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Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:37 pm
by Pneumatic
So, I'm thinking about attending Phoenix law: a newly accredited law school in Phoenix, Arizona. The school has the highest bar passage rate in the state at 97% (much higher than the University of Arizona or Arizona state) and around 90% employment after 9 months. Essentially, my options are limited because of my low LSAT and high GPA, but a relocation to Phoenix sounds great. Should I take the risk of starting new beginnings at a hot newly accredited school in the center of a huge open market or play it safe and go to a traditional lower tier school closer to boring-old-home (Midwest) ?
Opinions greatly appreciated
Re: Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:41 pm
by BlueDiamond
I wouldn't base a decision on the schools reported employment percentages they are unreliable.. many will say retake.. id say dont attend phoenix law
Re: Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:46 pm
by gens1tb
I'm not sure about "open huge market"
or if the school is "hot"
Also, don't trust the school provided statistics.
Re: Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:52 pm
by MrPapagiorgio
gens1tb wrote:Also, don't trust the school provided statistics.
TITCR. Never trust what the school says regarding % employed at graduation or 9 months after graduation and what they say the average or median salary is. EVER. They are in the business of taking your money for three years. Reality check.
Re: Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:54 pm
by Pneumatic
BlueDiamond wrote:I wouldn't base a decision on the schools reported employment percentages they are unreliable.. many will say retake.. id say dont attend phoenix law
What's the biggest reason why you wouldn't if you could only get into tier 3 and 4 schools?
Re: Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:00 pm
by BlueDiamond
Pneumatic wrote:BlueDiamond wrote:I wouldn't base a decision on the schools reported employment percentages they are unreliable.. many will say retake.. id say dont attend phoenix law
What's the biggest reason why you wouldn't if you could only get into tier 3 and 4 schools?
mainly because there arent many t3/t4 that will offer job prospects that allow you to pay back all the debt youll incur.. if youre going for free and dont mind using three years to take a shot at the jobs you want then that is kind of a different story.. my biggest thing in this case is that you said you have a high gpa and low lsat.. you can retake the lsat and get into almost any school you want depending on how high the gpa really is.. if you go to phoenix law and want to be a lawyer be ready to stay in phoenix because youll need excellent grades to transfer/work anywhere else coming from there
so my main reason is because t3/t4 arent the ONLY schools you can get into with a little more work on the LSAT
Re: Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:01 pm
by joebloe
Pneumatic wrote:BlueDiamond wrote:I wouldn't base a decision on the schools reported employment percentages they are unreliable.. many will say retake.. id say dont attend phoenix law
What's the biggest reason why you wouldn't if you could only get into tier 3 and 4 schools?
Real job prospects with a degree from one of those institutions are scary, as are the chances of paying down your LS debt. And forget transferring or keeping a conditional scholly for all 3 years.
Re: Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:04 pm
by MrPapagiorgio
Pneumatic wrote:BlueDiamond wrote:I wouldn't base a decision on the schools reported employment percentages they are unreliable.. many will say retake.. id say dont attend phoenix law
What's the biggest reason why you wouldn't if you could only get into tier 3 and 4 schools?
1. Phoenix Law has no alumni base.
2. You can get in to better T3 schools, because nearly every T3 school is better than this joke of a law school.
3. I would hardly call Phoenix law a "hot" newly accredited school.
4. Some regional schools have a good reputation, even in this elitist profession. Phoenix law, on the other hand, gives a new meaning to the phrase "third tier toilet." It isn't even the toilet. It is the crap that the toilet flushes.
OP, if you really want to go to Phoenix law, have at it. It is a decision that you more than likely will come to regret. But follow your own dreams. What we say is not worth much because it is YOUR life.
Re: Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:08 pm
by Stonewall
Isn't Phoenix one of those for-profit schools? If so, please listen to ppl on this board and retake your LSAT or don't go
Re: Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:16 pm
by Pneumatic
BlueDiamond wrote:Pneumatic wrote:BlueDiamond wrote:I wouldn't base a decision on the schools reported employment percentages they are unreliable.. many will say retake.. id say dont attend phoenix law
What's the biggest reason why you wouldn't if you could only get into tier 3 and 4 schools?
mainly because there arent many t3/t4 that will offer job prospects that allow you to pay back all the debt youll incur.. if youre going for free and dont mind using three years to take a shot at the jobs you want then that is kind of a different story.. my biggest thing in this case is that you said you have a high gpa and low lsat.. you can retake the lsat and get into almost any school you want depending on how high the gpa really is.. if you go to phoenix law and want to be a lawyer be ready to stay in phoenix because youll need excellent grades to transfer/work anywhere else coming from there
so my main reason is because t3/t4 arent the ONLY schools you can get into with a little more work on the LSAT
Re: Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:18 pm
by Pneumatic
Pneumatic wrote:BlueDiamond wrote:Pneumatic wrote:BlueDiamond wrote:I wouldn't base a decision on the schools reported employment percentages they are unreliable.. many will say retake.. id say dont attend phoenix law
What's the biggest reason why you wouldn't if you could only get into tier 3 and 4 schools?
