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The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:37 pm
by lovejopd
It drops to 30...can you give me any reasonable(?) explanations?
Is it because Atlanta legal market is crushed somewhat or Emory's bizarre application process this year?
It seems that all law schools in GA are somewhat going down in terms of ranking. Will the trend continue over time?
Re: The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:04 pm
by FiveSermon
The fact that almost 40% of their grads can't find jobs is a bit disturbing.
Re: The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:10 pm
by MrPapagiorgio
FiveSermon wrote:The fact that almost 40% of their grads can't find jobs is a bit disturbing.
Why should the bottom of the class find jobs? Would you want a doctor who graduated in the bottom 40% of his class? Of course not. So why would you want a lawyer (who represents your best interest) who is not competent enough to at least be in the top half of the class?
I know I know, grades aren't everything and some people who graduate at the bottom of the class turn out to be great doctors, lawyers, superheroes, whatever. I get it. The fact is, if you finish in the bottom 40% or lower, what did you expect? If you were a hiring manager, would you flock to mediocrity? I doubt it.
Re: The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:28 pm
by Veyron
MrPapagiorgio wrote:FiveSermon wrote:The fact that almost 40% of their grads can't find jobs is a bit disturbing.
Why should the bottom of the class find jobs? Would you want a doctor who graduated in the bottom 40% of his class? Of course not. So why would you want a lawyer (who represents your best interest) who is not competent enough to at least be in the top half of the class?
I know I know, grades aren't everything and some people who graduate at the bottom of the class turn out to be great doctors, lawyers, superheroes, whatever. I get it. The fact is, if you finish in the bottom 40% or lower, what did you expect? If you were a hiring manager, would you flock to mediocrity? I doubt it.
*Attends Yale*
*Is in bottom 40%*
*Is courted lasciviously by V5 hiring partners*
*Asks, "you mad bro?"
Re: The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:31 pm
by blacklawboss
Veyron wrote:MrPapagiorgio wrote:FiveSermon wrote:The fact that almost 40% of their grads can't find jobs is a bit disturbing.
Why should the bottom of the class find jobs? Would you want a doctor who graduated in the bottom 40% of his class? Of course not. So why would you want a lawyer (who represents your best interest) who is not competent enough to at least be in the top half of the class?
I know I know, grades aren't everything and some people who graduate at the bottom of the class turn out to be great doctors, lawyers, superheroes, whatever. I get it. The fact is, if you finish in the bottom 40% or lower, what did you expect? If you were a hiring manager, would you flock to mediocrity? I doubt it.
*Attends Yale*
*Is in bottom 40%*
*Is courted lasciviously by V5 hiring partners*
*Asks, "you mad bro?"
+1 preach on brother
Re: The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:17 pm
by lovejopd
wow 40% is huge...However, I thought that does not mean the only bottoms 40% could not find a job.
Re: The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:17 pm
by HarlandBassett
Re: The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:06 pm
by lovejopd
Wow I see...donuts...
Re: The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:11 pm
by kaspar
does anyone have a link to the raw data for the USNWR rankings? Emory, or all of them...I remember ATL posted a pic of the whole table last year--is that around anywhere? I'd like to see the underlying data
Re: The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:15 pm
by Big Dog
[quote]Why should the bottom of the class find jobs? Would you want a doctor who graduated in the bottom 40% of his class? Of course not./quote]
Regardless of what you may want, I can assure you that 99% of all graduates from all allopathic med schools will find a job.
Re: The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:36 pm
by SoupIsGoodFood
MrPapagiorgio wrote:FiveSermon wrote:The fact that almost 40% of their grads can't find jobs is a bit disturbing.
Why should the bottom of the class find jobs?
Would you want a doctor who graduated in the bottom 40% of his class? Of course not. So why would you want a lawyer (who represents your best interest) who is not competent enough to at least be in the top half of the class?
I know I know, grades aren't everything and some people who graduate at the bottom of the class turn out to be great doctors, lawyers, superheroes, whatever. I get it. The fact is, if you finish in the bottom 40% or lower, what did you expect? If you were a hiring manager, would you flock to mediocrity? I doubt it.
...yes, because when I go see a doctor for the first time, I demand full printouts of his transcripts, class rank and copies of his application essays before I so much as let him take my temperature. wtf?
Re: The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:40 pm
by SoupIsGoodFood
I haven't heard back from Emory yet, but this is from an email they sent today:
"Emory’s move to No. 30 may be directly attributed to a change in the methodology U.S. News uses to calculate employment statistics. For example, under this new methodology, our graduates who chose to pursue further graduate education after law school were deemed unemployed."
Hmmm, well why would you pursue further graduate education after law school unless you were...unemployed?
