Easiest Law School out there in America Forum

OperaAttorney · Post by **OperaAttorney** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:17 am

Pithy, I've just read back through your posts and I'm just disappointed that you can't separate intentionally anti-URM/AA comments from something completely benign and totally unoffensive. I also think that in this post your attitude comes across as so self-righteous and rude and I see nothing to justify this.

By the way, this board is politer than every other board out there in a way that is probably not reflective of the actual law profession. There is a difference between not compromising on your principles and just being incredibly oversensitive (with an attitude).

Pithy may be oversensitive, yet I sense no attitude/rudeness in his post. (For the record, I disagree with the tenor of his post.) It is quite possible, however, to point out erroneous reasoning w/o resorting to condescension, lollypotter.

lollypotter · Post by **lollypotter** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:38 am

lolz

You are right about the link. I know what you mean about LSD - it has a really lovely vibe to it. But while it is friendlier, I'm not sure it's politer. On AA issues it's definitely better because it more successfully contains it but on chances issues etc I'm not sure that you don't get a warmer reception on TLS. Not that LSD isn't warm but people here seem more optimistic. Some of the characters on LSD kill me though and I sometimes wish I could revive some amazing threads. I post here more but lurk much more (in hysterics) there.

Xoxo is it's own fun although I've had some friends defend it to me recently and some of their arguments do have merit.

Opera

It's possible of course...

Once again, I assume your gaffe is due to ignorance rather than malice. If I didn't know better, I would think that the ill-informed attitudes about minorities in legal education on this board are coming straight from the top.

Learning from the master, clearly. I think it is patronizing, uncalled for and rude. Ken has intervened in the past to stop xoxo type anti-AA trolling and I'm frankly baffled at how pithy took such offence from his post.

lolz987 · Post by **lolz987** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:42 am

I'm frankly baffled at how pithy took such offence from his post.

As am I. His/her rant was uncalled for.

DAC · Post by **DAC** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:51 am

Dear Ken,

I assume from the stab at humor, you are not aware that Southern University is a well-known historically black college. Started in the Jim Crowe era to give promising young blacks a fair shake at a legal education, it may not have the highest LSAT's and GPA's but deserves a bit more respect than you have accorded it. Once again, I assume your gaffe is due to ignorance rather than malice. If I didn't know better, I would think that the ill-informed attitudes about minorities in legal education on this board are coming straight from the top.

URM?

OperaAttorney · Post by **OperaAttorney** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:52 am

To lolly:

OK. I think I understand now. LOL

Thanks.

lolz987 · Post by **lolz987** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:57 am

Ken has intervened in the past to stop xoxo type anti-AA trolling and I'm frankly baffled at how pithy took such offence from his post.

Ditto. Ken is, by far, the last person I would ever accuse of spouting racist and/or anti-AA rhetoric. He's way too cool for that.

M20009 · Post by **M20009** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:23 am

I know what you mean about LSD - it has a really lovely vibe to it.

You're damn right it has a good vibe, when taken in small doses of course.

sockpuppet · Post by **sockpuppet** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:09 pm

escobarsonlam · Post by **escobarsonlam** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:42 pm

no love for the other 4 schools? we defended southern university's honor. since i live in va and know somone who went to app state i'll say that the school is recently accredited and is a fine establishment especially for those in the southwestern va area. it gives locals a chance to practice law and serve their local communities who otherwise would not have such an opportunity. the fact that you neglected to to mention this point makes you a bad person ken. i am offended and since i'm asian you are obviously a racist with some type of vendetta against asians and pacific islanders. let's not forget i'm also heterosexual so you're a heterophobe to boot.

The Agitator · Post by **The Agitator** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:47 pm

There is no comparison at all between a school that accepts 2/3 of all applicants and one that takes less than 1/3.

What does the acceptance and yield numbers prove? What if the applicant pool is extremely poor compared with Emory's? What if it has such a high yield rate because most of the students attending didn't even gain entrance into other schools and so it's their only option?

orangeswarm · Post by **orangeswarm** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:48 pm

There is no comparison at all between a school that accepts 2/3 of all applicants and one that takes less than 1/3. Southern's acceptance rate is about the same as Emory's

EDIT: the agitator is too quick for me

M20009 · Post by **M20009** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:50 pm

Yeah!

neskerdoo · Post by **neskerdoo** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:26 pm

Pithy may seem a little touchy, but Ken's post was pretty smug and ill considered. The "academic powerhouse" comment, and lumping Southern University in with schools like Cooley as "easy to get into" both seem a bit ignorant.

