Top Law Schools

So here are my stats,
Obtained my BA in 2005, 161 LSAT, 2.59 undergrad, went to community college while working full time for a AA in a foreign language where I got a 4.0.

I'd really like to go to UCI or SLS due to their course offerings that are perfect for my goals, but unfortunately those 2 are nearly impossible for me. Although I haven't gotten a rejection letter just yet.

Last year, I applied to Southwestern, and got accepted into their SCALE program in early Feb. I declined since they didn't offer deferments, and decided to finish out a work contract overseas.

So here's my predicament:

I just go offered nearly a full ride scholarship for being amongst the top 15% of applicants at LaVern. After all fees are taken into account, the grant will cover 94% of tuition and fees. Renewable at 100% if I place in top 15% each yr. However, I need to submit my reply/deposit by April 1st. I'm still waiting on the decisions from 3 other schools. So I'm wondering, if I do not hear back from them by the end of March, I will accept ULV and apply for a transfer after 1L.

How hard is it to transfer after 1L, assuming that I am in the top 15% of my class at the end of 1L?
Also, IF I get accepted into one of my desired schools with no money, which school would all of you choose? ULV and attempt a transfer after 1L, or start 1L at the desired school of your choice?

lol don't bank on finishing in the top 10 or whatever, dude.

Also, if you had a 4.0 gpa for your AA how in the fuck did you finish your BA with a 2.6?

Top 15% to retain? That's ridiculous

omg noooooooooo

If you have no other options, you might want to consider it. If you can't get the grades to transfer, you really oughta drop out of LaVerne anyway. And with that scholarship, you'll walk away with only a year wasted. The only thing you dont want to do is attend LaVerne, fail at meeting the stipulation, and continuing. If you pursue this option you should be fully prepared to drop if transferring doesn't work out

For your sake, don't even consider this as a real option. I know it sounds good to have a full ride, but the stipulations are crazy and LaVerne isn't worth the risk of losing the scholarship.

Shitty schools like this section stack. They give 100 students a top 15% requirement, then put them all on the same 100 person curve. 85% will lose it.

in a class of 127 (fall 2010), top 15% is about top 18... Doesn't seem to hard to do at ULV, and I do plan on being in that top 15% should I attend ULV, or die trying (figuratively speaking).

The breakdown for the grant is this, calculated at the end of 1L and 2L:
top 15%, retain full grant amount.
top 1/3, retain 75%
top 50%, retain 50%
top 75%, retain 25%
bottom 25%, lose grant

As for my undergrad crap GPA, I graduated 6 yrs ago, and wasn't planning on any sort of grad school at that point in time due to being involved in starting a business. However, my interests have shifted since then, and I have become much more focused as shown by my AA degree GPA.

Unfortunately, it's my undergrad GPA that's screwing me over at this point. Wish I had more focus in school as opposed to starting the business. But one doesn't learn anything useful is undergrad... which is mostly why I didn't care for it. Classes that pertained to my educational goals I did great in, most classes were not though.

aznatama wrote:in a class of 127 (fall 2010), top 15% is about top 18... Doesn't seem to hard to do at ULV, and I do plan on being in that top 15% should I attend ULV, or die trying (figuratively speaking).

The breakdown for the grant is this, calculated at the end of 1L and 2L:
top 15%, retain full grant amount.
top 1/3, retain 75%
top 50%, retain 50%
top 75%, retain 25%
bottom 25%, lose grant

That sounds incredibly hard to be one of eighteen people that gets to keep their full scholarship. We all want to be #1 but you have to think realistically about this. Would you be OK going there on a half scholarship? Because statistically that's where you'll end up is around median.

This may well by my only option though, and I have 3 weeks to decide. So we'll see.

IMO, If I can't place at least in the top 1/3 at ULV... I should just consider a different career choice.

aznatama wrote:This may well by my only option though, and I have 3 weeks to decide. So we'll see.

IMO, If I can't place at least in the top 1/3 at ULV... I should just consider a different career choice.

I know it sounds like we should all be able to do that. Hell, I've been in the top 5% in UG and Grad school. But I think the problem here is not your intelligence but the way in which low-tier schools set up their students for issues down the road. They stack sections and employ brutal, low GPA curves that make it hard for students to transfer or keep a scholarship. These are really things to think about, but good luck with your law school decisions.

aznatama wrote: IMO, If I can't place at least in the top 1/3 at ULV... I should just consider a different career choice.

If you already think this, you should just go ahead with ULV since you won't get into either SLS or UCI with your numbers applying as 0L.

Just keep in mind that even if you finish your 1L in the top 1%, your chance of transferring to SLS is very low, if not none.

University of La Verne? Couldn't find it on the rankings for first second third or fourth tier . . . Does it go by another name?

JG Hall wrote:omg noooooooooo

!!!!!!!!!! +10000000

adude wrote:University of La Verne? Couldn't find it on the rankings for first second third or fourth tier . . . Does it go by another name?

I don't think they are even ABA accredited. There are a lot of non-ABA schools in CA.

