Is Entertainment Law Worth It? Forum

[Bigsby]

Hey everyone,

My numbers are a 3.7x GPA (will boost to 3.8x following the conclusion of this last semester at college) with a 165 LSAT. I am retaking my LSAT in June and can confidently say I will break 170. Regardless of this, I really want to go into entertainment law, specifically music would be nice. I know that asking 'is there really any money in this?' is kind of a silly question because hard times have seem to fallen on just about everyone, not to mention music, on top of law, is extremely hard to break into.

However I have a love for music (an understatement for sure), am extremely knowledgeable the technical/theoretical aspects, and am an advanced guitarist. While I'm sure this means jack shit, I was just wondering if going for Entertainment Law for music is kind of silly (I am shooting to attend a school in NY)...I am shooting for NYU upon retaking the LSAT and the other top NY schools but am also applying to Cardozo as I hear they also have a good entertainment program and I can most likely get money to go there which would be a blessing.

I was wondering if anyone had any insight into how to break into entertainment law, and what schools to recommend, etc. I am assuming that, while of course name and rank matter, you need some extra personality traits or expertise to succeed in Entertainment...but I guess you can say that about anything really.

And trust me, I know I'm not going to be living some cliche dream of being Motley Crue's entertainment lawyer and going out on tour and rocking the world. That's silly. I love music and I wanna be a lawyer. That's all.

Thank you so much!!!

P.S. Does your intent to study less populated fields such as Entertainment Law give you a boost in acceptance when Adcomm's are looking at your application? Just wondering, thank you!

[FeelTheHeat]

Hey everyone,

My numbers are a 3.7x GPA (will boost to 3.8x following the conclusion of this last semester at college) with a 165 LSAT. I am retaking my LSAT in June and can confidently say I will break 170. Regardless of this, I really want to go into entertainment law, specifically music would be nice. I know that asking 'is there really any money in this?' is kind of a silly question because hard times have seem to fallen on just about everyone, not to mention music, on top of law, is extremely hard to break into.

However I have a love for music (an understatement for sure), am extremely knowledgeable the technical/theoretical aspects, and am an advanced guitarist. While I'm sure this means jack shit, I was just wondering if going for Entertainment Law for music is kind of silly (I am shooting to attend a school in NY)...I am shooting for NYU upon retaking the LSAT and the other top NY schools but am also applying to Cardozo as I hear they also have a good entertainment program and I can most likely get money to go there which would be a blessing.

I was wondering if anyone had any insight into how to break into entertainment law, and what schools to recommend, etc. I am assuming that, while of course name and rank matter, you need some extra personality traits or expertise to succeed in Entertainment...but I guess you can say that about anything really.

And trust me, I know I'm not going to be living some cliche dream of being Motley Crue's entertainment lawyer and going out on tour and rocking the world. That's silly. I love music and I wanna be a lawyer. That's all.

Thank you so much!!!

P.S. Does your intent to study less populated fields such as Entertainment Law give you a boost in acceptance when Adcomm's are looking at your application? Just wondering, thank you!

From what I have gathered from reading the site, specifically studying Sports/Entertainment/Music/etc. Law really does nothing as it is mostly just writing and understanding contracts and such. Once again this is limited knowledge but I believe the most oft-quoted ways to break into the business are either

A. Know an artist on their way to the top and hope they stick with you

or

B. Work in corporate BigLaw and transition to an existing entertainment firm.

That's what I believe to be the response you will get, albeit a small one. Congrats on the grades, and good luck on your next LSAT.

[TaipeiMort]

Common sense would tell you to go to a school with a great film/ music program (UCLA, USC, NYU). However, people are going to tell you to go to the highest-ranked school possible, and they are probably right.

While there are schools that will really push their entertainment law focus, and available number of entertainment industry-related classes, this really doesn't matter all that much.

You are largely trained as an entertainment lawyer post-graduation in the first five years of your job, not in law school. The higher-ranked law school you attend, the better the prospective employers that will hire you which have an entertainment law focus. If you'd like verification, look at very prestigous firms which work in entertainment law and you will see very strong representation from most of the top law schools there.