I agree with the puppetmaster.... As soon as I read Ken's post, I winced and started thinking about a response. Then I read pithy's response and winced because I knew what the reaction was going to be and that the argument may have been lost before it began... I started thinking about another response and then I read Sifl and Olly's post and realized that that is what I was thinking, though without all the fancy stats... Coming down on Southern with snarky remarks is a pretty low blow...

sockpuppet · Post by **sockpuppet** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:29 pm

M20009 · Post by **M20009** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:43 pm

Coming down on Southern with snarky remarks is a pretty low blow...

I think coming down on any law school is somewhat harsh, but we've all been guilty of it. All serve a purpose and make legal education available to many people who would otherwise be shut out. I don't think a school's status as a historically-black college or one that was founded during a certain period makes it exempt from wisecracks. So yeah, I'm talking out both sides of my mouth. I plan to use my JD to be a politician, by the way.

escobarsonlam · Post by **escobarsonlam** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:08 pm

I think coming down on any law school is somewhat harsh, but we've all been guilty of it. All serve a purpose and make legal education available to many people who would otherwise be shut out. I don't think a school's status as a historically-black college or one that was founded during a certain period makes it exempt from wisecracks. So yeah, I'm talking out both sides of my mouth. I plan to use my JD to be a politician, by the way.

i completely agree. we make jokes about everyone's school on here. we had a whole discussion on why some top schools are overrated where people were not even close to joking. some people take offense or should i say are more offensive about certain things than others. Ken just gave someone a chance to jump on their trusty soap box.

lollypotter · Post by **lollypotter** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:26 pm

This is where I think two separate issues are being entwined and it's probably better to keep them separate. One is about the appropriateness of mocking a school with a low admit profile. The second is about... racism? I'm not even sure.

All five schools come in with the lowest numbers. Sockpuppeteer and esco, you paint a really great picture of how these schools can be more than just numbers, and give opportunities to practice law to those who might otherwise not have the opportunity. So I feel like it's totally fine to have a problem with Ken's post ( though it was a joke.

The "academic powerhouse" comment, and lumping Southern University in with schools like Cooley

Coming down on Southern with snarky remarks is a pretty low blow...

But this doesn't seem to be your problem. Rather that seems to be that Southern was included. Southern was included on the basis of numbers, which you argue do not paint the full picture. Fine. But they don't paint the full picture at Cooley or App State either. Yes, a lot of the time refusing to acknowledge differences that exist between communities and their likely consequences is racially ignorant and is a cover for prejudice BUT this, to me, needs a real overreaction to get there. The conversation wasn't even about race, wasn't even tangentially concerned with it and I just hate the feeling that we can't do this conversation without shouting. Sometimes elitism is just elitism and, fine, attack it, and point out the racial elements to issues but I don't think you can do it from this 'racial moral high ground' when it's kinda unreasonable to expect everyone to have picked up the racial undertones (which I didn't catch, I confess) and when the person involved would be fairly receptive to conversation (disclaimer: I think Ken is great).

This just really bugs me. This is not a criticism or anything, I think I just feel the same kind of frustration that some of you felt but from the other side. This just could have gone somewhere better.

TheGreatNorthwest · Post by **TheGreatNorthwest** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:27 pm

As the Author of this post "Just for fun, what do you think are the top 5 easiest law schools in the USA?". My intent was to determine what the members of this forum consider easy law schools. Anyone can go to http://officialguide.lsac.org/UGPASearc ... SidString= type in your UGPA & LSAT score and get data on which is easiest.

The first three words are "Just for fun". All of us want an opportunity to get into a Tier 1 law school, learn the law and serve our communities. This has nothing to do with race at all. This isn't 1950. Let us move past that.
Ken provided reasonable, empirical and comparative & reasonable data among law schools as to which may the easiest to get acceptance into. Let us not judge him.

This issue is not whether Southern Law was founded during Jim Crow. But what are their standards today? Instead of accusing others that we have never met, let us work together to help & encourage one another to succeed. There is always room at the top.

neskerdoo · Post by **neskerdoo** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:37 pm

Pithy, I've just read back through your posts and I'm just disappointed that you can't separate intentionally anti-URM/AA comments from something completely benign and totally unoffensive. I also think that in this post your attitude comes across as so self-righteous and rude and I see nothing to justify this.

lollypotter, I apologize for not calling attention to your post in my last one....

