Top Law Schools

And is arguably just as good as Penn? Or is this just BS? Temple is cheap as hell and in the sixth largest city in the country and seems somewhat appealing if there is any truth to this...

FreddyBigShot wrote:And is arguably just as good as Penn? Or is this just BS? Temple is cheap as hell and in the sixth largest city in the country and seems somewhat appealing if there is any truth to this...

People can say what they want, but you can't throw a rock in this city without hitting a Temple alum. At my firm, there are two partners from Cornell, one from Yale, and about four from Temple.

The "arguably just as good as Penn" line is a joke. I'm sure a Penn grad will have an easier time finding a job in Philly than a Temple grad if s/he wants one, especially in Philly biglaw, it's just that Penn grads are more likely to go for NYC/DC, clerkships, etc.

That said, if you're going to take the risk of going to a school in that range, Temple isn't a terrible choice on account of its cheapness plus the low COL in Philly.

blsingindisguise wrote:The "arguably just as good as Penn" line is a joke. I'm sure a Penn grad will have an easier time finding a job in Philly than a Temple grad if s/he wants one, especially in Philly biglaw, it's just that Penn grads are more likely to go for NYC/DC, clerkships, etc.

I don't think this is true, at least for the top 1/2 or 1/3 at Temple. Lots of Philly employers specifically dislike Penn grads, who have somewhat of a reputation for being high-maintenance and for just using Philly for experience before running off to New York. On the other hand, like the above poster said, you can't throw a rock without hitting a practicing Temple grad.

Long story short: Yes, Temple dominates in Philly. If you get in to both Penn and Temple, Temple will presumably give you a fat amount of money. If you're sure you want to practice in Philadelphia, I'd take a scholarship at Temple over sticker or anywhere close to it at Penn any day.

Sorry man, you're wrong.

Take a look at the website of Morgan Lewis, the largest firm in Philly, and do an attorney search for Temple Law vs. Penn Law.

There are about twice as many Penn grads as there are Temple grads. Temple makes a decent showing, for sure, but Penn destroys them.

Dechert is a little closer -- 65 from Penn vs. 50 from Temple. But Penn still wins. Plus going to Temple means taking a gamble on good grades.

blsingindisguise wrote:Dechert is a little closer -- 65 from Penn vs. 50 from Temple. But Penn still wins. Plus going to Temple means taking a gamble on good grades.

This is true only for biglaw, which isn't something you can count on at either school.

True, but it's something you have a much more realistic shot at from Penn than from Temple.

What kind of offices are you talking about? Government? Small firms? Non-profits? I still doubt that Temple is going to give you a necessarily better shot, though it might be more level.

. . . .

Don't forget about 100 or less of each Penn class remain in Philly, and about 300 or more of each Temple class remain in Philly. Of course you are more likely to run into Temple grads. Outside of big law, there are just not enough number of Penn grads looking for work in other sectors to compare to Temple grads. If you do a per capita comparison I think the story will change. It is like comparing Harvard to Yale by saying there are more Harvard grads in big law so therefore it must dominates Yale.

WITHOUT BIGLAW CONNECTIONS

Top 10% at Temple will open the same doors as Top 60% at Penn IF you have ties that run deeper to Philly then just attending Penn Law.

I know people at both schools and while neither will guarantee employment Penn will make it easier in Philly, NYC, DC...anywhere as long as you have connections to the area.

FreddyBigShot wrote:And is arguably just as good as Penn? Or is this just BS? Temple is cheap as hell and in the sixth largest city in the country and seems somewhat appealing if there is any truth to this...

Temple RULES! GO PHILS!

underachiever wrote:WITHOUT BIGLAW CONNECTIONS

Top 10% at Temple will open the same doors as Top 60% at Penn IF you have ties that run deeper to Philly then just attending Penn Law.

I know people at both schools and while neither will guarantee employment Penn will make it easier in Philly, NYC, DC...anywhere as long as you have connections to the area.

I don't know if it occurred at Temple OCI, but it was definitely true that Philly firms were grilling Penn students on their local connections.

riccardo426 wrote:

underachiever wrote:WITHOUT BIGLAW CONNECTIONS

Top 10% at Temple will open the same doors as Top 60% at Penn IF you have ties that run deeper to Philly then just attending Penn Law.