Kind of wonder if this is a flame because it is really a "nooooooo" thread, but then again, when I was first applying to law schools and Charlotte Law School emailed me with a scholarship offer (even though I didn't apply there lol), I actually thought that I might go there if they would give me a full ride (which they didn't- I am now at a T1 school on a much better scholly than they offered lol).

Seriously though OP, that is a tough stipulation in term of retain the full scholly- I think you really can't count on being top 15%, even though it probably is likely you would be if your numbers are way above most students going in (though I did just notice the full scale of tuition incentives related to rank after initially writing this; it does look like there is a reasonable cushion). I think you may be setting yourself up for extra stress, pressure, and potentially some financial and educational troubles if you take the offer. I would at least make positively sure they are ABA accredited- if not I don't think any ABA school will accept you as a transfer even if you are top 1%. Also, planning to (or even really hoping to) transfer from the get-go really sucks; I know from experience, and I feel that way even though I think I may have a reasonable shot at transferring.

What else is available? You do have a really low GPA, but your LSAT is alright. I'm not even saying that you should absolutely not go to LaVerne with the full-scholly, as odd as that may seem if you have read the above. What I am saying is if you decide to go to LaVerne do it with the knowledge that you may be paying some amount of tuition for years two and three, you will likely be limited to getting a job in the immediate area of the school if you can get a legal job at all, and you can not count on transferring (or at least if you do plan on that it could make you miserable). It could work out for you (I met a guy who said his sister went to a T4 a few years ago in Cali and is now making 300k per year), but the odds don't sound good. I would consider all your options and do as much research as possible.

Lawquacious wrote:Kind of wonder if this is a flame because it is really a "nooooooo" thread, but then again, when I was first applying to law schools and Charlotte Law School emailed me with a scholarship offer (even though I didn't apply there lol), I actually thought that I might go there if they would give me a full ride (which they didn't- I am now at a T1 school on a much better scholly than they offered lol).

Seriously though OP, that is a tough stipulation in term of retain the full scholly- I think you really can't count on being top 15%, even though it probably is likely you would be if your numbers are way above most students going in (though I did just notice the full scale of tuition incentives related to rank after initially writing this; it does look like there is a reasonable cushion). I think you may be setting yourself up for extra stress, pressure, and potentially some financial and educational troubles if you take the offer. I would at least make positively sure they are ABA accredited- if not I don't think any ABA school will accept you as a transfer even if you are top 1%. Also, planning to (or even really hoping to) transfer from the get-go really sucks; I know from experience, and I feel that way even though I think I may have a reasonable shot at transferring.

What else is available? You do have a really low GPA, but your LSAT is alright. I'm not even saying that you should absolutely not go to LaVerne with the full-scholly, as odd as that may seem if you have read the above. What I am saying is if you decide to go to LaVerne do it with the knowledge that you may be paying some amount of tuition for years two and three, you will likely be limited to getting a job in the immediate area of the school if you can get a legal job at all, and you can not count on transferring (or at least if you do plan on that it could make you miserable). It could work out for you (I met a guy who said his sister went to a T4 a few years ago in Cali and is now making 300k per year), but the odds don't sound good. I would consider all your options and do as much research as possible.

They are in provisional ABA approval, and inside sources are citing that they are hopeful to get full accreditation this year.

As for the structure of low tier law schools, if they structured their classes to have very difficult grading curves, it would affect all students about equally, and since the scholarship retention is based on class rank, then it wouldn't affect retainment as much as if retention was GPA-based.

Lastly, I am pretty certain that I will choose a different school, should I get into another school. I'm on the Wait-list at Chapman, SLS and UCI probability are near nil, so that leaves Loyola and Southwestern. I'm actually hoping to get into Southwestern again, which I would probably take over ULV. Although a full ride DOES sound rather tempting... >_<

aznatama wrote:

Lawquacious wrote:Kind of wonder if this is a flame because it is really a "nooooooo" thread, but then again, when I was first applying to law schools and Charlotte Law School emailed me with a scholarship offer (even though I didn't apply there lol), I actually thought that I might go there if they would give me a full ride (which they didn't- I am now at a T1 school on a much better scholly than they offered lol).

Seriously though OP, that is a tough stipulation in term of retain the full scholly- I think you really can't count on being top 15%, even though it probably is likely you would be if your numbers are way above most students going in (though I did just notice the full scale of tuition incentives related to rank after initially writing this; it does look like there is a reasonable cushion). I think you may be setting yourself up for extra stress, pressure, and potentially some financial and educational troubles if you take the offer. I would at least make positively sure they are ABA accredited- if not I don't think any ABA school will accept you as a transfer even if you are top 1%. Also, planning to (or even really hoping to) transfer from the get-go really sucks; I know from experience, and I feel that way even though I think I may have a reasonable shot at transferring.

What else is available? You do have a really low GPA, but your LSAT is alright. I'm not even saying that you should absolutely not go to LaVerne with the full-scholly, as odd as that may seem if you have read the above. What I am saying is if you decide to go to LaVerne do it with the knowledge that you may be paying some amount of tuition for years two and three, you will likely be limited to getting a job in the immediate area of the school if you can get a legal job at all, and you can not count on transferring (or at least if you do plan on that it could make you miserable). It could work out for you (I met a guy who said his sister went to a T4 a few years ago in Cali and is now making 300k per year), but the odds don't sound good. I would consider all your options and do as much research as possible.

