at least seriously consider not attending law school if your options are Seton Hall or SJU. I don't care what the price is.

[Whateverdude]

[quote="legallyb"] It doesn't matter if you go to Harvard or Yale if you're the bottom of your class, just as it doesn't matter if you go to a lower school and are the top of your class. You make your opportunity and you control your own destiny. If you work hard, succeed in academics, are involved in other things, and make good connections you will be fine at either school.
quote]

This also is not true. There are tons of grads who are at the top of their class in schools ranked much higher than SH/SJU/Rutgers who aren't getting decent job offers. And flippantly throwing out "if you work hard, succeed in academics, are involved in other things, and make good connections you will be fine..." is ludicrous, and clearly indicates that you are not speaking from experience.

[Whateverdude]

Take the full ride. But seriously drop if you don't make the requirements to keep the scholly. Seriously.That's not a joke.

I would subscribe to this. Also, take note as to the conditions on your scholly. If there are stringent requirements for keeping it, this is likely a good indicator of what type of environment you will be able to expect there. There will be lots of others scrapping to keep their scholarships, too, and it will put a lot of stress on top of it all. Not fun.

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[firemed]

I would vote Seton Hall.

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