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Do HYS law schools favor people from their own UG??
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:15 pm
by ckdgusdl88
I have noticed that at HLS, people who went to H UG substantially outnumber people who went to Y UG.
The reverse is true for YLS.
In both programs, H and Y UGs are the top two represented schools.
I haven't been able to acquire similar data for S.
Is this pattern the result of "favoritism" on the part of LS adcoms for their own UGs, or is this just because H and Y UG graduates just love their alma mator so much?
Re: Do HYS law schools favor people from their own UG??
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:16 pm
by 2014
Short answer: No
Long answer: Maybe a little
Re: Do HYS law schools favor people from their own UG??
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:18 pm
by ckdgusdl88
But Yale UG people outnumber Harvard UG people at YLS, even though Yale UG is smaller than Harvard's!
Re: Do HYS law schools favor people from their own UG??
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:19 pm
by fugitivejammer
prolly a bit a both, but i'm pretty sure HYP UGs get a bit more favoritism for the HY law schools. this is demonstrated by the slightly laxed GPA standards they impose upon such students (of which i keep hearing about constantly on TLS).
Re: Do HYS law schools favor people from their own UG??
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:20 pm
by neonx
Yes. Anecdotal.
Re: Do HYS law schools favor people from their own UG??
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:22 pm
by whymeohgodno
I know someone with a 177/4.0 from Yale UG who got rejected from Yale...
Re: Do HYS law schools favor people from their own UG??
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:23 pm
by fugitivejammer
i also think that since the schools r huge rivals, a lot of students who end up getting in to those schools will more likely choose their alma mater. i've heard stories on decisions being made like this, so apparently it makes a big enough diff to some students. that probably accounts for some of the skewness that ur talkin of
Re: Do HYS law schools favor people from their own UG??
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:24 pm
by fugitivejammer
whymeohgodno wrote:I know someone with a 177/4.0 from Yale UG who got rejected from Yale...
Fail
Re: Do HYS law schools favor people from their own UG??
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:34 pm
by im_blue
fugitivejammer wrote:i also think that since the schools r huge rivals, a lot of students who end up getting in to those schools will more likely choose their alma mater. i've heard stories on decisions being made like this, so apparently it makes a big enough diff to some students. that probably accounts for some of the skewness that ur talkin of
You, sir, have the boorish manners of a Yalie!
Re: Do HYS law schools favor people from their own UG??
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:35 pm
by Hattori Hanzo
neonx wrote:Yes. Anecdotal.
Re: Do HYS law schools favor people from their own UG??
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:41 pm
by Na_Swatch
The answer is Yes and its not just anecdotal.
H UG has a law school application chart (internally used) for applicants to HLS and it consistently shows that you don't need as good numbers as other applicants to have very good odds of admittance (say a 3.85, 173 or a 3.9, 170 H applicant is equivalent to a 3.9, 173 regular)
Re: Do HYS law schools favor people from their own UG??
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:42 pm
by whymeohgodno
Na_Swatch wrote:The answer is Yes and its not just anecdotal.
H UG has a law school application chart (internally used) for applicants to HLS and it consistently shows that you don't need as good numbers as other applicants to have very good odds of admittance (say a 3.85, 173 or a 3.9, 170 H applicant is equivalent to a 3.9, 173 regular)
Source?
Re: Do HYS law schools favor people from their own UG??
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:50 pm
by s0ph1e2007
fugitivejammer wrote:prolly a bit a both, but i'm pretty sure HYP UGs get a bit more favoritism for the HY law schools. this is demonstrated by the slightly laxed GPA standards they impose upon such students (of which i keep hearing about constantly on TLS).
ugh
no
I mean yes they do like their undergrads (not too much though) but the grade thing has to do with it being a very very difficult school where an equally good performance means a lower GPA than another school.
This is what HYS say, so it's not just random conjecture.
Re: Do HYS law schools favor people from their own UG??
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:54 pm
by iYale
Perhaps they assume that people who attend HYS UG are of a better stock academically and are better prepared than their counterparts. But honestly I can't see them sacrificing an academic all star elsewhere for an underachieving HYS undergrad. I could be wrong though.
Re: Do HYS law schools favor people from their own UG??
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:57 pm
by neonx
Na_Swatch wrote:The answer is Yes and its not just anecdotal.
H UG has a law school application chart (internally used) for applicants to HLS and it consistently shows that you don't need as good numbers as other applicants to have very good odds of admittance (say a 3.85, 173 or a 3.9, 170 H applicant is equivalent to a 3.9, 173 regular)
Nevermind.
Re: Do HYS law schools favor people from their own UG??
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:59 pm
by im_blue
whymeohgodno wrote:Na_Swatch wrote:The answer is Yes and its not just anecdotal.
H UG has a law school application chart (internally used) for applicants to HLS and it consistently shows that you don't need as good numbers as other applicants to have very good odds of admittance (say a 3.85, 173 or a 3.9, 170 H applicant is equivalent to a 3.9, 173 regular)
Source?
Take a look at LSN. HY accept lots of 3.9+/170-171 types from HYP, but others typically need 172-173 to be competitive.
Re: Do HYS law schools favor people from their own UG??
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:59 pm
by Na_Swatch
neonx wrote:Na_Swatch wrote:The answer is Yes and its not just anecdotal.
H UG has a law school application chart (internally used) for applicants to HLS and it consistently shows that you don't need as good numbers as other applicants to have very good odds of admittance (say a 3.85, 173 or a 3.9, 170 H applicant is equivalent to a 3.9, 173 regular)
Please, as an undergrad, I've seen these the Harvard "grids." There isn't much of a difference.