If you get into a couple top schools, you will then want to look at alumni networks and music/film-industry-related programs. I'm guessing NYU has the most entertainment law connections of any top-14 law school (as their film program is second to only USC in terms of prestige and connections, but that is just a guess).

Here at Chicago Law we have some good alumni including Harvey Levin (Creator/Host of TMZ, the Peoples' Court, Celebrity Justice, etc.) and Adam Silver (NBA deputy commish/ head of business operations). I'm guessing other T6 schools have similarly strong entertainment-related alumni bases.

[chasgoose]

If you are sure that entertainment law is your thing, I'm not totally convinced going to the best school you get into is the greatest idea. Entertainment law firms (like everything in the entertainment industry) are very insular and finding your way into them isn't quite the same as getting into Big Law. They don't recruit as actively and they like to stay with the things that they know. I would definitely say that going to UCLA would be better if you want a career in entertainment law than probably any law school outside of NYU (and NYU only because it would give you more options than just entertainment if you decide to do something different once you are in law school). The big entertainment firms are only in NYC and LA (but most of them are in LA) and most of the power players in them probably came from UCLA/NYU/USC. For example, Ken Ziffren of Ziffren, Brittenham (one of the top entertainment law firms in LA) just donated $1 million to UCLA law school That suggests a rather heavy interest in UCLA grads for associate positions at his firm. Especially with your numbers, which right now make NYU a hardship, I would suggest putting a rather heavy focus on UCLA/USC as they would be much better positioned to get you where you want to go post-graduation than other law schools. Also, if you are in NYC/LA for law school, you have a much better chance at interacting with and meeting people in entertainment law than if you were anywhere else. I know UCLA allows you to do full-time externships while in law school. Something that would be far more valuable for entertainment law than attending Duke or UVA.

The thing is, the entertainment industry is a difficult beast to break into in any aspect. It's not really a matter of what courses you take (because as others said, you learn most of it as an associate). If the entertainment firms don't recruit at your school its going to be very hard to find them and apply for a job. Even the V10 firms have websites where you can send in an application if you are interested in working there and think you are qualified. Try finding a website for a major entertainment law firm (hint: they usually don't have websites). Due to the nature of the industry, these firms make it very hard to contact and interact with them if you don't already have a connection. If you want a job in that industry, connections and networking provided by your school are going to be of the utmost importance. No matter how good your school is, if they don't have an in with an entertainment firm, there's not much you can do.

[Fark-o-vision]

Entertainment law feels suspiciously like one of those made up legal fields. One of the most successful entertainment lawyers graduated from Duke (I think?). Drew Rosenhaus. Still, if you want to work in film or television, go to USC first, UCLA second. The whole thing revolves around the Trojan network in Hollywood. If you want to be a sports agent, I'd stick with either of the two above (though maybe now you can go with USNWR UCLA over USC), or a big New York school. Don't think you're going to be able to weasel your way into the lives of sports stars. Being an agent is a two part job:

1) Fronting tremendous amounts of money. College grads have nothing. You sign over 120K to them at graduation, and more if the contract holds out. In most sports, contracts are 99 percent determined by where a young athlete is drafted, anyway. The ability to write that big check is what convinces most of them.

2) Being able to convince parents, coaches, and friends that you have such a nuanced ability to negotiate sport specific contracts that you'll be able to get them market rate for draft status, and negotiate some killer performance bonuses that are both better than marginal and fully reachable.

[chasgoose]

Entertainment law feels suspiciously like one of those made up legal fields. One of the most successful entertainment lawyers graduated from Duke (I think?). Drew Rosenhaus. Still, if you want to work in film or television, go to USC first, UCLA second. The whole thing revolves around the Trojan network in Hollywood. If you want to be a sports agent, I'd stick with either of the two above (though maybe now you can go with USNWR UCLA over USC), or a big New York school. Don't think you're going to be able to weasel your way into the lives of sports stars. Being an agent is a two part job:

1) Fronting tremendous amounts of money. College grads have nothing. You sign over 120K to them at graduation, and more if the contract holds out. In most sports, contracts are 99 percent determined by where a young athlete is drafted, anyway. The ability to write that big check is what convinces most of them.