mainly because there arent many t3/t4 that will offer job prospects that allow you to pay back all the debt youll incur.. if youre going for free and dont mind using three years to take a shot at the jobs you want then that is kind of a different story.. my biggest thing in this case is that you said you have a high gpa and low lsat.. you can retake the lsat and get into almost any school you want depending on how high the gpa really is.. if you go to phoenix law and want to be a lawyer be ready to stay in phoenix because youll need excellent grades to transfer/work anywhere else coming from there
so my main reason is because t3/t4 arent the ONLY schools you can get into with a little more work on the LSAT
Great points. This is really good feedback. I scored a 147 and have a 3.7 GPA. After 4 months of studying I managed to raise my score only 2 points from my diagnostic of 145. The highest I scored during my 25+ (under timed conditioned) practice tests was a 153 3 times. I'm not sure I could score higher than around this number even if I studied and took the June LSAT . Basically, I can't read fast enough and do the logic at the same time to get those big numbers. I have trouble with the logic of all the sections more than with my ability to read fast even though I don't consider my myself a fast reader probably slow-medium to medium. Really, I feel like I missing. It's like I have all the tools, but I can't put them together. I just don't think I can fully figure out the logic aspect of each section. By the way, I read all the PowerScore books from cover to cover, and took over 25 timed tests where I went over each question.
Re: Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:28 pm
by mpj_3050
1. Tuition, according to their site, 34k a year.
2. 40% are paying sticker, I would venture to say there are strict stipulations and a good number probably wash out.
3. It is owned by Infinilaw (which owns 2 or 3 other law schools )or some shit like that. It is a corporation out to fleece you.
4. You can make an argument for a T3/T4 public school if you are going super cheap+combination of other factors. However, you can't justify any of the blood sucking T3/T4 privates. Even with a scholarship you could end up with 100k plus at most of these places.
5. Finally, University of Phoenix has TV ads. Don't ever attend a school that has a commercial unless it is airing during a sporting event that their team is in.
Oh, and for the love of god retake.
Re: Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:36 pm
by MrPapagiorgio
mpj_3050 wrote:1. Tuition, according to their site, 34k a year.
2. 40% are paying sticker, I would venture to say there are strict stipulations and a good number probably wash out.
3. It is owned by Infinilaw (which owns 2 or 3 other law schools )or some shit like that. It is a corporation out to fleece you.
4. You can make an argument for a T3/T4 public school if you are going super cheap+combination of other factors. However, you can't justify any of the blood sucking T3/T4 privates. Even with a scholarship you could end up with 100k plus at most of these places.
5. Finally, University of Phoenix has TV ads. Don't ever attend a school that has a commercial unless it is airing during a sporting event that their team is in.
Oh, and for the love of god retake.
I agree with everything in this post, ESPECIALLY number 3.
Re: Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:19 pm
by overunderachiever
Phoenix is T4. Also not affiliated with University of Phoenix. Candy made that very clear in her e-mails...just sayin'
Re: Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:47 pm
by Aggiegrad2011
Ah, I loved Candy's e-mails. She offered me a pretty large 3 year scholarship but it had a top 25% clause.
With another 13 points you could look at ASU and U. Ariz, OP. Don't go to Phx law unless it's damn near free (and it's GUARANTEED, not stipped).
I hate the "retake" rhetoric around here but with a <150 you might as well not even go to LS without extenuating circumstances that led to the <150 (For example, if you could get certified as learning disabled from a CC or something b/c you read slow, or something along those lines).
Just say no.
Re: Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:55 pm
by Stonewall
MrPapagiorgio wrote:mpj_3050 wrote:1. Tuition, according to their site, 34k a year.
2. 40% are paying sticker, I would venture to say there are strict stipulations and a good number probably wash out.
3. It is owned by Infinilaw (which owns 2 or 3 other law schools )or some shit like that. It is a corporation out to fleece you.
4. You can make an argument for a T3/T4 public school if you are going super cheap+combination of other factors. However, you can't justify any of the blood sucking T3/T4 privates. Even with a scholarship you could end up with 100k plus at most of these places.
5. Finally, University of Phoenix has TV ads. Don't ever attend a school that has a commercial unless it is airing during a sporting event that their team is in.