I know people at both schools and while neither will guarantee employment Penn will make it easier in Philly, NYC, DC...anywhere as long as you have connections to the area.

I don't know if it occurred at Temple OCI, but it was definitely true that Philly firms were grilling Penn students on their local connections.

Probably Penn only, I mean for years Penn students used and abused the Philly market. Taking 1L jobs w/o ever having an interest in returning, lateraling to nyc and dc as soon as they could if they did take a Philly job, or only taking a Philly job b/c they were bottom 1/4 of the class...etc. Now the economy is rough, esp for Philly Biglaw and these firms know they have the power and they wield it in a way I can not say I blame them for.

blsingindisguise wrote: What kind of offices are you talking about? Government? Small firms? Non-profits? I still doubt that Temple is going to give you a necessarily better shot, though it might be more level.

I actually do think that Temple gives you a better shot at local government, small firms, PD's offices, doc review and most nonprofits in the area (with the exception of the prestige whores like the ACLU). Got no data on this, just a personal impression.

johnnyutah wrote:

blsingindisguise wrote: What kind of offices are you talking about? Government? Small firms? Non-profits? I still doubt that Temple is going to give you a necessarily better shot, though it might be more level.

I actually do think that Temple gives you a better shot at local government, small firms, PD's offices, doc review and most nonprofits in the area (with the exception of the prestige whores like the ACLU). Got no data on this, just a personal impression.

Your impression is probably informed by the fact that Penn students are less likely to be APPLYING for those jobs, because they have more and better options in other markets.

blsingindisguise wrote:

johnnyutah wrote:

blsingindisguise wrote: What kind of offices are you talking about? Government? Small firms? Non-profits? I still doubt that Temple is going to give you a necessarily better shot, though it might be more level.

I actually do think that Temple gives you a better shot at local government, small firms, PD's offices, doc review and most nonprofits in the area (with the exception of the prestige whores like the ACLU). Got no data on this, just a personal impression.

Your impression is probably informed by the fact that Penn students are less likely to be APPLYING for those jobs, because they have more and better options in other markets.

No, my impression is informed by the fact that a number of Philadelphia attorneys and employers have told me they are hesitant about hiring Penn students.

johnnyutah wrote:

blsingindisguise wrote: What kind of offices are you talking about? Government? Small firms? Non-profits? I still doubt that Temple is going to give you a necessarily better shot, though it might be more level.

I actually do think that Temple gives you a better shot at local government, small firms, PD's offices, doc review and most nonprofits in the area (with the exception of the prestige whores like the ACLU). Got no data on this, just a personal impression.

I don't get the same impression as a non-law Penn student. Maybe Penn Law is different, but Penn as a university has more power than Temple by a lot.

r6_philly wrote:

johnnyutah wrote:

blsingindisguise wrote: What kind of offices are you talking about? Government? Small firms? Non-profits? I still doubt that Temple is going to give you a necessarily better shot, though it might be more level.

I actually do think that Temple gives you a better shot at local government, small firms, PD's offices, doc review and most nonprofits in the area (with the exception of the prestige whores like the ACLU). Got no data on this, just a personal impression.

I don't get the same impression as a non-law Penn student. Maybe Penn Law is different, but Penn as a university has more power than Temple by a lot.

Maybe you're right. Like I said, it's just a general impression.

johnnyutah wrote: Maybe you're right. Like I said, it's just a general impression.

I have been thinking about this, maybe it's different because I am a native Philadelphian. I don't think the same questions that face many transplants apply to me.

However I have worked at a couple of non-profits in the city, and most of my colleagues were Penn students and grads. It just seem like the Penn name opens more doors. I know from my personal experience that my call back rates increase quite a bit when Penn is at the top of my resume or when I tell people I go to Penn. I am not in the position to judge whether or not it is right, but it's a big part of the benefit you get for going to Penn. BTW I don't know if you get the same job postings as I do, but there are quite a few public sector openings posted every week, you may be interested in some of them?

Is Temple greater than 'Nova?

FreddyBigShot wrote:Is Temple greater than 'Nova?

Yes.

r6_philly wrote:BTW I don't know if you get the same job postings as I do, but there are quite a few public sector openings posted every week, you may be interested in some of them?

What postings you get?