2) Being able to convince parents, coaches, and friends that you have such a nuanced ability to negotiate sport specific contracts that you'll be able to get them market rate for draft status, and negotiate some killer performance bonuses that are both better than marginal and fully reachable.

I would probably say UCLA is better for Entertainment Law than USC. For any other aspect of the entertainment industry, I would say USC>UCLA (although for most other aspects of the industry, they couldn't care less where you went to school), but for law, UCLA has things pretty locked down. Also, if you want to be an agent, there is absolutely no reason to go to law school. That is a giant waste of 3 years and $200k+. Even if you go to law school, you are still going to end up being someone's assistant for 3-5 years (making about 20-35k) before you become an agent. Better to be doing that then wasting your time and money on law school.

[Kabuo]

0L here, so don't mind me, but why has no one mentioned Vandy, especially with OP's preference for music? I know USNWR specialty rankings mean shit, but I figured their entertainment law ranking had some merit to it for at least the music scene.

[chasgoose]

0L here, so don't mind me, but why has no one mentioned Vandy, especially with OP's preference for music? I know USNWR specialty rankings mean shit, but I figured their entertainment law ranking had some merit to it for at least the music scene.

I wouldn't recommend Vandy unless the OP would be happy working almost entirely with country music stars. Aside from that small niche in Nashville, the entertainment industry is almost exclusively centered in LA/NYC, with the bulk being in LA.

[Fark-o-vision]

Entertainment law feels suspiciously like one of those made up legal fields. One of the most successful entertainment lawyers graduated from Duke (I think?). Drew Rosenhaus. Still, if you want to work in film or television, go to USC first, UCLA second. The whole thing revolves around the Trojan network in Hollywood. If you want to be a sports agent, I'd stick with either of the two above (though maybe now you can go with USNWR UCLA over USC), or a big New York school. Don't think you're going to be able to weasel your way into the lives of sports stars. Being an agent is a two part job:

1) Fronting tremendous amounts of money. College grads have nothing. You sign over 120K to them at graduation, and more if the contract holds out. In most sports, contracts are 99 percent determined by where a young athlete is drafted, anyway. The ability to write that big check is what convinces most of them.

2) Being able to convince parents, coaches, and friends that you have such a nuanced ability to negotiate sport specific contracts that you'll be able to get them market rate for draft status, and negotiate some killer performance bonuses that are both better than marginal and fully reachable.

I would probably say UCLA is better for Entertainment Law than USC. For any other aspect of the entertainment industry, I would say USC>UCLA (although for most other aspects of the industry, they couldn't care less where you went to school), but for law, UCLA has things pretty locked down. Also, if you want to be an agent, there is absolutely no reason to go to law school. That is a giant waste of 3 years and $200k+. Even if you go to law school, you are still going to end up being someone's assistant for 3-5 years (making about 20-35k) before you become an agent. Better to be doing that then wasting your time and money on law school.

Do you live in LA? Do you know LA? No offense, because generally I think you're right, but entertainment law is a specialty where, if you're doing what you want, you probably aren't working strictly in the legal setting. The Trojan network owns all when it comes to the Hollywood side of LA, and that is what I'm assuming the OP was looking for. For actual firm work, I'll admit UCLA is the better choice.

[eminem]

Assuming the retake doesn't deliver UCLA/USC numbers, is Loyola LA (with $?) a solid option for the OP?

[Fark-o-vision]

After looking back over your entry, I'd say go to the cheapest school in your region possible. It sounds like you're looking to represent a particular style of music, in a particular region, and your knowledge of contracts is going to matter more than most anything. Show enthusiasm for work. The career you've outlined isn't immediately rewarding and will take time to develop, so debt is a big no no. I'm not in the TLS, "The equation doesn't work out means you're lolz" crowd. You have particular goals and if they are realistic or not isn't the question, the question is how to best accomplish them.