Oh, and for the love of god retake.
I agree with everything in this post, ESPECIALLY number 3.
number five was great.. Total agreement
Re: Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:29 pm
by androstan
Re: Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:45 pm
by BlueDiamond
Pneumatic wrote:
Great points. This is really good feedback. I scored a 147 and have a 3.7 GPA. After 4 months of studying I managed to raise my score only 2 points from my diagnostic of 145. The highest I scored during my 25+ (under timed conditioned) practice tests was a 153 3 times. I'm not sure I could score higher than around this number even if I studied and took the June LSAT . Basically, I can't read fast enough and do the logic at the same time to get those big numbers. I have trouble with the logic of all the sections more than with my ability to read fast even though I don't consider my myself a fast reader probably slow-medium to medium. Really, I feel like I missing. It's like I have all the tools, but I can't put them together. I just don't think I can fully figure out the logic aspect of each section. By the way, I read all the PowerScore books from cover to cover, and took over 25 timed tests where I went over each question.
the confidence problem you seem to have here will likely cause you to have small mental breakdowns in law school.. if the logic is tripping you up either get better at it or rethink law school.. and if in 4 months you only raised your score into the low 150's you are doing it wrong.. with a 3.7 GPA the LSAT score is all thats holding you back from a really good school... my advice is to retake which nobody wants to hear.. but its your life.. make a decision and fully commit to it.. if that decision is phoenix then good luck and i hope it works out for you.. but make sure you fully investigate everything that goes with it and what the actual job prospects are coming from there
Re: Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:51 pm
by Aqualibrium
Why do people who "can't read fast enough and do logic at the same time" on the lsat think they can go to law school and do well?
Aren't law school exams all about "reading fast enough and doing logic at the same time" in a time pressured situation?
Isn't that what the LSAT is as well?
If you cant succeed at one, how can you succeed at the other?
Re: Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:53 pm
by androstan
Aqualibrium wrote:Why do people who "can't read fast enough and do logic at the same time" on the lsat think they can go to law school and do well?
Aren't law school exams all about "reading fast enough and doing logic at the same time" in a time pressured situation?
Isn't that what the LSAT is as well?
If you cant succeed at one, how can you succeed at the other?
Gotta +1 this. I would think actual law practice would also involve a decent bit of reading quickly, with good comprehension, and logically parsing that information under pressured, timed conditions.
Re: Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:10 pm
by RVP11
DO LOGIC
Re: Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:11 pm
by bellamy
I am very knowlegeable about the Phoenix market. Do not go to Phoenix Law. Unless you are extremely lucky (in which case you should borrow $100,00 and buy lottery tickets instead) you will not be able to get a law related job following graduation. I personally know a whole raft of median or above ASU grads who are unemployed. I know a number of t-14 students who cann't get a job.I even know a CCN grad. who was in the top 1/3 of his class who has looked for 9 months without success in the Phoenix market and his Dad is a practicing atty. in Phoenix. This would be a very bad decision if you actually will need a job following graduation.It would be an absolutely terrible decision if you had any law school debt.
Re: Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:59 am
by MrPapagiorgio
bellamy wrote:I am very knowlegeable about the Phoenix market. Do not go to Phoenix Law. Unless you are extremely lucky (in which case you should borrow $100,00 and buy lottery tickets instead) you will not be able to get a law related job following graduation. I personally know a whole raft of median or above ASU grads who are unemployed. I know a number of t-14 students who cann't get a job.I even know a CCN grad. who was in the top 1/3 of his class who has looked for 9 months without success in the Phoenix market and his Dad is a practicing atty. in Phoenix. This would be a very bad decision if you actually will need a job following graduation.It would be an absolutely terrible decision if you had any law school debt.
Does this person's father hate him? I mean, your father is about as good as a connection as you can have...
Re: Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:00 am
by ArchRoark
I am pretty sure they fail out a large percentage of their class.
Re: Phoenix Law: New Beginnings?
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:05 am
by bellamy
MrPapagiorgio wrote:bellamy wrote:I am very knowlegeable about the Phoenix market. Do not go to Phoenix Law. Unless you are extremely lucky (in which case you should borrow $100,00 and buy lottery tickets instead) you will not be able to get a law related job following graduation. I personally know a whole raft of median or above ASU grads who are unemployed. I know a number of t-14 students who cann't get a job.I even know a CCN grad. who was in the top 1/3 of his class who has looked for 9 months without success in the Phoenix market and his Dad is a practicing atty. in Phoenix. This would be a very bad decision if you actually will need a job following graduation.It would be an absolutely terrible decision if you had any law school debt.
Does this person's father hate him?
Sole practitioner who is suffering ITE