Re: The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:41 pm
by JDeterminedF
SoupIsGoodFood wrote:MrPapagiorgio wrote:FiveSermon wrote:The fact that almost 40% of their grads can't find jobs is a bit disturbing.
Why should the bottom of the class find jobs?
Would you want a doctor who graduated in the bottom 40% of his class? Of course not. So why would you want a lawyer (who represents your best interest) who is not competent enough to at least be in the top half of the class?
I know I know, grades aren't everything and some people who graduate at the bottom of the class turn out to be great doctors, lawyers, superheroes, whatever. I get it. The fact is, if you finish in the bottom 40% or lower, what did you expect? If you were a hiring manager, would you flock to mediocrity? I doubt it.
...yes, because when I go see a doctor for the first time, I demand full printouts of his transcripts, class rank and copies of his application essays before I so much as let him take my temperature. wtf?
I thought this wasn't done regularly. Glad I'm not the only one!
Re: The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:44 pm
by MrPapagiorgio
lovejopd wrote:wow 40% is huge...However, I thought that does not mean the only bottoms 40% could not find a job.
Yes, I know this.
SoupIsGoodFood wrote:MrPapagiorgio wrote:FiveSermon wrote:The fact that almost 40% of their grads can't find jobs is a bit disturbing.
Why should the bottom of the class find jobs?
Would you want a doctor who graduated in the bottom 40% of his class? Of course not. So why would you want a lawyer (who represents your best interest) who is not competent enough to at least be in the top half of the class?
I know I know, grades aren't everything and some people who graduate at the bottom of the class turn out to be great doctors, lawyers, superheroes, whatever. I get it. The fact is, if you finish in the bottom 40% or lower, what did you expect? If you were a hiring manager, would you flock to mediocrity? I doubt it.
...yes, because when I go see a doctor for the first time, I demand full printouts of his transcripts, class rank and copies of his application essays before I so much as let him take my temperature. wtf?
Not what I meant. My point is that simply graduating from any law school is not enough. You actually have to perform well to get a job
. The prevailing opinion on this board is that if you get into a T14, you will be set because you have more leeway in how shitty your grades can be and still get a job (as opposed to a TTT/TTTT which apparently requires top 10% to get a job) and therefore many are surprised when grads from top schools are unemployed (never mind their 2.4 GPAs, they should get a biglaw jerb right?).
Re: The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:47 pm
by dresden doll
SoupIsGoodFood wrote:MrPapagiorgio wrote:FiveSermon wrote:The fact that almost 40% of their grads can't find jobs is a bit disturbing.
Why should the bottom of the class find jobs?
Would you want a doctor who graduated in the bottom 40% of his class? Of course not. So why would you want a lawyer (who represents your best interest) who is not competent enough to at least be in the top half of the class?
I know I know, grades aren't everything and some people who graduate at the bottom of the class turn out to be great doctors, lawyers, superheroes, whatever. I get it. The fact is, if you finish in the bottom 40% or lower, what did you expect? If you were a hiring manager, would you flock to mediocrity? I doubt it.
...yes, because when I go see a doctor for the first time, I demand full printouts of his transcripts, class rank and copies of his application essays before I so much as let him take my temperature. wtf?
You show promise as a poster.
Re: The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:23 pm
by apl6783
Why is their employment on graduation so low? Do Emory graduates truly have significantly less ability to find jobs than UGA grads, GA State grades, Alabama grads, et cetera?
I just don't see how their employment on graduation statistic is lower than GA State's, or UGA's even.
UGA is a peer school, given this + the fact that Emory is at least as prestigious (though probably slightly more prestigious) as UGA, how could Emory's placement stats be so shitty?
Re: The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:31 pm
by Janus
So wrong on so many levels. It's not as black and white as TLS posters make it out to be.
MrPapagiorgio wrote:lovejopd wrote:wow 40% is huge...However, I thought that does not mean the only bottoms 40% could not find a job.
Yes, I know this.
SoupIsGoodFood wrote:MrPapagiorgio wrote:FiveSermon wrote:The fact that almost 40% of their grads can't find jobs is a bit disturbing.
Why should the bottom of the class find jobs?
Would you want a doctor who graduated in the bottom 40% of his class? Of course not. So why would you want a lawyer (who represents your best interest) who is not competent enough to at least be in the top half of the class?
I know I know, grades aren't everything and some people who graduate at the bottom of the class turn out to be great doctors, lawyers, superheroes, whatever. I get it. The fact is, if you finish in the bottom 40% or lower, what did you expect? If you were a hiring manager, would you flock to mediocrity? I doubt it.
...yes, because when I go see a doctor for the first time, I demand full printouts of his transcripts, class rank and copies of his application essays before I so much as let him take my temperature. wtf?