Well depends on your perspective: a 3.9, 170 H applicant being equal to a 3.9, 173 isn't much of a difference on the face of it, but if you consider how many applicants are bunched within that number range it becomes pretty substantial.
Re: Do HYS law schools favor people from their own UG??
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:03 pm
by vanwinkle
As a tiebreaker, yes. Ivies seem to prefer people from Ivies, and that's true of their own as well as other Ivy schools. H will favor someone from HYP over someone from Podunk U, as a tiebreaker.
There's no tie to break, though, if the HYP student has lower numbers. If both are 3.8x/170 they'll prefer the Ivy, so Ivies might get the bubble spots, but if the HYP kid is 3.4/166, being from HYP won't matter a lick, he's out on numbers before they even look at where he went.
Re: Do HYS law schools favor people from their own UG??
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:05 pm
by neonx
vanwinkle wrote:As a tiebreaker, yes. Ivies seem to prefer people from Ivies, and that's true of their own as well as other Ivy schools. H will favor someone from HYP over someone from Podunk U, as a tiebreaker.
There's no tie to break, though, if the HYP student has lower numbers. If both are 3.8x/170 they'll prefer the Ivy, so Ivies might get the bubble spots, but if the HYP kid is 3.4/166, being from HYP won't matter a lick, he's out on numbers before they even look at where he went.
This.
Re: Do HYS law schools favor people from their own UG??
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:08 pm
by Na_Swatch
vanwinkle wrote:As a tiebreaker, yes. Ivies seem to prefer people from Ivies, and that's true of their own as well as other Ivy schools. H will favor someone from HYP over someone from Podunk U, as a tiebreaker.
There's no tie to break, though, if the HYP student has lower numbers. If both are 3.8x/170 they'll prefer the Ivy, so Ivies might get the bubble spots, but if the HYP kid is 3.4/166, being from HYP won't matter a lick, he's out on numbers before they even look at where he went.
Huh, usually your right Vanwinkle, but in the specific case of H UG -> HLS it acts as
more than a tiebreaker, which is why I think it counts as a "substantial difference."
However, for say P -> HLS it probably falls closer to the tiebreaker category.
Re: Do HYS law schools favor people from their own UG??
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:44 pm
by vanwinkle
Na_Swatch wrote:vanwinkle wrote:As a tiebreaker, yes. Ivies seem to prefer people from Ivies, and that's true of their own as well as other Ivy schools. H will favor someone from HYP over someone from Podunk U, as a tiebreaker.
There's no tie to break, though, if the HYP student has lower numbers. If both are 3.8x/170 they'll prefer the Ivy, so Ivies might get the bubble spots, but if the HYP kid is 3.4/166, being from HYP won't matter a lick, he's out on numbers before they even look at where he went.
Huh, usually your right Vanwinkle, but in the specific case of H UG -> HLS it acts as
more than a tiebreaker, which is why I think it counts as a "substantial difference."
However, for say P -> HLS it probably falls closer to the tiebreaker category.
Are you saying H prefers its own over other Ivies, or that H gives its own a boost? I'd believe the former, but the latter makes me skeptical. However, I have no proof either way on this particular narrow point, so I must yield.
Re: Do HYS law schools favor people from their own UG??
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:54 pm
by Na_Swatch
vanwinkle wrote:Na_Swatch wrote:vanwinkle wrote:As a tiebreaker, yes. Ivies seem to prefer people from Ivies, and that's true of their own as well as other Ivy schools. H will favor someone from HYP over someone from Podunk U, as a tiebreaker.
There's no tie to break, though, if the HYP student has lower numbers. If both are 3.8x/170 they'll prefer the Ivy, so Ivies might get the bubble spots, but if the HYP kid is 3.4/166, being from HYP won't matter a lick, he's out on numbers before they even look at where he went.
Huh, usually your right Vanwinkle, but in the specific case of H UG -> HLS it acts as
more than a tiebreaker, which is why I think it counts as a "substantial difference."
However, for say P -> HLS it probably falls closer to the tiebreaker category.
Are you saying H prefers its own over other Ivies, or that H gives its own a boost? I'd believe the former, but the latter makes me skeptical.
Actually those are basically the same thing (Say if H is preferred out of HYP which receives a slight boost compared to rest = H gives its own a boost).
But anyways, talking to an actual H UG who was applying last cycle with me, they said that the actual house charts show that you can miss medians a bit and still have an equivalent shot as those outside H at the medians (like the example i was talking about).
Re: Do HYS law schools favor people from their own UG??
Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:59 pm
by vanwinkle
Na_Swatch wrote:Actually those are basically the same thing (Say if H is preferred out of HYP which receives a slight boost compared to rest = H gives its own a boost).
Just to nitpick, tiebreaker priority and boost are not the same.
1) If H is preferred over YP only in a tiebreaker sense, then this will always happen:
3.9/170@H > 3.9/170@P > 3.9/170@State > 3.8/169@H
The 3.8/169 from H is winning tiebreakers but not getting a boost, so he still loses out.
2) If H is given a boost over others, then this might happen:
3.9/170@H > 3.8/169@H > 3.9/170@P > 3.9/170@State
Here the 3.8/169 from H is actually getting a boost that puts him over people with better numbers.
Na_Swatch wrote:But anyways, talking to an actual H UG who was applying last cycle with me, they said that the actual house charts show that you can miss medians a bit and still have an equivalent shot as those outside H at the medians (like the example i was talking about).
This sounds like you're saying scenario #2 above is true. I haven't personally heard of this happening, but I've also got no evidence to the contrary. It would also have to be limited in application even if it were true; they couldn't boost too many folks without it impacting their medians, especially since they have to save space under median for any diversity admits they want to make.