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In May 2009 I did community service on a possession of paraphernalia charge and it was expunged in Jan. 2010. I was told this record remains only in the booklet of the officer who issued it, and no where else. The plea was "other plea," not "guilty" or "no contest", and the final status before expungement was nolle prosequi.

In Feb. 2010 I got another one, same charge, and did community service. The plea is also "other plea," not "guilty" or "no contest." It currently sits on the STET docket and is elegible for expungement once I petition for nol pros and expungement.

Should I disclose the latter, both, or neither? Both are misdemeanors, neither of which I have been convicted, only charged.

You should find the exact language in the applications of the schools you want to apply to and ask a lawyer.

Disclose because, if you don't, it may come back to haunt you when seeking C&F clearance for any state bar exam. Then you might have to explain not only the charges & penalties, but also your failure to disclose when applying to law school.

Most schools want full disclosure, which would include both of your incidents.

PinkFloydPerson wrote:In May 2009 I did community service on a possession of paraphernalia charge and it was expunged in Jan. 2010. I was told this record remains only in the booklet of the officer who issued it, and no where else. The plea was "other plea," not "guilty" or "no contest", and the final status before expungement was nolle prosequi.

In Feb. 2010 I got another one, same charge, and did community service. The plea is also "other plea," not "guilty" or "no contest." It currently sits on the STET docket and is elegible for expungement once I petition for nol pros and expungement.

Should I disclose the latter, both, or neither? Both are misdemeanors, neither of which I have been convicted, only charged.

I think that while planning on becoming a lawyer, PinkFloydGuy; you might want to consider not getting yourself comfortably numb all the damn time. Its more fun for the clients when your lawyer isn't burned..

Anyway, as a protective measure, I'd probably disclose them at the off chance that it ever pops up on your C&F check for the Bar. The fact that you got two bullshit possession charges is unlikely to screw your chances at admission to a law school. However, the fact that you failed to disclose it to your potential school and got caught doing so by the bar examiners is a much bigger deal.

The bar examiners don't care about most lesser charges/convictions, they care about an applicant's failure to fully disclose. The point is not to see how carefully you can read the text of the disclosure statement and disclose as little as possible. The point is to be honest and forward about your past issues and demonstrate that you a) take the process and system seriously; b) intend to be an honest attorney; and c) can be trusted.

I appreciate your advice, and you are right, I quit the bullsh*t quite some time ago when I started studying for the LSAT.

PinkFloydPerson wrote:I appreciate your advice, and you are right, I quit the bullsh*t quite some time ago when I started studying for the LSAT.

Good for you. It sounds corny, but it bothers the shit out of me when lawyers run around breaking laws...

I would urge you toward full disclosure. Just state that you were charged and that the charge was disposed of by XYZ means and your record expunged. Then you cover yourself and you get it all out in the open. No one can ever fault you for that.

PinkFloydPerson wrote:I appreciate your advice, and you are right, I quit the bullsh*t quite some time ago when I started studying for the LSAT.

Your definition of "some time ago" may be in question since your last charge was in February. Distance between you and the behavior is an important factor. A guy with a felony 10 years ago may be looked upon more favorably than someone caught with a pipe 3 months ago.

On the other hand, I'm not judging you, I had a lot to disclose on my application. But seriously, quit getting in trouble, and disclose everything.

rdcws000 wrote:

PinkFloydPerson wrote:I appreciate your advice, and you are right, I quit the bullsh*t quite some time ago when I started studying for the LSAT.

Your definition of "some time ago" may be in question since your last charge was in February. Distance between you and the behavior is an important factor. A guy with a felony 10 years ago may be looked upon more favorably than someone caught with a pipe 3 months ago.

On the other hand, I'm not judging you, I had a lot to disclose on my application. But seriously, quit getting in trouble, and disclose everything.

Dude, the best joints are those rolled with practice lsats. Trust me.

Would you be willing to gamble $150,000 on there not being a single recorded instance of this anywhere that a law school or a C&F board can find?