"Completely benign and totally unoffensive"? According to you? Where do you get off telling anyone what is or is not offensive? There are clearly people who are either offended by this comment, or who find it otherwise problematic. I also think that in your post your attitude comes across as self-absorbed and short-sighted, and while your lack of knowledge about certain matters may justify this, it's not a good way to explain your faults forever. You don't even give any indication or explanation as to why you are so incensed by pithy's remarks and why he/ she needs to 'get a grip'... Bottom line, America: maybe you should take a break from the sass and start thinking before you speak or type...

I am sure you would have told people to keep their mouths shut about those utterly harmless and 100% unobjectionable minstrel shows, too......

P.S: Hitachi, your little comment/ link is the epitome of douche

Edit: lollypotter, I wrote this before I saw your latest. You do a little explaining and such, but i thought I'd leave mine in its entirety, save for a bit of name-calling which I will now redact....

neskerdoo · Post by **neskerdoo** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:48 pm

This isn't 1950. Let us move past that.
Ken provided reasonable, empirical and comparative & reasonable data among law schools as to which may the easiest to get acceptance into. Let us not judge him.

This is not 1950, but we could get farther away from it if people thought about comments they make regarding the outcomes of history... Ken did provide as much, and he provides us with a lot of great stuff. This does not mean that when any of us has an issue with something he says, we should not bring it up and discuss it. Far worse than what Ken said are the posts suggesting we shouldn't and those which further took shots at Southern (Hitachi, especially)...

Most of us probably thought the President was beyond reproach when we were in third grade, too.... grow up....

rhit2004 · Post by **rhit2004** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:53 pm

There is no comparison at all between a school that accepts 2/3 of all applicants and one that takes less than 1/3. Southern's acceptance rate is about the same as Emory's -- not a school anyone here would classify as "easiest in the country."

Acceptance rate is not a fair measure. The 25-75th percentile rankings are a much better indicator of ease of acceptance. Applicants apply to schools they think they have a shot of being admitted to. A 2.98 gpa and 150 LSAT applicant doesn't bother with #4 ranked NYU because they know they have no shot. They might apply to TTT ranked Univ. of Arkansas-Little Rock though because their numbers fall in the 25-75th% range. We can all agree that NYU (21.1% acceptance) is better than UofA (17.7% acceptance) even though the acceptance rates would indicate otherwise. If every applicant automatically applied to all schools yale would have a 0.001% acceptance rate and T4 schools would have 98% acceptance rates (numbers made up to indicate point).

escobarsonlam · Post by **escobarsonlam** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:54 pm

According to you? Where do you get off telling anyone what is or is not offensive? There are clearly people who are either offended by this comment, or who find it otherwise problematic.

I'm sure there are such people. They probably would also be offended if I looked in their general direction.

Pithy could of taken the high road (which he/she has every right not to) and simply pointed out what Southern University is and stands for. But (often myself included) Pithy could not resist the urge to throw a couple zings in there and jump on that pedestal.

Southern University is a well-known historically black college. Started in the Jim Crowe era to give promising young blacks a fair shake at a legal education, it may not have the highest LSAT's and GPA's but deserves a bit more respect than you have accorded it.

The point Pithy tried to make was not to educate because that would be all that was needed to be said.

lollypotter · Post by **lollypotter** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:59 pm

Minstrel shows? Really? You seem to have made a lot of assumptions to get here. Ok I'll bite, what do Ken's post and minstrel shows have in common? Not to be rude but is this even a fruitful comment to get your point across? Is this really the way you want this conversation to go? I really don't agree with minstrel shows...

I'm actually with you up to that point. I originally posted a much longer reply to pithy but edited it as (believe me) it was pretty angry and so I agree it contained very little explanation and if you felt it was rude, I apologize (and to pithy). Obviously I can't tell someone they don't feel offended but I have the right to say that I feel someone's offence is unreasonable, as I still think pithy's was. We can both disagree on that issue but I'm not sure that one must take precedence over the other simply because it is a positive reaction.

neskerdoo · Post by **neskerdoo** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:11 pm

I'm sure there are such people. They probably would also be offended if I looked in their general direction.

escobarsonlam, you are better than this... Are you suggesting there is zero grounds for taking offense to such a comment? Why?

I really don't agree with minstrel shows...

lollypotter, if you hear a knock at the door, get it; the NAACP is coming by to drop off a trophy.....

lollypotter · Post by **lollypotter** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:19 pm

Oh, come on. Seriously.

I keep editing the rude comments out of my post even though I think you are being totally ridiculous.

I didn't find one thing offensive that you did and now, what, I'm under judgment? Geez, what do you want?

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