[T6Hopeful]

Entertainment law feels suspiciously like one of those made up legal fields. One of the most successful entertainment lawyers graduated from Duke (I think?). Drew Rosenhaus. Still, if you want to work in film or television, go to USC first, UCLA second. The whole thing revolves around the Trojan network in Hollywood. If you want to be a sports agent, I'd stick with either of the two above (though maybe now you can go with USNWR UCLA over USC), or a big New York school. Don't think you're going to be able to weasel your way into the lives of sports stars. Being an agent is a two part job:

1) Fronting tremendous amounts of money. College grads have nothing. You sign over 120K to them at graduation, and more if the contract holds out. In most sports, contracts are 99 percent determined by where a young athlete is drafted, anyway. The ability to write that big check is what convinces most of them.

2) Being able to convince parents, coaches, and friends that you have such a nuanced ability to negotiate sport specific contracts that you'll be able to get them market rate for draft status, and negotiate some killer performance bonuses that are both better than marginal and fully reachable.

That's correct, and I believe to name another popular agent Scott Boras has a J.D. from McGeorge. It's all about connections in this field.

[vanwinkle]

There's a lot of truth in everything said already, so I'll just add this:

I had the pleasure of speaking with a partner at an LA law firm last year. She represented some pretty famous people in Hollywood in some major cases. What I got from her was this:

1) Most work in entertainment law is no different than work in any other corporate law, you're dealing with contracts and breaches and intellectual property disputes all the time, it's just that the subject matter you're dealing with is movies or TV shows or film. A lot of the work a lot of the time is the same, you're doing a lot of legal work and pandering to clients in order to keep them. The only real difference is just in who your clients are.

2) It depends entirely on what kind of connections you have. This is why there's a lot of "go to the best law school" sentiment about it, because it's true, though even that doesn't guarantee you a foot in the door. It's also why there's some (small) chance of breaking in from UCLA or USC, because you have access to those networks and you're local to the industry so you can network while you're in school.

3) Everyone wants to work in entertainment law, and there aren't an infinite number of jobs there, so don't get your hopes up too much.

[Bigsby]

So, from what I am gathering, is that it's all about your contacts you make for post-grad and meeting the right people. To do so, you need to go to a good law school. I am quite ashamed of my 165 but if I bring it up to a 170-175 and apply ED, will I still have a shot? I am within their GPA range for sure (approximately 75% but a little lower?) but, with a better LSAT score, do I have a shot?

I am also looking into the other options mentioned below.

Thank you all for all the kind feedback. I knew EL was hard to break into and I figure I should go to a great law school regardless just in case (or when, haha) things don't work out

[Columbia Law]

3) Everyone wants to work in entertainment law, and there aren't an infinite number of jobs there, so don't get your hopes up too much.

WRONG. The implication in the OP is correct. People don't really want to work in entertainment law. Who would want to sip lattes flying around the world to represent celebrity clients and pop models and bottles ALL NIGHT LONG?

[Sentry]

Common sense would tell you to go to a school with a great film/ music program (UCLA, USC, NYU). However, people are going to tell you to go to the highest-ranked school possible, and they are probably right.

While there are schools that will really push their entertainment law focus, and available number of entertainment industry-related classes, this really doesn't matter all that much.

You are largely trained as an entertainment lawyer post-graduation in the first five years of your job, not in law school. The higher-ranked law school you attend, the better the prospective employers that will hire you which have an entertainment law focus. If you'd like verification, look at very prestigous firms which work in entertainment law and you will see very strong representation from most of the top law schools there.

If you get into a couple top schools, you will then want to look at alumni networks and music/film-industry-related programs. I'm guessing NYU has the most entertainment law connections of any top-14 law school (as their film program is second to only USC in terms of prestige and connections, but that is just a guess).

Here at Chicago Law we have some good alumni including Harvey Levin (Creator/Host of TMZ, the Peoples' Court, Celebrity Justice, etc.) and Adam Silver (NBA deputy commish/ head of business operations). I'm guessing other T6 schools have similarly strong entertainment-related alumni bases.

We need Adam Silver to take over. Can't have some good for nothing CLS grad running the NBA!