You can be pretty certain that the police department on that first one still has a record of you. Court orders have nothing to do with police records. Now, sometimes the police will independently destroy/purge records of closed, minor shit for their own ease of record keeping, but not after a year. The law school won't look for this to verify your claims about not having an arrest/charge, but the bar will. Not disclosing if asked would be...unwise.

Also, do stay off the dope. You have two arrests for drugs in the last two years; getting more during law school isn't going to be helpful to you.

username99 wrote:

rdcws000 wrote:

PinkFloydPerson wrote:I appreciate your advice, and you are right, I quit the bullsh*t quite some time ago when I started studying for the LSAT.

Your definition of "some time ago" may be in question since your last charge was in February. Distance between you and the behavior is an important factor. A guy with a felony 10 years ago may be looked upon more favorably than someone caught with a pipe 3 months ago.

On the other hand, I'm not judging you, I had a lot to disclose on my application. But seriously, quit getting in trouble, and disclose everything.

Dude, the best joints are those rolled with practice lsats. Trust me.

lol

ScaredWorkedBored wrote:You can be pretty certain that the police department on that first one still has a record of you. Court orders have nothing to do with police records.

What are you basing this on? Expunction statutes vary from state to state, and court orders, depending on those statutes, can have everything to do with police records.

OP, disclose whatever the application asks you to. Ask your attorney if you have any questions, and look into your state bar's character and fitness requirements. And stop smoking weed.

Marionberry wrote:

ScaredWorkedBored wrote:You can be pretty certain that the police department on that first one still has a record of you. Court orders have nothing to do with police records.

What are you basing this on? Expunction statutes vary from state to state, and court orders, depending on those statutes, can have everything to do with police records.

Of course it varies, but there's a big difference between court records and police records. Note that the OP was told that police records of the first one still exist despite the expungement.

People seriously overestimate the scope, reach and use of expungement precisely because it isn't uniform between jurisdictions. If someone is not explicitly told that "this order applies to the police department" or "take a copy of this order to the police department," there's no reason to believe that the police actually destroyed their stuff or told the FBI to alter their stuff.

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Just answer the question on the application truthfully. It really depends on the situation and what the school is asking you. What do you mean by a very minor citation? Without knowing what it is you may not need to disclose it, but if it is extremely minor as you say, then it shouldn't have any implication on your application if you just disclose it.

reasonable_man wrote:

PinkFloydPerson wrote:In May 2009 I did community service on a possession of paraphernalia charge and it was expunged in Jan. 2010. I was told this record remains only in the booklet of the officer who issued it, and no where else. The plea was "other plea," not "guilty" or "no contest", and the final status before expungement was nolle prosequi.

In Feb. 2010 I got another one, same charge, and did community service. The plea is also "other plea," not "guilty" or "no contest." It currently sits on the STET docket and is elegible for expungement once I petition for nol pros and expungement.

Should I disclose the latter, both, or neither? Both are misdemeanors, neither of which I have been convicted, only charged.

I think that while planning on becoming a lawyer, PinkFloydGuy; you might want to consider not getting yourself comfortably numb all the damn time. Its more fun for the clients when your lawyer isn't burned..

Anyway, as a protective measure, I'd probably disclose them at the off chance that it ever pops up on your C&F check for the Bar. The fact that you got two bullshit possession charges is unlikely to screw your chances at admission to a law school. However, the fact that you failed to disclose it to your potential school and got caught doing so by the bar examiners is a much bigger deal.

The bar examiners don't care about most lesser charges/convictions, they care about an applicant's failure to fully disclose. The point is not to see how carefully you can read the text of the disclosure statement and disclose as little as possible. The point is to be honest and forward about your past issues and demonstrate that you a) take the process and system seriously; b) intend to be an honest attorney; and c) can be trusted.

This post is excellent.

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letsgetitstarted wrote:It was a citation for misdemeanor battery based on politically motivated lies. The police were not present but merely cited everyone they found at the scene. There was shoving involved, nothing more, no injuries, no nothing.

I did absolutely nothing wrong, and the system verified that by not even filing any charges. It was obvious the witness testimony made no sense. Why disclose if it isn't asked and I did nothing wrong?

Whether or not this was a lie, it sounds like bullshit. Find a better way to explain it on the applications, that's or sure.