Top Law Schools

justadude55 wrote:hey, i'm applying to law school with an lsat ~170 and a gpa of >3.5 from a t-30 undergrad, but was suspended for a yr for violating a university conduct policy and submitting false evidence aimed at discrediting the other party.

am i sunk with all of the top schools? if i retake the lsat and surpass a 175, will i be able to get into a t-15? if i don't retake, where am i now?

shoop wrote:

justadude55 wrote:hey, i'm applying to law school with an lsat ~170 and a gpa of >3.5 from a t-30 undergrad, but was suspended for a yr for violating a university conduct policy and submitting false evidence aimed at discrediting the other party.

am i sunk with all of the top schools? if i retake the lsat and surpass a 175, will i be able to get into a t-15? if i don't retake, where am i now?

There's really no way to know until you try, but I can tell you that a 3.5 GPA is below the 25th percentile for the VAST majority of the T14, and the 170 is median-at-best at most of the T14. LSP gives you straight "DENY" down to Penn, and only one "STRONG CONSIDER" (Cornell) in the top 14, and that's WITHOUT taking a serious academic/integrity offense into consideration. Especially if you are in undergrad or only a couple years out, I think you need to do one or more of the following: RETAKE, write a hell of an addendum about the conduct, get an outrageously good letter of recommendation, revise expectations downward. There are plenty of fine schools ranked 15-30.

Cupidity wrote:With your numbers, I would strongly encourage you to give serious consideration to the T-30. If you are lucky and make it into one of the T-14 great, but I would start planning lower. Your LSAT will enable you to get $$, and in this economy, a T-30 w/ half the debt isn't a bad option.

Consider GWU's full-ride guaranteed ED program, schools like BU, BC, UMinn, Notre Dame, and WUSTL. You are a splitter, and one of them will give you money. If T-14 is your major hope....ED to UVA or GULC, both are splitter receptive for ED.

justadude55 wrote:

Cupidity wrote:With your numbers, I would strongly encourage you to give serious consideration to the T-30. If you are lucky and make it into one of the T-14 great, but I would start planning lower. Your LSAT will enable you to get $$, and in this economy, a T-30 w/ half the debt isn't a bad option.

Consider GWU's full-ride guaranteed ED program, schools like BU, BC, UMinn, Notre Dame, and WUSTL. You are a splitter, and one of them will give you money. If T-14 is your major hope....ED to UVA or GULC, both are splitter receptive for ED.

i read a post where a person with a record, but a 2.8 gpa and 162 lsat were denied admission to even tier 4 schools. my #'s are a significant notch better, but can i face similar circumstance in that i'll get into a school, but one outside the top 50s?

justadude55 wrote:

Cupidity wrote:With your numbers, I would strongly encourage you to give serious consideration to the T-30. If you are lucky and make it into one of the T-14 great, but I would start planning lower. Your LSAT will enable you to get $$, and in this economy, a T-30 w/ half the debt isn't a bad option.

Consider GWU's full-ride guaranteed ED program, schools like BU, BC, UMinn, Notre Dame, and WUSTL. You are a splitter, and one of them will give you money. If T-14 is your major hope....ED to UVA or GULC, both are splitter receptive for ED.

i read a post where a person with a record, but a 2.8 gpa and 162 lsat were denied admission to even tier 4 schools. my #'s are a significant notch better, but can i face similar circumstances?

merichard87 wrote:Does ~170 and >3.5 actually mean a 168/9 and 3.3/4?

justadude55 wrote:Hey I have a 3.55 and 167 LSAT (only took once; even schools that say they take the higher sport admit to considering all scores so i think it's too risky to retake + im lazy... i got the 167 with minimal studying). i have pretty good LOR's, and in my opinion a strong personal statement (i used my personal statement to get me into a T-30 undergrad without the proper #'s as a white kid).

justadude55 wrote:hey, i'm applying to law school with an lsat ~170 and a gpa of >3.5 from a t-30 undergrad, but was suspended for a yr for violating a university conduct policy and submitting false evidence aimed at discrediting the other party.

... i am self sufficient at 24, paying for school and helping out my younger siblings financially.

justadude55 wrote:i'm in my late 20s, and a few years removed from college.

2ofspades wrote:If you have presented yourself accurately, then I don't think there is any way to predict your results. I think your cycle will depend entirely on how effectively you can persuade your readers to have confidence in you as a person. You have a record, and you are owning up to it. At the same time, you support your kid brother/sister. That shows character. Give yourself the best shot you can, apply broadly, and transmit your applications before your second score is available.

Also, I would suggest visiting the admissions offices of any nearby schools you are applying to wherever they allow you to see an admissions officer. Some schools will let you see someone on a walk-in basis, and some will even schedule appointments for applicants to visit.

2ofspades wrote:If you have presented yourself accurately, then I don't think there is any way to predict your results. I think your cycle will depend entirely on how effectively you can persuade your readers to have confidence in you as a person. You have a record, and you are owning up to it. At the same time, you support your kid brother/sister. That shows character. Give yourself the best shot you can, apply broadly, and transmit your applications before your second score is available.

Also, I would suggest visiting the admissions offices of any nearby schools you are applying to wherever they allow you to see an admissions officer. Some schools will let you see someone on a walk-in basis, and some will even schedule appointments for applicants to visit.

justadude55 wrote:re: Admissions Officer -- so I take up this person's day by coming in, and telling them all my baggage?

justadude55 wrote:would this even be the same one who reads my app?

2ofspades wrote:

justadude55 wrote:re: Admissions Officer -- so I take up this person's day by coming in, and telling them all my baggage?

No. If you can visit your top few choices, I would say you plan to visit and you would like to see an officer. If they see you, then I would say you wrote about a suspension and ask if you can provide any additional information, leave it, and then have a short, pleasant conversation by asking a few informed questions about the school. Visiting wouldn't affect decisions for most any applicant - but it can make a difference when a school can't decide whether to admit or deny based on soft factors. At least, that was my experience. It helps them understand you better as a person and is a demonstration of interest in the school.

justadude55 wrote:would this even be the same one who reads my app?

Who reads your application will vary by school, but the assistant directors (who are usually the officers that see applicants) have access to your file and work closely with the admissions dean. At schools that see visitors, they make notes in your file about what questions you asked and how you came across.

tkgrrett wrote:

justadude55 wrote:

Cupidity wrote:With your numbers, I would strongly encourage you to give serious consideration to the T-30. If you are lucky and make it into one of the T-14 great, but I would start planning lower. Your LSAT will enable you to get $$, and in this economy, a T-30 w/ half the debt isn't a bad option.

Consider GWU's full-ride guaranteed ED program, schools like BU, BC, UMinn, Notre Dame, and WUSTL. You are a splitter, and one of them will give you money. If T-14 is your major hope....ED to UVA or GULC, both are splitter receptive for ED.

i read a post where a person with a record, but a 2.8 gpa and 162 lsat were denied admission to even tier 4 schools. my #'s are a significant notch better, but can i face similar circumstances?

No, that person probably had multiple felonies or 3+ DUIs.