[QuailMan]

This has probably been implied but from what I've gathered, breaking into "entertainment law" fields (and by that I mean the real flashy, big time money, representing famous people kind of stuff) is equally difficult to actually becoming a professional athlete or entertainment star. Yes, it takes a lot of talent and probably a big name law school, but there is also a ton of luck involved.

Its a great goal, but if its the ONLY thing you could possibly see yourself doing as a lawyer, you might want to think about this decision a little more.

[liberalelite]

Hey everyone,

My numbers are a 3.7x GPA (will boost to 3.8x following the conclusion of this last semester at college) with a 165 LSAT. I am retaking my LSAT in June and can confidently say I will break 170. Regardless of this, I really want to go into entertainment law, specifically music would be nice. I know that asking 'is there really any money in this?' is kind of a silly question because hard times have seem to fallen on just about everyone, not to mention music, on top of law, is extremely hard to break into.

However I have a love for music (an understatement for sure), am extremely knowledgeable the technical/theoretical aspects, and am an advanced guitarist. While I'm sure this means jack shit, I was just wondering if going for Entertainment Law for music is kind of silly (I am shooting to attend a school in NY)...I am shooting for NYU upon retaking the LSAT and the other top NY schools but am also applying to Cardozo as I hear they also have a good entertainment program and I can most likely get money to go there which would be a blessing.

I was wondering if anyone had any insight into how to break into entertainment law, and what schools to recommend, etc. I am assuming that, while of course name and rank matter, you need some extra personality traits or expertise to succeed in Entertainment...but I guess you can say that about anything really.

And trust me, I know I'm not going to be living some cliche dream of being Motley Crue's entertainment lawyer and going out on tour and rocking the world. That's silly. I love music and I wanna be a lawyer. That's all.

Thank you so much!!!

P.S. Does your intent to study less populated fields such as Entertainment Law give you a boost in acceptance when Adcomm's are looking at your application? Just wondering, thank you!

Don't waste your time.

I mean, I could easily do entertainment law because I have connections through my wealthy family, but as a commoner, your chances of success in "entertainment law" is as much as you winning the lottery.

[crit_racer]

My cousin is in music entertainment law at one of the more prominent LA firms. She didn't have any connections to the industry. She went to Fordham, worked at some biglaw firm for a few years in NY, and then moved out to LA for hubby and landed this gig.

You can absolutely do it. It's not like trying to become an astronaut or something...

EDIT: She did work in house at Sony first, so that was kind of a segway of sorts I suppose. I'm sure you can find a back door if you have your heart set on it.

[chasgoose]

Another thing to think about if you really want to do entertainment law is to go out to LA (preferable to NYC) and get a mailroom/assistant job at a major agency/management firm. If you succeed there you will develop connections with the agents/managers who work with these entertainment lawyers on a daily basis (because they share clients) and also with the assistants further along in their careers, some of whom will have clients of their own upon graduation. Yes, its mindless grueling work 40-60 hour weeks plus being on call at all times for about 20-40k a year, but it really will give you the in that you need when you go looking for jobs at these firms (which as mentioned above are very closed off and hard to access). There aren't that many people coming out of top law schools that have worked in the entertainment industry as most of those who succeed stay and most of those who flame out aren't going to get into a top law school.

[Fark-o-vision]

OP sounds like he/she wants to really manage bands. Go to the cheapest law school possible and stay hip to the new generation, d00d.

[Bigsby]

I definitely don't wanna be a band manager hahaha. Honestly, as I said before, I'm not even considering having the 'partying with the band on tour' lifestyle. I think that's a dream that, as someone put it out, requires just as much luck as breaking into the music industry itself. I'm not so naiive. I would just like to, preferably, be around music/entertainment-related environments. I don't care if that just means that "Lehman Brothers" is changed to "Warner Brothers" in a contract. I don't mind at all doing something like that for a while and then (trying) to work myself up to "bigger leagues". I'm very motivated and will do all in my power to do so.