They are in provisional ABA approval, and inside sources are citing that they are hopeful to get full accreditation this year.

As for the structure of low tier law schools, if they structured their classes to have very difficult grading curves, it would affect all students about equally, and since the scholarship retention is based on class rank, then it wouldn't affect retainment as much as if retention was GPA-based.

Lastly, I am pretty certain that I will choose a different school, should I get into another school. I'm on the Wait-list at Chapman, SLS and UCI probability are near nil, so that leaves Loyola and Southwestern. I'm actually hoping to get into Southwestern again, which I would probably take over ULV. Although a full ride DOES sound rather tempting... >_<

I dont think your chances at loyola are good. Are you a non-traditional applicant? URM?

Hold out for Shirley imo.

fatduck wrote:Hold out for Shirley imo.

gothamm wrote:
I dont think your chances at loyola are good. Are you a non-traditional applicant? URM?

I don't think I qualify as a non-traditional applicant, although I am a Veteran and business owner with lots of various business and travel experiences. I tried to emphasize my business experiences, language abilities, recent success in school, and diversity. Basically I tried to do all I could to make up for my low GPA. I was in Computer Science for undergrad, and there was a curve in many classes... a REAL curve. For example, getting a 96.5% in one of my classes resulted in a B+... needless to say, it was a rather competitive program where a solid C was average, and A's/B's were reserved for those who had a knack for programming.

aznatama wrote:

Lawquacious wrote:Kind of wonder if this is a flame because it is really a "nooooooo" thread, but then again, when I was first applying to law schools and Charlotte Law School emailed me with a scholarship offer (even though I didn't apply there lol), I actually thought that I might go there if they would give me a full ride (which they didn't- I am now at a T1 school on a much better scholly than they offered lol).

Seriously though OP, that is a tough stipulation in term of retain the full scholly- I think you really can't count on being top 15%, even though it probably is likely you would be if your numbers are way above most students going in (though I did just notice the full scale of tuition incentives related to rank after initially writing this; it does look like there is a reasonable cushion). I think you may be setting yourself up for extra stress, pressure, and potentially some financial and educational troubles if you take the offer. I would at least make positively sure they are ABA accredited- if not I don't think any ABA school will accept you as a transfer even if you are top 1%. Also, planning to (or even really hoping to) transfer from the get-go really sucks; I know from experience, and I feel that way even though I think I may have a reasonable shot at transferring.

What else is available? You do have a really low GPA, but your LSAT is alright. I'm not even saying that you should absolutely not go to LaVerne with the full-scholly, as odd as that may seem if you have read the above. What I am saying is if you decide to go to LaVerne do it with the knowledge that you may be paying some amount of tuition for years two and three, you will likely be limited to getting a job in the immediate area of the school if you can get a legal job at all, and you can not count on transferring (or at least if you do plan on that it could make you miserable). It could work out for you (I met a guy who said his sister went to a T4 a few years ago in Cali and is now making 300k per year), but the odds don't sound good. I would consider all your options and do as much research as possible.

They are in provisional ABA approval, and inside sources are citing that they are hopeful to get full accreditation this year.

As for the structure of low tier law schools, if they structured their classes to have very difficult grading curves, it would affect all students about equally, and since the scholarship retention is based on class rank, then it wouldn't affect retainment as much as if retention was GPA-based.

Lastly, I am pretty certain that I will choose a different school, should I get into another school. I'm on the Wait-list at Chapman, SLS and UCI probability are near nil, so that leaves Loyola and Southwestern. I'm actually hoping to get into Southwestern again, which I would probably take over ULV. Although a full ride DOES sound rather tempting... >_<

Provisional ABA approval?! You would have to take the baby bar after 1L. Section stacking means one section is full of people with top 15% requirements. Each section is curved before being combined with the other sections for the overall class ranking. A top 15% requirement is absolutely ridiculous, though it helps that you won't lose it all, but just a part, for failing to meet that requirement.

I don't think I have ever said this before but "Southwestern is a much, much better school" than LaVerne. In your case, I would suggest doing Southwestern Part Time so you can still work and keep your debt down. Hopefully one of these other schools appreciates your diverse background and hooks-ya up.

ABA approval?! You would have to take the baby bar after 1L. Section stacking means one section is full of people with top 15% requirements. Each section is curved before being combined with the other sections for the overall class ranking. A top 15% requirement is absolutely ridiculous, though it helps that you won't lose it all, but just a part, for failing to meet that requirement.

I don't think I have ever said this before but "Southwestern is a much, much better school" than LaVerne. In your case, I would suggest doing Southwestern Part Time so you can still work and keep your debt down. Hopefully one of these other schools appreciates your diverse background and hooks-ya up.

Do you think they would section stack with only 114 full time students? Has anyone ever heard of a La Verne to UCLA/USC/Berkley transfer? I didn't see anything on yahoo transfer apps.