Not what I meant. My point is that simply graduating from any law school is not enough. You actually have to perform well to get a job
. The prevailing opinion on this board is that if you get into a T14, you will be set because you have more leeway in how shitty your grades can be and still get a job (as opposed to a TTT/TTTT which apparently requires top 10% to get a job) and therefore many are surprised when grads from top schools are unemployed (never mind their 2.4 GPAs, they should get a biglaw jerb right?).
Re: The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:32 pm
by Aqualibrium
apl6783 wrote:Why is their employment on graduation so low? Do Emory graduates truly have significantly less ability to find jobs than UGA grads, GA State grades, Alabama grads, et cetera?
I just don't see how their employment on graduation statistic is lower than GA State's, or UGA's even.
UGA is a peer school, given this + the fact that Emory is at least as prestigious (though probably slightly more prestigious) as UGA, how could Emory's placement stats be so shitty?
It's a pretty well known fact (if you're in this region/applying for jobs in this region) that Emory doesn't have as good a relationship with small and mid-sized firms in the region as UGA and other schools in the Southeast.
Emory has been able to thrive despite this because they had strong placement in ATL big law and could place in some of the larger markets as well. ATL had very few true big law shops though, and as we are all aware, ATL and a lot of those larger markets Emory relied on in the past have declined. In fact, I recall reading that as far as number of attorneys, ATL was hit as hard if not harder than most legal markets out there.
All those things conspire to make it difficult for Emory grads to find jobs.
Re: The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:36 pm
by apl6783
I didn't realize firms were so biased in their hiring practices. If I were hiring someone, I wouldn't care whether or not they went to the same school as I did.
Re: The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:29 pm
by adt231
Does it even matter at ALL that Emory dropped from tied at 22 with a bunch of other schools to 30?????
Re: The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:48 pm
by ccmbr006
Because Emory is for Ivy rejects, and most people in Georgia would hire a UGA grad over an Emory grad any day of the week.
Re: The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:52 pm
by gwuorbust
Pre Crash: t-14 was a feeding frenzy and some non-t14 schools became the "go to" alternates for BigLaw firms. These are not necessarily same as the USNWR ranking. examples include Tulane, Emory, GMU, etc.
Post Crash: t-14 grads even struggle to find jobs. therefore, there is no need for BigLaw firms to even make the treck down to the alternative schools when they can have their pick of t-14 graduates no problems. that is why Emory has 40% unemployment at graduation and Tulane's 140k "starting salary" is no more. it is called market adjustment. also, since these schools did not cultivate relationships with small/midsized firms (and honesty, at the time of 06/7 it didn't make sense to even bother with small firms since most graduates had their pick of jobs), they are now scrambling with the reality that they have fewer places to put their graduates.
Re: The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:00 pm
by Nicholasnickynic
Not what I meant. My point is that simply graduating from any law school is not enough. You actually have to perform well to get a job . The prevailing opinion on this board is that if you get into a T14, you will be set because you have more leeway in how shitty your grades can be and still get a job (as opposed to a TTT/TTTT which apparently requires top 10% to get a job) and therefore many are surprised when grads from top schools are unemployed (never mind their 2.4 GPAs, they should get a biglaw jerb right?).
nevermind thier 2.4 gpas? Look who the fuck they are competing against. I dont go to a t14, not even close, but if I were hiring, id take a below median t-14 student over a #1 student at TTT.
Re: The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:02 pm
by gwuorbust
Nicholasnickynic wrote:
Not what I meant. My point is that simply graduating from any law school is not enough. You actually have to perform well to get a job . The prevailing opinion on this board is that if you get into a T14, you will be set because you have more leeway in how shitty your grades can be and still get a job (as opposed to a TTT/TTTT which apparently requires top 10% to get a job) and therefore many are surprised when grads from top schools are unemployed (never mind their 2.4 GPAs, they should get a biglaw jerb right?).
nevermind thier 2.4 gpas? Look who the fuck they are competing against. I dont go to a t14, not even close, but if I were hiring, id take a below median t-14 student over a #1 student at TTT.
meh, I think grades merely help hiring partners figure out who to let interview. once ppl are let in the door to interview, it becomes more of a test of who interviews best.
Re: The reason for huge drop of Emory
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:15 pm
by apl6783
Nicholasnickynic wrote:
Not what I meant. My point is that simply graduating from any law school is not enough. You actually have to perform well to get a job . The prevailing opinion on this board is that if you get into a T14, you will be set because you have more leeway in how shitty your grades can be and still get a job (as opposed to a TTT/TTTT which apparently requires top 10% to get a job) and therefore many are surprised when grads from top schools are unemployed (never mind their 2.4 GPAs, they should get a biglaw jerb right?).
nevermind thier 2.4 gpas? Look who the fuck they are competing against. I dont go to a t14, not even close, but if I were hiring, id take a below median t-14 student over a #1 student at TTT.
Logic like this is the reason you'll never be hiring anyone, ever.