There are other forms of law I would be very interested in well, so this isn't end-all be-all. I most certainly have my heart set on being a lawyer, regardless of Entertainment Law. I'm just looking for some guidance as to how to set myself from the crowd. So far all the replies have been absolutely great. If anyone has anymore advice or experience in Entertainment Law, please feel free to share.

[ScaredWorkedBored]

It's actually harder to break into big-time entertainment representation than it is to break into performing it. There are far fewer positions and the careers are longer. There might be ~2000 NFL players on roster/IR/practice squad in a given year, but a lot of them (and almost all the big earners) are represented by the same agencies.

I wouldn't bother with the mailroom route unless you are independently wealthy. You will not be paid a living wage for Los Angeles. When you factor in the hours abuses and unpaid overtime and non-reimbursed expenses, you won't be earning minimum wage either. You'll be grossing at best $600 a week at a major agency and a car (and everything that goes with that in LA) is mandatory. You can read through Deadline Hollywood's stories & comments on the WME merger and the salary cuts for assistants that went with that. It's not survivable even if you don't owe loan payments. You have to be rich.

The reason "who you know" is so important is that this is the ultimate eat what you kill business. Agents get %, lawyers get hourly rates off of work. No clients, no food. And you need multiple clients to eat because unless they are A-list, they are earning <$100,000 a year and probably not working every year. This doesn't go away at the bigger shops, by the way - you still need to justify your existence or you could be out the door because the boss wants to eat too.

The stable entertainment work is all either at large law firms that represent corporations or in-house at production companies. But that's strict corporate law with the usual entry track. Work at a firm that does that work for several years, go in-house if there is an opening. Not exactly an easy track, but it's a good deal more realistic than setting out to become a talent-side person.

Oh, and as far as representation goes - lawyers are not agents are not managers in California. If you forget which one you actually are, you can get in tremendous amounts of trouble.

[predent/prelaw]

It's actually harder to break into big-time entertainment representation than it is to break into performing it. There are far fewer positions and the careers are longer. There might be ~2000 NFL players on roster/IR/practice squad in a given year, but a lot of them (and almost all the big earners) are represented by the same agencies.

I wouldn't bother with the mailroom route unless you are independently wealthy. You will not be paid a living wage for Los Angeles. When you factor in the hours abuses and unpaid overtime and non-reimbursed expenses, you won't be earning minimum wage either. You'll be grossing at best $600 a week at a major agency and a car (and everything that goes with that in LA) is mandatory. You can read through Deadline Hollywood's stories & comments on the WME merger and the salary cuts for assistants that went with that. It's not survivable even if you don't owe loan payments. You have to be rich.

The reason "who you know" is so important is that this is the ultimate eat what you kill business. Agents get %, lawyers get hourly rates off of work. No clients, no food. And you need multiple clients to eat because unless they are A-list, they are earning <$100,000 a year and probably not working every year. This doesn't go away at the bigger shops, by the way - you still need to justify your existence or you could be out the door because the boss wants to eat too.

The stable entertainment work is all either at large law firms that represent corporations or in-house at production companies. But that's strict corporate law with the usual entry track. Work at a firm that does that work for several years, go in-house if there is an opening. Not exactly an easy track, but it's a good deal more realistic than setting out to become a talent-side person.

Oh, and as far as representation goes - lawyers are not agents are not managers in California. If you forget which one you actually are, you can get in tremendous amounts of trouble.

This is wrong while there are a plethora of Dartmouth undergrads at CAA and WME there are also lots of Kansas/Iowa etc. state grads moonlight bartending on the side to make it. I believe it was UTA that had separate parking garage for the assistants/mailroom's since they did not want the hondas/beaters next to the agents black Mercedes. So no you do not have to be rich to do it you have to have people/hustle skills. Also JDs from both UCLA and USC will get your foot in the door along with networking of course. Also CAA now physically makes you leave so you cannot get overtime.... The real question is do you want to work on pointless documents all day or put your people skillzz to good use? Also the mailroom/agencies are like the big four(as in accounting) of hollywood they make/groom people who will one day run disney/viacom/run studios.

[Wade LeBosh]

.